posted
Boy Opera is 9 and in the fourth grade. He hasn't seemed very happy about school for the last month or so. About 2 weeks ago he complained that a lot of the kids were mean, so we talked about strategies for ignoring them, etc.
It appears that he's still having problems. For some reason we got into a discussion about home schooling and he asked why I didn't home school him. I replied that I didn't think he would like it very much as he would miss interacting with all the kids at school. His reply was that he would like to be homeschooled because the kids at school are mean.
Boy Opera has always had a small circle of friends; he's pretty picky about who he'll hang around. He does have one very best friend this year who has been over to our house to play, etc.
He says that at school kids call him names and bug him. He also said that some kids made out a "handsome boys/girls and ugly boys/girls" list and he was put on the ugly list. We had the standard talk about how bullies bully because they feel bad inside and want others to feel bad too. We also talked about ignoring them and the fact that their opinion doesn't matter. I also tried to empathize by telling him that I remember being teased when I was younger as well. I suggested that he could talk to the school counselor because she might be helpful, but he doesn't want to.
Any suggestions would be highly appreciated. I know that children are often mean, and that teasing is a fact of life. However, it seems to have been going on for awhile and Boy Opera was trying to hold back tears as we talked. Thanks.
posted
Space Opera, I wish I had had an effective solution for that kind of stuff when I was in grade school. I had a few bullies lock in on me over the years and it wasn't much fun. Every once in a while I managed to inspire the ire of the "in" group, which was much more brutal. Luckily, I never got beat up, just teased and taunted. It was hard to take and I never really got "above" it until long after I graduated. However, I doubt that my experience was very harsh compared to the brutal treatment some kids receive, and I consider myself lucky that I didn't get punished more for my social ineptitude.
I think what helped me not break and sink to their level more was a strong sense of identity that acceptance in my family gave me. Name-calling wasn't going to seriously alter my view of who I was, and I never felt the need to become someone else to gain acceptance. If I hadn't had strong family support and a good home life I might have been affected more.
He does have to learn how to take it. I wouldn't pull him from school unless he's undergoing abuse that has you concerned for his safety. I would, however, continue to reinforce his identity at home and give him a good, solid base of support.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Just make sure you compliment him at home, make sure he knows he's loved. I have no suggestions for dealing with in school bullying, but I know that for me one of the hardest parts about incurring the hatred of almost all of my classmates was that I felt to ... well I was basically praise starved. I would spend all day having names thrown at me, and when I came home it would've been good to have had some more non-insults going on. Not that I was insulted at home, I had a great home and great parents, but my family doesn't really deal with emotions in a big way, and I think it would've helped to have had more positive attention at home, in other words, give him a place where he knows he's welcome and should be happy.
posted
I would be tempted to give the teacher a call and ask her to look out for the bullying. Its good that he has a few close friends. Encourage him to play with them and remind him that there are kids who like him.
Posts: 1777 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
When I was a bit younger than that I was getting picked on.
My parents sent me to Karate school. That way I could defend myself from the more violent kids, and learn how to defend myself without violence.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Yes, I think it would be good to tell the school about the problem, but try to keep it simple and unknown.
Look, it's simple, if the kids know who's fault it is for their fun to be ruined, they make the trouble continue tenfold. If they don't know, nothing worse happens and it stays the same.
I think it's best just to have the teacher keep an eye on the bullies, not tell her to discipline them right out. If a bully is caught doing it, they have no excuse, if they are just told they've been doing it, they know they've been told on.
So basically, I'd say tell the school that you kid is having a problem, but try not to have some sort of obvious enforcement happen. That way there is little or no suspicion.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I know from 13 years of personal experience (K-12), the ignoring strategy is pure BS. Yes, being ignored will temporarily frustrate bullies, but that only causes them to increase the pressure, and the bullied will eventually crack 100% of the time. The only possible way to stop it is to attack the source. Go to the parents and pray that works because though I doubt that it will, nothing else will help in the long run. Frankly the key is to survive elementry and middle school with a few close friends and then the somewhat increased maturity of high schoolers will be like a walk in the park.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Space Opera, First, read the student handbook. What is their policy on bullying? I would speak first to the teacher, and if you get any sort of "kids will be kids" response, take issue with that. Next, go to the guidance counselor or the principal. Ask what sort of mediation they do for this kind of bullying. I agree that ignoring works to a certian point, and then it can be dangerous, as the bully will often up the ante. Also, ask HIM what he would want to happen, if he could have it all work out his way. Take him very seriously. I know you are, but don't let it go if they give you the brush-off. If he is being bullied, others are too.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Space Opera, I'm sorry that Boy Opera is having a hard time. There has been a lot of development in "bully-proofing" over that past few years. Here is one great article that I found:
quote:Some of the toughest problems parents must deal with happen right on the school playground where teasing, bullying and mean-spirited kids abound. There seems to be an epidemic of mean-acting kids these days. In fact, the National Education Association estimates that 160,000 children skip school every day because they fear being attacked or intimidated by other students. While we can’t prevent the pain insults can cause, we can lessen our kids’ chances of becoming victims. In my new book, Building Moral Intelligence: The Seven Essential Virtues That Teach Kids to Do the Right Thing, I tell parents the best thing to do is teach our kids how to deal with their tormentors. Doing so will show them there are ways to resolve conflicts without losing face or resorting to violence and will boost their confidence. So the next time your child is upset from teasing, here are a few ideas I suggest you do:
1. Listen and gather facts. The first step is often the hardest for parents: listen to your child’s whole story without interrupting. Your goal is to try to figure out what happened, who was involved, where and when the teasing took place, and why your child was teased. Unfortunately, teasing is a part of growing up, but some kids seem to get more than their fair share of insults. If your child appears to be in no immediate danger, keep listening to find out how she reacts to the bullying. By knowing what reaction didn’t stop the bully, you can offer your child a more effective option.
2. Teach a bully-proofing strategy. What may work with one child may not with another, so it’s best to discuss a range of options and then choose the one or two your child feels most comfortable with. Here are six of the most successful strategies to help kids defend themselves:
Assert yourself. Teach your child to face the bully by standing tall and using a strong voice. Your child should name the bullying behavior and tell the aggressor to stop: “That’s teasing. Stop it.” or “Stop making fun of me. It’s mean.”
Question the response. Ann Bishop, who teaches violence prevention curriculums, tells her students to respond to an insult with a nondefensive question: “Why would you say that?” or “Why would you want to tell me I am dumb (or fat) and hurt my feelings?”
Use “I want.” Communication experts suggest teaching your child to address the bully beginning with “I want” and say firmly what he wants changed: “I want you to leave me along.” or “I want you to stop teasing me.”
Agree with the teaser. Consider helping your child create a statement agreeing with her teaser. Teaser: “You’re dumb.” Child: “Yeah, but I’m good at it.” or Teaser: “Hey, four eyes.” Child: “You’re right, my eyesight is poor.”
Ignore it. Bullies love it when their teasing upsets their victims, so help your child find a way to not let his tormentor get to him. A group of fifth graders told me ways they ignore their teasers: “Pretend they’re invisible,” “Walk away without looking at them,” “Quickly look at something else and laugh,” and “Look completely uninterested.”
Make Fun of the Teasing. Fred Frankel, author of Good Friends Are Hard to Find suggests victims answer every tease with a reply, but not tease back. The teasing often stops, Frankel says, because the child lets the tormentor know he’s not going to let the teasing get to him (even if it does). Suppose the teaser says, “You’re stupid.” The child says a rehearsed comeback such as: “Really?” Other comebacks could be: “So?,” “You don’t say,” “And your point is?,” or “Thanks for telling me.”
3. Rehearse the strategy with your child. Once you choose a technique, rehearse it together so your child is comfortable trying it. The trick is for your child to deliver it assuredly to the bully--and that takes practice. Explain that though he has the right to feel angry, it’s not okay to let it get out of control. Besides, anger just fuels the bully. Try teaching your child the CALM approach to defueling the tormentor.
C - Cool down. When you confront the bully, stay calm and always in control. Don’t let him think he’s getting to you. If you need to calm down, count to twenty slowly inside your head or say to yourself, “Chill out!” And most importantly: tell your child to always get help whenever there is a chance she might be injured.
A - Assert yourself. Try the strategy with the bully just like you practiced.
L - Look at the teaser straight in the eye. Appear confident, hold your head high and stand tall.
M - Mean it! Use a firm, strong voice. Say what you feel, but don’t be insulting, threaten or tease back.
Final Thoughts Like it or not, most kids are bound to encounter children who are deliberately mean. By teaching kids effective ways to respond to verbal abuse, we can reduce their chances of being victims as well as helping them learn how to cope more successfully with future adversities. Of course, no child should ever have to deal with ongoing teasing, meanness and harassment. It’s up to adults and kids alike to take an active stand against bullying and stress that cruelty is always unacceptable.
posted
If it is the joking kind, have your kid learn how to throw a quip back. Not the whiney kind well I'm better kind
A: four eyes B: Well, four is better than two!
but the self depreciating kind
A: four eyes B: Dang, I thought I had 5 eyes... must have lost one of them
Self depreciating humor when he already has low self esteem? It might sound a bit counter intuitive, but by doing this he makes it so it is no longer fun to tease him. The kids start to laugh truly with him, rather than at him. The positive attention gets directed at him, and away from the bullies. He will percieve that the attention has become positive for him, as well. Those background kids that were merely followers may start to become more friendly with him.
Couple this with counselling him to be kind to others, no matter what. This doesn't mean giving in to other people's requests. It is about compassion for their feelings. He knows what it is like to be sad, he can have compassion on other children even if they are being mean. Teach him that even the most awful kid out there feels sad or lonely or scared at some time.
Teaching him the kind of humor that works against bullying and teasing might take a while, and you have to strike a balance. He shouldn't become a door mat.
But we've seen results in teaching this to my oldest daughter.
This last year, her 5th grade teacher told us that over the past year she'd been a bridge between several of the cliques that had formed in the class, because she seemed to get along with everyone. Wow, that was something better to hear than her improvement in grades.
Posts: 438 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Whew, that is a tough one to grow through as a kid. I've been there, sadly on both sides of the fence.
Bullying comes from a very deep-seated dislike of self, whether it is physical or emotional or verbal bullying. Sadly, it's part of the human nature to establish pecking orders. Some folks just have it hard-wired into them to tear down others to build themself up.
Basically, my advice is to keep the home life as steady and strong as it has always been, for that is what we all have to butress ourselves with when times are tough. It also helps to let the kid know how much they do mean to you and how much they are a valued part of the family.
You see, as he grows, he's going to need that. At nine a kid is one size and at 12 he very well might be a completely different one. He might be smaller and easier to pick on now, so that's what other kids are doing. A few years down the road, he might be the larger kid, and it won't be pretty if he decides that turning the tables is called for.
Encourage the friends, especially the good ones. They are his best defense now and in the future. Good friends can keep you grounded and growing.
Sorry, this is a really emotional topic for me, and one that has really been on my mind a lot here of lates. Gonna have to stop for a bit and figure out what I ought to say.
Posts: 472 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:Ignore it. Bullies love it when their teasing upsets their victims, so help your child find a way to not let his tormentor get to him. A group of fifth graders told me ways they ignore their teasers: “Pretend they’re invisible,” “Walk away without looking at them,” “Quickly look at something else and laugh,” and “Look completely uninterested.”
I have to give this one a thumbs down from experience. In my experience, it only made them do really nasty things that couldn't be ignored.
It might be worth trying, but it's very discouraging to get this kind of advice and find out it doesn't work - it can make the child feel abandoned.
posted
The best weapon against bullies is self confidence. Build up Boy Opera's confidence by finding him a sport or hobby he excels in. Things like little league, drama club, writer's workshop, etc are all good choices. This strategy has three benefits:
1. Once Boy Opera feels he is good at something, he wouldn't care as much about what people at school say about him.
2. His sport/hobby will help him meet other kids who share the same interest. Like NFL said, you don't need a ton of friends, just a few good ones.
3. By meeting people outside of school, he will learn that there is a great big world out there besides high school. I was a debater in high school and I was roaming college campuses and hanging out with college students when I was in the 9th grade. Getting to know the world outside of school gave me a better perspective of the meaningless popularity contests back in high school.
Unless Boy Opera is getting physically harmed, I don't think complaining to school officials is the way to go. Your son will face bullies all his life. He needs to learn how to deal with his problems and having daddy step in to fix things will not help his long term development.
Edited to add:
Is there anything you can do to improve your son's appearance? I'm not saying you should get him $80 designer jeans or anything, but sometimes a new hair cut or 2-3 extra sets of cooler clothing will help at least a little.
posted
I agree that you should call the school even if your son doesn't want you to.
Also, my understanding of the bullying mechanism may be incomplete, but I read something a while ago that made it clear to me why I had been bullied as a child: I called attention to myself in a way that signalled the bullies that I "deserved" to be bullied.
That is, I told stories about the rough time I was going through at the time (my father had just died).
Bullies often have abusive parents who teach their children that if they whine or call attention to their problems they "deserve" to be abused. "You think you've got it rough, I'll show you rough!" "Stop crying, you're asking for it!" and so forth. To a child of abuse, the kind of behavior that calls down abuse on them means that their victim is "asking for it."
Of course, to children who aren't being abused, this reaction makes no sense, and although telling the bully that they are being unfair only calls down more abuse, the victim keeps doing it because they can't understand the mentality of the bully.
I generally think that teachers aren't usually trained to understand this mechanism very well. It seems to me that the school psychologist is better able to determine the correct course of action (although I've known some of them who've done a lousy job also, but they're the better bet). In any case, call the school, and see if you can find out who is best able to take care of it.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I heartily disagree with the suggestions to call in the school officials, unless Boy Opera is actually in physical danger. I used to tell my mom about problems I was having at school when I was little (I'm 23 now), and she would always take them to the teacher, the counselor, sometimes even the principal. I was always humiliated, and begged her not to complain to them, I just wanted to tell her about it. She didn't stop, because she knew what was best for me, and after a few more humiliations, I stopped telling her anything important about me. Ever.
I like most of vwiggin's suggestions, especially building up his confidence with other groups of kids. And, though I don't know how feasible it is to teach him how to use self-deprecating humor in small doses, I do think that it would take away the bullies' interest in tormenting him. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I'm really in the "call the school" camp. One of my sons was bullied in seventh grade, and I reluctantly called the school. They acted immediately. There is a peer mediation process in this particular middle school. It worked very well for us. In fact, in eighth grade that same son saw another child being bullied, and as soon as he had a chance, he kind of suggested/dragged the kid to the same counselor he'd talked to the year before. It was very confidence building for him to KNOW that the adults were going to step in and make sure that injustices did not occur.
I profoundly disagree with the idea of "there will always be bullies; we should teach them to be tough." Sure, we should teach them to be tough. But we should always teach them that the strong (in this case the parents and teachers) should always look out for the smaller, younger, less socially competent -- however you want to describe them. There will always be a lot of things. Do we just say "oh, there will always be strong sun; let your skin get tough."? This kid is nine. Grownups can and should help him.
posted
In my experience, grownups always overreacted and made the problems much worse. I was completely isolated from all peers by the time I was in 7th grade.
I guess it really depends on how mature and involved in your son's problems they are. If they half-assedly snap at the bullies to stop it, because Boy Opera's mommy said to, and because they aren't getting paid enough to deal with this, and they have a headache....
Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I thought most of that article quoted above was pure wishful thinking schlock. I would also go along with Zeugma here in saying that calling the school about it isn't going to help. If they knew what to do about bullying, they would have eradicated it already.
I got picked on partly because I am not a fast thinker in a tough situation. When confronted, I go pale, my mind goes blank, and I even stutter a little. However, I watched other kids come up with witty comebacks and get laughed to tears.
It doesn't have to be the classic bully that's giving Boy Opera trouble. In my experience it's usually the in group, the popular bunch, and they gang up on anyone who doesn't quite fit in. Making a handsome/ugly list isn't the province of the beady-eyed bully. It's part of the group mentality of that very exclusive popular bunch who have to continually reinforce their own superiority. At the 4th grade level, they're probably also the teacher's pets because rebellion isn't cool yet.
The best defense, IMO, is friends, smarts, and sports ability. That isn't the only defense, but as I recall that kind of shielded you from being the loner.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
It sounds kind of bad, I guess, but one of the things that did help me feel better about it was being constantly told that the kids who are popular and mean in school end up pumping gas when they get older, while the nerdy picked-on kids rule the world. It's not 100% true, of course, and it probably helped distance me even more from my peers, but it did take the edge off the teasing. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Sharpie, I'm glad to hear that you're son had a positive experience with his school counselor. Can you give us more details about how the peer mediation process worked and how it helped your son?
I'm not advocating that grownups should not help their kids. I'm just skeptical that involving school officials would help get rid of the teasing. When your son grows up and he is getting bullied by his employer/spouse/neighbors, who does he turn to then?
Even if the school officials can stop the teasing, is that the most important thing here? The ability to deal with criticism is one of the most important lessons of life. I think learning how to shrug off or defend against unjust criticism is more important than superficially shutting up the bullies.
My cousin Chris gets teased a lot because his mother loves to dress him in these preppy sweater vests. When I went to pick him up from school last week, I witnessed this exchange:
Bully: "That shirt is so girly. What are you, gay?"
Chris: "Why, you wanna go out?"
Bully: *totally confused* "Ummm... no dude, you want to go out with me, you ARE gay!"
Chris: "I prefer women thank you. But what is all this anger against Gay people. Are you like some kind of bigot or something?"
posted
Okay, I'd like to suggest that what Space Opera described here doesn't sound like bullying at all. It doesn't sound like it is being done by bullies, but rather by his class in general.
It sounds much more like a situation where he's been labeled by his class as an outsider, which is an entirely different sort of problem.
Posts: 2432 | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Our school has a very strict anti-bullying policy, and it works pretty well. We do not have a mediation program, unfortunately. I have wanted to get one in there for years. We do, however, have wonderful teachers and administrators, who support kids who are being picked on. All kids learn what bullying is, and know that there are consequences for doing it.
What I want to know is, why is his teacher allowing it to happen, if it is happening in his class?
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
You know, I'm trying to think back to how I diffused the situations with bullies I encountered. For the most part I did it by being friends with pretty much everyone. Most of the bullies left me alone, either because someone they looked up to liked me, or because someone they were afraid of liked me. I realize that that doesn't help much with Boy Opera, since something like that is more of a knack than a learnable skill, unfortunately.
Hmmm...how would you say his self esteem (and with it, general level of self confidence) is? In my experience, a person who exudes confidence deals with a lot fewer bullies than someone who doesn't. Does Boy Opera have any interest in martial arts (preferably a non-violent one such as Aikido, but that could just be my personal bias talking)? Developing a skill like that can do wonders for a kid's sense of self worth, and can also be handy if the bullies attempt to escalate things to the physical level.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
So say a friend calls me on the phone, fairly distraught, and tells me that she'd rather not work at her office any more, that there are several people harassing her and making her work environment just terrible. Even lunch is unpleasant, because the coworkers taunt her. Is my first response to her: oh, just ignore them, they're just bullies, they have low self-esteem? No, I would tell her to go to human resources, her boss, their boss, maybe even a lawyer. I'd be furious on her behalf. But when a nine-year-old or a twelve-year-old tells me basically the same thing, I'm supposed to tell him to buck up, kid? Sorry, that does not fly with me.
Don't give the kid the message: "don't make waves, don't cause trouble." Bullying other people is wrong. It is absolutely okay for a kid (and his advocates) to call attention to it and to try to make it stop.
I agree so much that confidence is key, but honestly, I think a child gets a whole lot of confidence when he knows absolutely that his parents will go to bat for him. I have heard people say, "oh, but you can't fight his battles for him." Who says??? If it were a bear, we wouldn't expect him to fight it alone. We would circle around him, protect him, help him. Being bullied in fourth grade and feeling scared to go to school is a huge problem. Somebody somewhere came up with the idea that kids should fight stuff like this on their own, and I will fight that notion every time I encounter it.
(My kids are all confident, easy-going teenagers now, by the way, lest anyone imagine them cowering in the basement waiting for Mommy to protect them )
Posts: 628 | Registered: Nov 1999
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quote: Assert yourself. Teach your child to face the bully by standing tall and using a strong voice. Your child should name the bullying behavior and tell the aggressor to stop: “That’s teasing. Stop it.” or “Stop making fun of me. It’s mean.”
posted
I was bullied in school too, and I think you should be bringing in the authorities. However, the subtler the bullying, the more difficult it is to do so. Any adult who even halfway belongs in a school will come down hard on physical bullying. Name-calling is tougher, though I was always fortunate to have school counselors who understood how devastating it can be to a kid, and were prepared to explain it to other kids. "Pretty/ugly" lists are definitely in this category, and have the advantage of having tangible proof. If your school is moderately competent, they can certainly put a stop to this sort of thing.
But unfortunately, there are subtler ways of ostracising someone. Looks, giggles as someone walks by, the simple expedient of not inviting to parties - none of these can really be addressed by authority. You cannot force people to be friends - a problem that applies right up to the international level, as witness Serbia. For such things, one approach that worked for me was to repeat "I do not care about them. They are vastly stupid people. Who cares what they think?" And I would concentrate on my friends and the cool stuff I did with them. I would note that this is only a temporary tactic, but it got me through years 13-15 and into schools where intelligence was valued and I was popular, or at least not ostracised.
Another approach little Opera might try is deterrence. I was always small for my age and not good at fighting, plus the people picking on me were usually older than me anyway. But if he has no such handicaps, hurting people is a viable approach. He doesn't have to win the fight; he can even start it. No matter who starts it or gets hurt, a fight brings attention by school officials, which bullies do not enjoy. Besides, in my experience both parties to a fight get punished equally, at least if the physical aggressor has a shred of justification. Which is clearly better than little Opera being the only one hurt. He doesn't have to come out ahead; he just has to be willing to pay a price to make bothering him more trouble than it's worth. Kind of like nuclear deterrence, a metaphor I'm sure will appeal to a boy his age.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I'm going to talk some more with Boy Opera tomorrow and attempt to get some more details. My husband and I were talking tonight, and he said he thinks our son is being picked on because he's "nice." He said when he was in school he was teased also and for what he feels is the same reason - lack of the killer mean streak. Boy Opera is incredibly mindful of others feelings. I have never seen him be mean to an animal or a person, and he's told me stories of sticking up for other people who were being picked on at his old school.
As far as appearance goes, I don't think it has anything to do with a haircut or clothes, as someone suggested changing. He wears namebrand clothes that are probably nicer than 95 percent of the kids in the school. He has always had a ton of self confidence until recently when he's gotten down about being picked on. The reason he has a small circle of friends is because he has always carved his own path and not gone along with the crowd. He doesn't worry about what's "in style." He likes what he likes. I asked the teacher about his social development at our recent conference and she said he is very well-liked and gets along with everyone.
Keep the thoughts coming, please. I really appreciate all the suggestions. I haven't decided exactly what to do yet but I've definately gotten some ideas.
posted
I wish I could offer the one guaranteed solution to fix the problem, but since he's not trying to be friends with the bullies, my advice is: "So what?"
The bullies can only be mean if you actually care what they have to say. How's the cliche go? Water off a duck's back?
It's a difficult concept to understand, especially for a young child, but see if you can explain the idea that a bully's opinion isn't important to him. You might take the "well, not everyone likes the same thing approach and that upsets some people. But what he does or doesn't like shouldn't bother you."
If he's being physically threatened, all bets are off and you/he needs to speak with someone in charge. Violence today is a far cry from what bullying used to be.
And I think combat lessons would only serve to escalate the potential for a bad situation to grow worse - especially in the post-Columbine period of school safety concerns.
posted
Sounds like you have a great kid there Space Opera.
Sharpie, none of us are suggesting that parents should take a "hands off" approach. We all think Space Opera should get involved by teaching Boy Opera how to deal effectively with bullies. The point of contention is whether asking the school officials is the best way to solve the problem.
quote:Even lunch is unpleasant, because the coworkers taunt her. Is my first response to her: oh, just ignore them, they're just bullies, they have low self-esteem? No, I would tell her to go to human resources, her boss, their boss, maybe even a lawyer.
What would that accomplish? If the boss reprimands all of your friend's coworkers, would that make her life easier at work? I doubt it. The overt teasing may stop, but the subtle forms of social ostricization is hard to monitor and even harder to eradicate.
Would your hypothetical friend ever be considered for a leadership position at work? Among her coworkers she will always be known as a snitch, and her boss will remember that she was disliked by her peers.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Fighting back violently and/or attempting to get a teacher to end it are guaranteed ways to make the problem worse. Those strategies are ineffective at best at combating individual bullies, and serve only to alienate the person fighting back when it's a whole group making fun of him.
The real solution, I think, is what you've already done. It's a matter of learning to remain both friendly and confident when these problems occur, and I think it's an important life lesson. If you aren't confident, they will walk all over you. If you aren't friendly, they will dislike you for the same reason you might dislike them.
But then I have never learned how to get everyone to like me. I have no idea how you can really avoid getting put on the bad side of the sort of lists your son was mentioning. I'm not sure I (or anyone else here) will really be able to answer that question.
----
Also, based on the fact that things seemed fine until just recently, I'd look into the possibility that something specific happened to cause the other kids to start acting this way. You son might not even know what it is - those sort of things can be subtle, I think.
posted
While it's true that "being picked on" can be a general social thing, rather than physical bullying, it's also possible that your son is trying to downplay the level of bullying he's experiencing. I certainly did.
Again I'll say that the school psychologist is probably the best person to talk to. It may be more important for your son to talk to the psychologist than for the psychologist to try to deal with the bully. Your son may open up more to someone other than his parents, and the psychologist is may discover that your son is being physically bullied. You don't want to let that go unnoticed, if it's happening.
Also, as I explained in the previous post, your child's behavior may be stimulating the bullies in a way that most people don't consider, the psychologist is more likely to be able to tell if this is the case and suggest alternate behaviors to counter it.
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And I must say, there really is some truth to the "nerds" will rule the world after school. I remember running into my chief tormenter when I was 21. I had been going to college, learning sound engineering, and had the opportunity to do some pretty fun and exciting things. She was flipping burgers. And had been since high school graduation.
Posts: 5609 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:The bullies can only be mean if you actually care what they have to say. How's the cliche go? Water off a duck's back?
TMedina...I have to say that I can't agree with this. "Sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is one of the biggest lies ever perpetuated.
Space Opera...I got teased all the time when I was in school, and the thing that got me through it was the unconditional love I got at home. No matter what the kids at school said to me, my parents always made sure I knew that I was fine just the way I was. And that made all the difference in the world.
However, I do think I come down on the side of the school of thought that the school should know about this. I don't buy the "kids will be kids" argument at all. Just becuse teasing and bullying is "what kids do", doesn't mean it's right. If it is let go on, the natural outcomes are things like the headline I saw somewhere on the 'net yesterday or today, to the effect that being "nice" will cripple a person's career advancement. I didn't read the whole article, but the theory seemed to be that if you want to get ahead in business (and, by extension, in life), you have to be a jerk. That attitude has to stop somewhere, and in the schools is a good place to start stopping it.
My two cents' worth.
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your link has extra http in it and a couple of slashes at the end - my browser kept going to microsoft.com. Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I say learn as much about the situation as possible. I think in many situations, people shouldn't use the word bullying, but torturing. If school is truly torture for him, then I think that homeschooling should be considered an option.
Hopefully, it's not that bad- and Boy Opera can still maintain his self-esteem by enjoying other aspects of life, as many have already stated.
I was truly tortured as a kid in one class. But thank goodness, it was restricted to that one class. I was a spunky, I don't care what anybody thinks of me kinda kid, and I managed to get out mostly unscathed. But if that had been going on in all, or even most, of my classes, I don't think I would have made it out ok. So getting a good idea of the extent of the bullying would be very helpful.
To add to this already expressed sentiment- ignoring DOES NOT help.
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posted
LMA - it's the best solution I could manage. As a (large) male, any defensive interaction, verbal or physical, could easily have escalated into violence which would have been much worse.
If Opera Jr. is witty, he'll learn to return fire and depending on the bullies, that may be the end of it. If he ignores them, they may get bored and move on, or they might escalate to more direct action.
Without knowing the specific aggressors and at least a hint at the motivation, it is difficult to formulate a specific and effective response.
posted
You may want to change his name from Boy Opera to smoething else.
Home Schooling is bad, bad, bad. Kids get almost no social skills, which is bad, bad, bad.
Bullies will be all around the world from age 2 to 102, so the kids got to learn to deal with them.
He needs to know that he IS special, cool, and worthy anywhere he goes, and that kids only make fun of him to look cool in front of other kids because they don't know how to win the crowd any other way.
If they push him too far, tell him to kick their ass.
It's the only way to go.
And even if he doesn't win the fight, he'll win respect for himself, and from some of the kids.
Posts: 2752 | Registered: Feb 2001
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is he involved in something like band, or sports, or some school group where he actively participates and enjoys his work?
That would help with his confidence, and allow other kids to watch the products of something he is good at?
Posts: 2752 | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote: Home Schooling is bad, bad, bad. Kids get almost no social skills, which is bad, bad, bad.
While I'm the first to admit there are disadvantages to homeschooling, and socialization is an issue, I'd suggest that I probably have better social skills than you do Thor, at least given the coherency of your posts on hatrack. Thanks for invalidating my entire life in one sweeping, inaccurate statement.
posted
Thanks again for all of the wonderful responses. Mr. Opera and I have continued to discuss this at length. I think right now the best thing we can do for our son is continue to build his self-esteem. He's involved in Cub Scouts and 4-H, so those are both great for him. I'm going to continue checking in with him - one thing I'm grateful for is that he feels comfortable enough to talk about it. Mr. Opera posited last night that perhaps a lot of it might just be normal kid meanness, and that Boy Opera isn't used to that. Two years ago he was told to "shut up" by his grandfather and he burst out crying, since we don't use that word in our house. So some of it might be that he's shocked by the way the kids at school behave. Anyway, he said there were no problems yesterday, so hopefully the situation will keep improving.
posted
One thing to keep in mind as well is that in the social environments we find ourselves in, our "peers" and their approvals/disapprovals have large effects on how we look at ourselves and view others.
I would recommed that you help build and nurture his "friendships" with children his own age. Who does he "hang out with" and go "play" with?
It's very important that children have a confidant on their level.
I think it's great to see a child open up to a parent, but I also find it unfortunate that that alot of times is the only relationship they can turn to when expressing themselves.
That was something that jumped out at me in your original post. A lack of outside friendships. I could be totally wrong (and please tell me if that is true) but someone who has strong friends or some friendship bonds is not someone who would request to be home schooled.
That's about all the advice I could give without knowing more (and unless you feel comfortable revealing more, you shouldn't).
So basically it seems that his only connection to his peers is through school, which is a negative at the moment. I would recommend placing him in environments outside of school with other peers and encourage a positive relationship/friendship with his peers.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
We've been through this with Natalie a lot. she broke down and cried and begged me to homeschool her, because school was pointless, she never learned anything good anyway, and everybody hated her.
Kids in her age group are prone to over-dramatization and wild mood swings, of course. When she was sick with a stomach virus and had to stay home from school no less than four kids called her to find out how she was doing - and two of them did it from school, before they even got home.
The same child who thinks she never learns anything and school is boring and stupid comes home raving about how she made it to the finals in the class chess tournament and how her gifted class is studying the first olympics and she was chosen to be on the team from Athens.
Now, I'm not suggesting that Boy Opera is just going through a moody period or that his experiences are at all the same as hers. But, sometimes it helps to give the situation some room to develop before running to the school. Things change so rapidly in your life when you're eight - what you hate today may be your favorite thing tomorrow.
quote:"Sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is one of the biggest lies ever perpetuated
So true, lma. I wish words didn't hurt, i'd probably have a lot more money because I wouldn't be spending it on therapy. My stepfather only physically assaulted me twice - but the verbal assaults were much more harmful and I fight almost daily to not fall into the trap of believing the things he said about me.
My advice is do what you're doing - don't act too hastily (funny coming from me - i'm one of the biggest over-reactors in the world) and continue to listen and love him and support him as much as possible.
My therapist talked about how frustrating it was to sit and listen to my pre-teen daughter regale me with stories of how so-and-do likes this person, and how these two friends had a fight and aren't talking, and how this person talked her mom into letting her cut her hair but now she hates it.... I listen, and I pay attention, but inside I want to scream "This is so insignificant! Why are you upset and worried about all these things, Natalie - they don't really matter!"
But they DO matter. What I think is insignificant and silly is HER WORLD. It's where she lives, it's what she experiences, it's what she cares and worries about. If I don't care about it, I invalidate part of who she is. So I make a point to remember that Heather and Haley were having a spat yesterday and ask about it when she comes home today. I remember that Jessica just got her ears pierced, so I'm prepared when she whines to tell her "I'm not Jessica's mother, and just because she lets her get her ears pierced doesn't mean I have to let you get yours."
You obviously listen to him and care about what's happening to him and he feels comfortable sharing his experiences and his feelings with you - good for you and your hubby! He's got some tough roads ahead of him, things won't get eaiser in middle school and high school, they'll get harder. But, he's got good parents, so he's ahead of the game.
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