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We are transitioning Sophie over to her crib after having her sleeping in a cradle next to the bed. This was wonderful for me because all I needed to do was roll over and grab her and deposit her without ever leaving the warm comfort of my bed. However, I am worried now that she is starting to roll that she will roll out of the cradle and so have been putting her to sleep in the crib.
The first night, she slept until 3am (her "usual" night feeding) and then I put her in the cradle till morning. The second night she was up at midnight and when I put her in the cradle she woke up every hour after that. Last night she woke up at midnight and would NOT go back to sleep in the crib. As soon as I set her down, she would wake back up and fuss, or sleep for about ten minutes and then fuss. We did this till 2am, nursing, fussing, until I just rocked her to sleep and I think I had just finally worn her out.
I'm thinking this is not a crib problem, although it could be, but more of a "needy" problem. Does anyone have any tips/suggestions?
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Is the crib is the same room? Is there a difference at all in temperatures? Is there any chance she is just not as warm and comfy in the new bed as she was in the cradle?
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Nope, crib is in her nursery just across the hall. I don't think there's any real temperature difference. I put the same amount of blankets on top of her, but I haven't even really been getting that far. As soon as I set her down for most of my tries, she's fussing.
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Well, then I agree it isn't a crib thing -- she would probably still do it if you were continuing to use the cradle.
I'm probably not the best person to give advice, then on the "needy" part -- because for the most part, my babies just stayed in bed with me all night at that age. She's what -- four months old now?
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I can offer suggestions that were offered me when I was struggling with the same thing with my daughter -- she didn't start sleeping through the night until she was 6 months old. We moved her to her own room around 4 months. But I couldn't quite have the heart to follow through completely with the suggestions I got.
- If she's not hungry, cold, or needing a diaper change, let her cry for 5 to 10 minutes before going in.
- If/when you go in, don't pick her up. Rub her back or belly gently and talk to her softly. After a few minutes of this, walk out. Let her cry if necessary for another 5 to 10 minutes before going back in.
Personally, I'm a wuss....I just couldn't listen to her cry. So it took a while to get her adjusted to her own room.
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Check that her sheets are not cold when you're putting her in (if they are, try a hot water bottle or electric blanket to heat them before you put her in (or I suppose a flannel-wrapped hot brick could work too )).
Use rolled up blankets around her -- a crib is much bigger than a cradle, and she may feel not cozy and cuddled enough.
If all else fails, there's always (modified) Ferberizing . . . but that's hard on her AND you, so I'd try everything else first. And not everyone is ok with even modified Ferber.
[addit: *grin* Of course, while I was posting this, jeniwren described one type of modified Ferber.]
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Culture-wise speaking, our society is one of a very few that feel babies need a separate "room" or bed at this age. Many other cultures keep their babies with the momma at nighttime for several months.
I'm not saying one way is right and one way is wrong -- just that you shouldn't feel like you are doing anything "wrong" if you keep her with you more until she gets past this phase. Not all babies are textbook, and our textbooks are very different from other cultures.
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For both of ours, we've done the cruel thing--letting them cry themselves to sleep. We didn't do it with our first until she was about 6 months old, but we wised up and did it with our second when he was about 3 months.
It's heart-wrenching to listen to them cry (and scream), and you think that they'll hate you forever. But once they learn that crying isn't going to get them out of bed, they go to sleep, and if they wake up at night they're more likely to just go back to sleep without crying. At least that's how it works with ours. And after that first night, they are just as happy to see you as they ever were.
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What is ferber? As for advice... be consistant. I had a friend tell me to lay her down leave the room let her cry 5 minutes for the fist night on the second night bump it up to 10 minutes and the third 15 and keep it at 15 unless you are able to listen to the baby cry longer.
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rivka, I didn't know what "Ferberizing" was so I went and looked it up. I laughed because I didn't know someone invented it! I thought it was one of those wise-experienced-mother suggestions that make the rounds.
You brought to mind something that did work fairly well with Rayne....we swaddled her until she was well past 6 months. It seemed to make a real difference in her comfort.
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Christy has trouble sleeping when the baby is in bed with us. I think she's afraid of rolling over, which I perfectly understand -- although I personally kind of like having Sophie there.
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Yup, she's 4 months, and I am a softie as well. I listened to her cry for about three minutes before Tom asked me if I was going to let her cry and that threw me over the edge. I couldn't do it.
Sophie squirms and kicks and often falls asleep while nursing and I am contorted in odd positions around her. The cradle worked out fine, but it seems even that is not really working right now. I suspect it is because she has become more aware.
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Nurse/feed the baby in the nursery rather than in your bed. We bought an old, comfortable rocking chair for this express purpose. It's tough getting out of bed to do it, and sitting there is no picnic either. But get a comfy chair and it's bearable.
Get her on a schedule as soon as possible-- sounds like you do this already, but we have friends who sometimes keep the baby up 'til 11, sometimes put her down at 7, sometimes at 1am. . . not a positive thing, IMO. Bedtime is a religion at our house, from which there is no deviation.
I've heard that if you give babies some warm rice cereal before bed, they stay asleep longer; I don't know if it's true or not. I do know that giving them a sip of Mountain Dew before midnight turns them into Gremlins.
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Scott, the cereal before bed thing is not true from all the sources I've seen.
quote:You may have heard that giving your baby cereal will encourage sleeping longer at night. This simply isn't true. A baby's immature digestive system isn't ready for solid food until some time around the middle of the first year, and solids given too early may actually upset a baby's tummy.
From La Leche League website.
quote:Several controlled, research studies have shown that the addition of rice cereal to a baby's diet does not consistently produce all-night sleepers. Remember, adding solids before Baby is ready can have adverse effects on Baby's health.
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Lorazepam. 3 miligrams works for me (It's a joke, don't even think about doing this, Lorazepam is a controlled sleep medication)
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And, yes, Scott, rice cereal is definitely considered a solid food for infants.
It is pretty unusual for a baby as young as Sophie to sleep through the night - and sleeping "through the night" at that age generally means a maximum of 5 hours, if you're lucky.
I am not sure what you mean by calling it a "needy" thing. Babies that young really do need their parents. They are not being maipulative when they wake up in the night and cry, they just need human contact. For this reason, I dislike the Ferber method of training a baby to sleep through the night. I feel that a baby who cries should not be ignored, but should know that their cries will be answered and their needs met.
Personally, I always took my babies to bed with me when they cried in the night. It was just easier - I could roll over and nurse the baby without having to wake up. I know that some mothers are uncomfortable having the baby in the bed with them, and there are other ways of handling it.
There also two excellent books on the subject that you might want to checkout - Nighttime Parenting, by William Sears, MD, a noted pediatrician, and Crying baby, Sleepless Nights by Sandy Jones.
Good luck finding the right solution for your family, Christy and Tom.
[ November 08, 2004, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Ela ]
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I was thinking of perhaps buying a large hamster ball. That way, even if Christy were to roll over onto Sophie, she wouldn't be able to obscure all the airholes.
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quote: Yup, she's 4 months, and I am a softie as well.
This does not make you a softie, just an in-tune mama. Mothers have a physiological response to their baby crying- we are programmed to respond to our crying babies!
If you can't sleep with her in bed, what about rolling the crib up next to your bed with the side down? I think there are doodads to connect bed and crib.
FWIW, the earliest one of my kids slept through the night was 18 months, with the others at 3 and 2 years. But, I will admit we never used a crib- either the baby slept in our bed, or we would sleep in their bed with them while transitioning. Also the medical definition is sleeping through the night is five hours at a stretch, not the 8 we tend to think of.
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What Ela said. (It's always what Ela said.)
Rice is a solid. I believe (but haven't re-verified) that starting solids too early has been linked to an increase in food allergies. However, 4-6 months is usually when we start adding them anyway.
Our culture is definitely different than other cultures regarding the expectations and practice of the family bed v. separate beds for infants and children. There is an elevated risk of SIDS and overlying (or smothering) with the family bed, as the typical non-infant mattress and bedlinens would not pass review for infant use. However, there are ways to minimize this increased risk, and it is always a matter of individual family decision how to do this.
I'm much more comfortable when a family is aware of the risks and how to minimize them, regardless of the option actually chosen. And there are pros and cons to all such decisions, as we all know.
Christy and Tom are diligent and exceedingly responsible in their parenthood, and I wouldn't dream of doing anything other than supporting them in the choices they make. (And that's not just as a friend that I'm talking, but wearing my professional hat, too.)
[Should anyone be interested, I can look up data and/or the AAP policy statements in this area. However, it will have to Wait Until Another Day, as I am fried for time. Work stuff and finding out that my mother's sister (the one who helped my mother through chemo and dying) has a husband just diagnosed with lymphoma, to start chemo tomorrow. But that's another matter, and not not to derail Christy's thread. Just an explanation of why I'm flighty regarding being thorough right now.]
[ November 08, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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Just to clarify, it is not the sleeping through the night that I am really worried about. I am perfectly okay with waking up to nurse. However, I am not okay with two hours of ensuing fussing after nursing for no apparent reason or waking up every hour to nurse. Perhaps it was just a bad couple of nights. Perhaps she was teething. Either way, this was unusual and frustrating.
I do have a comfy chair in the nursery and do nurse there as well now that she is in the crib. She goes to bed around 9-10 every night and had been sleeping till 3 on good nights or doing 1 and 4 every so often. She usually nurses and goes right back to sleep within fifteen minutes.
I don't think she was still hungry and I'd prefer to wait till more like 6 mo. to add the cereal since she otherwise seems rather happy still with the milk.
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Four month olds are also becoming much more aware of the world...it is a developmental leap time. Sometimes I think when people-from infants to adults- are in that space, their brains work so fast they can't settle. No evidence, just a theory of mine. Hope you find a solution that works for everyone!!
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Wow, I've been validated by CT. What a compliment.
quote:Rice is a solid. I believe (but haven't re-verified) that starting solids too early has been linked to an increase in food allergies. However, 4-6 months is usually when we start adding them anyway.
Yes, starting solids early can increase food allergies. Rice is less likely to be allergenic, though, as I'm sure Sara knows.
Many breastfeeding experts prefer to wait till at least 6 months old to start solids. I really feel there is no reason to start solids before that time, as babies are better able to absorb their nutrition from breastmilk or formula. Posts: 5771 | Registered: Nov 2000
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I did what jeniwren suggested with my last three and it worked perefectly every time. With Natalie, my oldest, I didn't have the heart to let her cry it out and I didn't get a full nights sleep for almost four years. With the second baby I was determined not to let that happen again!
By always insisting that they go back down to bed at a consistent time (like Scott said, they really need a routine) and not picking them up in the middle of the night if there was no reason (no diaper change needed, not sick, not hungry) I had three wonderful sleepers who haven't ever given me any trouble - even now my younger three go to bed at 9:00 and sleep until 6:30.
Of course, I didn't start this until they were past the need for nighttime feedings, which Sophie isn't yet, but if you know she isn't hungry and she's safe and comfortable, I don't think it hurts to let them cry for a few minutes (I'm not advocating letting her scream for hours or anything.) Also, it may help to have Daddy be the one that gets up and reassures her, because she won't have the immediate association with feeding time when she hears and smells that it's Daddy who is cuddling her instead of you.
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Good point about having Pops get the baby in the middle of the night.
Another thing that we tried was getting a little white noise device that would turn on whenever the baby cried. Ocean sounds, soft music, etc. . . I don't think it worked very well for us, actually.
But some people swear by them. If Tom's a snorer, she may have gotten habituated to that background noise and the silence of the new room bugs her sleeping mind.
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One of the things to think about is that settling oneself back to sleep is a developmental skill. Mind you, there is no particular need to learn it any one time over another -- just that learning how to go to sleep (or back to sleep) is something that we all have to learn sometime.
Babies, or at least some of them, can learn to do this. Ferber is the method I've heard from others to be most useful. But in some families and in some cultures, self-settling is a skill which generally comes later. In such a context, it might be helpful to think about when you would have a child sleeping on his or her own and how you would go about it.
I've known one set of parents who made the third birthday the "big boy" milestone. He got to help pick out his own bed and sheets, he got an extra lovey at the birthday party, and his parents spent the months before telling him "well, I can't let you sleep on your own yet, but really soon" (reverse psychology) and telling him stories about how brave he would be. It wasn't a seamless transition, but they were very happy with how they handled it.
Eventually children will sleep separately from their parents, at least most all of them. That transition has to hapen sometime. Some people think it is easier (on the child and parents) to do it before the child can climb out of his or her own bed -- though it is usually going to be hard in any case, there are extra concerns if the child is up and walking around. Whether or not that is a good reason to do it as an infant is a mater for individual families to work out.
[PS: Christy, the antibiotics kicked in and I am much better today. I'll send you an email in a bit.]
[ November 09, 2004, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Sara Sasse ]
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Well, we brought her into bed with us last night and she slept all the way through the night. 9:30pm till 4am when I adjusted her so that I could cuddle with Tom. We all felt much better for the rest last night.
Thanks for the advice, although we tried the cosleeping, my goal is still to transition her to the crib in the next couple of months and I'll use whatever tips I can get.
Just to get a feel for what you all did, my questions are these: When did you transition baby to his/her own bed/crib? How long did it take before they were settled into this routine?
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Can't help you there as mine always slept in their own crib from day one.
With the twins, I moved them into separate cribs once they started to roll over and reach out and grab or scratch each other. We had one bad night, with both of them crying off and on for a while, and then it was all fine.
Transitioning them to separate rooms at age 2 was a little tougher, and even now I will occasionally find Daniel asleep on the floor in the girls' room. Last time Abigail was sick she asked me to let her sleep in Daniel's room - which I thought was really neat.
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With Christian (my 11 year old), we moved him to his crib in the room next door at around 3 or 4 months. Before that he slept in a bassinet in our room. I don't remember having any trouble with the transition at all -- but he started sleeping through the night around then, and has always been an exceptionally heavy sleeper. His heavy sleeping was nice then, but was a nuisance when he got older. He couldn't wake up to go to the bathroom. He grew out of that, thank goodness.
With Rayne, she slept with us in our bed until she was 2 months old (something I was very concerned about, largely because I didn't want her to get used to it), then transitioned her to the crib in our room. At first, we started her night off in the crib, then at 2am brought her to bed with us when she needed to nurse. I'd put her back in her crib when I got up. Then we moved her crib into her bedroom when she was 4 months, and spent the next two months trying to convince her to sleep through the night. She eventually caught on.
She stayed pretty consistent with sleeping through the night until she had hip surgery at 18mths. She didn't sleep through the night at all while in the cast, but immediately settled down to a full 10 hours again after the cast came off.
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We had a great night sleeping in the crib last night -- yaay! She was tired since we had been out at B&N seeing Tad Williams and so I swaddled her, nursed her in the chair and laid her in the crib with no troubles. I put her in her sleep sack and put another blanket on top of her so she'd be extra warm and cudded. I turned on the little night light and turned on the fan for some white noise and I never heard a peep all night.
Of course, I was up every other hour for some unknown reason, so now we're going to have to work on getting mommy to sleep through the night. *smile*
We'll see if we get repeats or if i was just lucky last night.
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I'm bumping this so Christy might notice it. She's been busy at work lately, so she's only scanning Hatrack now and then.
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Sophie got a cold and so was with us all the next night. Saturday night she slept in her crib with the humidifier on and came to bed with me after her 3am feeding. Sunday she went to sleep in the crib, although seemed unsettled even with all the swaddling, cuddling and nursing beforehand. After Tom accidentally woke her up, he was able to get her to go back to sleep by letting her suck on his finger for a few minutes, which was a relief. I put her back to sleep in the crib successfully after her early morning feeding.
All in all, pretty well, I think.
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![[Wink]](wink.gif)
)). ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I thought it was one of those wise-experienced-mother suggestions that make the rounds.![[Frown]](frown.gif)
But that's another matter, and not not to derail Christy's thread. Just an explanation of why I'm flighty regarding being thorough right now.]![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
Perhaps she was teething. Either way, this was unusual and frustrating.![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
