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Worse. Did you know that Jeri Ryan actually passed out on a regular basis the first season because of that outfit? Then they fixed the outfit so she could actually breathe.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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I didn't know that, no. I'm not surprised though--that costume was ridiculous. I think that the show dramatically improved with the introduction of 7 though. When I heard that they were introducing the character and saw pictures of her I thought "Oh, god, why do they always try to bring in a pair of breasts in high heels to bolster their ratings?", and stopped watching the show entirely for a while. When I tuned back in, though, I discovered that Ryan was actually an incredibly good actor, who brought a lot to the show. Ridiculous outfit aside, I think that she and Robert Picardo are basically the two reasons that show ended up not sucking.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Okay, yes, it didn't suck after she came. She got a bit annoying occasionally, but I liked how the doc was in love with her. It just really chapped my hide that they replaced Kess with some hottie. That's the only reason what's her name is on Enterprise. I mean, come on, how many times did T'Pol end up in that box rubbing lotion all over herself or someone else doing it in the first season alone? Bah.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Oh, yeah, I agree, they just brought her on for the sex appeal. It just turned out that she was great. Two episodes that I thought really showcased her acting abilities were the one where the doctor's program is downloaded into her, and she goes back and forth between playing an amazingly good doctor and her usual character, and the one where all of the various assimilated personalities start coming to the fore.
It helped that I never really warmed to Kess, I suppose.
I agree with you about T'Pol on Enterprise, by the way.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Something about Kess just bugged me, for some reason. I was irritated when they brought her back in that one episode.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I never liked Kess. Certainly not as a major character. She seemed too 'everyone's-in-love-with-me-and-i'm-so-nice' for me to empathise with her.
And I really *really* liked the seven character - ridiculous costume or not.
The main reason I liked her was the interaction with Janeway. I liked the way she made Janeway re-evaluate her own beliefs.
I also liked as Jeri Ryan as an actress - I liked her scenes with Harry Kim, her scenes with the doctor, and even her final scenes with Jakotay.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Wow, it was just last night when I said "I would kill to see an episode of Voyager right now." Creepy.
I prefer Seven to Kes; I thought Kes was just annoying. The show got better with the emphasis on Seven and the Doctor, but worse whenever they had a Chakotay episode.
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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The Doctor was far and away the best part of Voyager, and Seven worked out surprisingly well as well. (How's that for an awkward sentence!)
But even though the doctor was my favorite part, he bugged me to no end. Not because of the writing or the actor, but because of the lame-*** explinations they gave for him.
Can somebody please, PLEASE tell me why they couldn't burn a backup of the doctor to a disc or a storage crystal or some such thing?
Answer: Because that would not be convenient for the drama of the series.
posted
Do you mean a back-up of his original programming? Or the changes he made along the way?
I always thought that the point was he *exceeded* his programming and became an individual - even if he was backed up, the duplicate wouldn't be the same doctor.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Why couldn't they back it up? He's a frickin' program! He's made up of a bunch of 1s and 0s.
Edit: Yes, they do some hand-waving to explain why they can't do that, but it is really no more than hand-waving. The real reason they can't back him up or copy him is because then the doctor would be less like a human, and we wouldn't love him as much.
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I guess I saw the issue as being that he became more than a frickin' program - in essence, he gained a soul (or any other measure of humanity/human life).
So any reproduction would have short charged that.
**
Wow. I have spent *way* too much time thinking about the status of a fictional holographic character.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Yeah, that always bugged me about the doctor too. Why not just run an incremental backup every day or something?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Exactly. There is no feasble technical explination. The whole reason is that he is a major character, and they didn't want to make him too alien.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Here's another vote for Seven instead of Kess. I loved the comedy that occured because of her character and all the great new sides we saw of everyone else because of her presence.
As for Darmok, that episode has the effect of making me want to chew off my arm. I guess I just have to be in the mood for the constant repetition. We got my sister this cool DVD compilation of Patrick Steward episodes and that one is the only one we haven't sat down to watch yet. I think we're avoiding it.
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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And a post after m_p_h's edit - yes, I'm sure that's partly the reason.
(The identifying with the human character)
But I also saw it as trying to ask questions as to what is human and what isn't - and then the metaphors from one human-outsider(be it hologram or robot) relation to our known race/religion/gender relations.
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I had no idea there were so many Voyager fans hereabouts. I could never get into it, myself. Don't really know why. I'm a TNG man, myself. And there really weren't any hot babes on that one. (At least, not as regulars.)
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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My big problem with Voyager is that I hate Janeway as a captain.
It's not her character that I mind -- I actually like her. What I can't stand are the tactical/strategic choices she makes.
Every other episode, she would risk the destruction of the entire ship in order to save one or two crew members. She kept gambling over and over -- she should have *eventually* lost before she could ever make it back to earth.
And don't even get me started on her stupid decision to strand them there in the pilot...
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I did love Terry Farrell though (Becker re-runs are airing over summer here. I was watching earlier tonight and was thinking "You left Dax for *this*?").
From the girl side, I also very much liked Alexander Siddig (Dr Bashir).
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Yeah, that bath scene was pretty good, wasn't it? And Neelix did get more palatable to me as the show wore on, but that could have just been due to familiarity.
There were a lot of things that bugged me about early Voyager though. I hated how easily the two crews put aside their differences and became one big happy family. It should have taken seasons to resolve issues that were wrapped up in the first few episodes.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Not surprisingly, I completely agree with Porter about Janeway. And imogen, I loved Bashir too, although perhaps not for the same reasons you did. The only regular character on that show that bugged me was Jake.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Jake transformed too quickly and too completely I thought.
And Noemen - I was, of course, talking about the character development of Bashir. What else?
Seriously, I think the reason I have a slight Bashir-crush is because of the development of that character.
Kind of like my Wesley crush in Angel. Both completely character related. Nothing to do with the actors.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Kes was such a babe. I loved the episode they did when she was aging backwards. I think that's my favourite. And she ended up marrying that one dude I did not like so much... which means they had to be stuck together for days... ew.. because they had a daughter and she married another one of the guys and she was rather hot too. It was interesting how fast they aged. Sort of like rats or something. I just don't like how the show turned into a Space Orgy, but I did like the episode where Janeway fell in love with a sweet lunky handsome Irish hologram and then changed it so she could not changed his personality. That raises interesting questions.
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I'm not seeing the Space Orgy thing Syn. There were various romantic involvements on the show, sure, but the emphasis in them was more on the emotional aspects of those relationships rather than the sexual.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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*shudder* Frankly, both Voyager and Enterprise feel like Space Orgies to me. I could never manage to get into either of them, and I even watched a fair number of episodes waiting for something good.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I haven't seen all *that* much of this season of Enterprise, but from what I've seen it feels to me like the show may finally be getting some traction, if you know what I mean. I seem to remember that they brought in new writers for this season, and if that's the case I think it's paying off.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I've always liked the young guys on Star Trek. Honestly, what 7- to 12-year-old girl didn't have a crush on Wesley Crusher? Then I didn't watch much DS9, then it was Harry Kim, and now it's Travis (Enterprise - he's the token black guy).
Posts: 3932 | Registered: Sep 1999
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Actually, there was an episode, Living Witness, that featured a backup of the Doctor on a world 400 years later that believed Voyager had been evil and murderous. They have sort of holodeck that shows the Voyager Encounter and the way Janeway ordered numerous atrocities. There's alot about political correctness and historical revisionism in this one (directed by Tim Russ- Tuvok) and it is quite humerous and interesting.
Of course ALL TREKS have this sort of lame inconsistancy. They create a device, can't do something, or bring on a new species, all for dramatic purposes- and then they either ignore it or contradict it. DS9 largely escaped this, thankfully. Voyager, TOS, and TNG DID NOT. I cannot even begin to tell you how many time TNG has irritated me with this artificial drama.
Still good shows and enjoyable episodes, though.
And I like Janeway. She was the quintissential "mother bear" who'd do anything to save her crew. She'd gladly consign herself to hell (literally or by doing something that violated her principles) if it meant saving her crew. But she would never let her crew do the same and degenerate like the crew of the Equinox did. They would get home intact.
I love that show, no matter what Tom says.
EDIT: As for Darmok, I could not get past the believability of it. How on earth is a Universal Translator translating those expressions without getting the meanings of them? "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra" means two friends bonding and fighting together at a difficult place. If the UT is getting the actual words by processing brain waves of the other person and matching it to the DB of what words those waves mean, then why is it not getting the semantic meaning rather than the literal meaning? It would have worked better if the people had been human and had developed this language and lost 'normal' English.
quote:And I like Janeway. She was the quintissential "mother bear" who'd do anything to save her crew.
She'd do anything to save individuals in her crew. Including throwing away the entire crew. She had the worst qualities of an irrational mother bear.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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No one said she was logical. But really, when you're all alone and a group of Vidians show up and are willing to harvest your crew, how do you make them leave? Or when aliens are performing experiments on you and they won't leave? Fly through a sun's corona, right? What else can you do?
I seem to remember Picard doing the same thing with Nagelum (season 2), when they wandered into that 'mouse trap' and Nagelum wanted to study death. It was going to take, 'oh, about a third of the crew'. Rather than take that as acceptable losses (after all, 2/3 are left) Picard set the self destruct. Nagelum let them go. And I know Picard threatened it more than once.
When you only have one hand in a particular situation, you have to play it. There's no folding.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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It just bugged me that she seemed to do that every other episode. Maybe my complaint is with the stories, not the character of Janeway. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I guess I just have to be in the mood for the constant repetition. We got my sister this cool DVD compilation of Patrick Steward episodes and that one is the only one we haven't sat down to watch yet. I think we're avoiding it.
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