posted
...I think being a child of divorce or strife makes Mormon teenagers more likely to marry as quickly as possible.
In order for this to happen, I think it needs two elements:
1. Unstable but not abusive home life 2. Great importance placed on the value of a happy family, and self-worth being derived from it.
The unstable but not abusive home life is important because a family is then something that is painful only by its absense. It isn't that it hurts to be home, but that home is a wreck and it's better to be together. If a family is actually abusive, then being closer and together wouldn't solve anything.
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1) lots of people marry to escape a less-than-perfect home life or out of some unfilled need. So, sure, this could happen to Mormons too.
and,
2) It'd be pretty awful to claim this out loud in front of people who had married young. Lots of people marry young out of love and spend the rest of their lives nurturing that.
posted
Well, I fit the mold. My sister-in-law doesn't, though.
Oh, wait. Her dad died and her mom re-married when she was a kid. That might be it.
Or she might just have needed to get away from the 20 other kids in the blended family!
But yeah, I can see that.
That, and there's such an emphasis on chastity until marriage. I mean, honestly, that's why I think young marriages have always happened; if you're expected to be chaste until you're married, many people get married. It's certainly easier that way, in some ways. It's all priorities.
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And I do love my husband very much. And we want at least 6 or 7 kids, so we did need to get started...
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I came from a very stable, supportive family, and married my wife at 22.
Your theory isn't accurate. It would be like me saying that "Some flowers that bloom are yellow. Therefore all blooming flowers are yellow".
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I think part of it, too, is that teenagers who have a lot of turmoil at home may be too distracted by that instability to develop interests that will carry them into adulthood. I've seen that kids who get involved with school, are excited about going to college or a mission, and have some general but firm ideas about what they want to be when they grow up tend not to *need* a romantic relationship. Lacking focus, involvement, or any passion for their own personal development, I think many teens pick relationships as the focus, and with a Mormon family oriented ethic, may choose to marry very early.
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posted
I do NOT think this is the only reason they marry young, of course. In other words, I'm not condeming or saying they are not doing it out of love.
I do think that people get married for multiple reasons, though, and love is just part of it. Another part is if/when you are ready for it, and what might contribute to making some people ready more quickly than others.
In other words, I'm not being offensive, and this seems like the perfect place to talk about it. I'm hurt you would think I was trying to be.
Added: For this theory, I don't think 22 counts as young. I do think 18-19 does.
[ March 18, 2005, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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jeniwren, I have interests. My biggest priority has just always been being a wife and mother.
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How young is young? Young by LDS culture standards or young by general standards? I have a sister and a couple of cousins who got married when they were 18. All from intact, happy families, and all of the parents were at least a little upset at the time.
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I think there isn't a lot of usefulness in trying to generate blanket formulas when it comes to this sort of thing because people respond to stress in so many different ways.
Of the seven of us who have seven different views of the broken and/or abusive nature of our family growing up, one has jumped blindly into a series of failed weddings. One waited and was very careful to pick a good stable companion. And one avoided marriage until it became basically mandatory in his point of view.
You also have to define "very young". When I was active in the LDS church, most young women were encouraged to marry as soon as a worthy man asked, and most worthy men were encouraged to ask as soon as they got back from their missions. (I'm talking about social encouragement, not official doctrinal encouragement.) Basically, I think the whole culture encourages marriage at a young age. I'm incline to think too young, but YMMV.
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This is true; I hear conversations like, "She's 26 and still not married, so, you know..." all the time. It strikes me as absurd, because in most other cultures, that's pretty normal. Mormon women, however, are "supposed" to get married younger.
I was married exactly 1 month after I turned 20. My family thought I was way young. My husband's (LDS, all of them) didn't think it was that unusual. I think his parents were a little upset that he was giving up on a mission (he tried three times, and was basically told it is not going to happen, not because of worthiness but another reason, but it was hard for his parents to get over that), but their other son had married a 19-year-old very soon after his mission, so it wasn't unprecedented in the family.
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Dang this thread moved quickly. I thought I had a decent chance of being first to respond. Damn me and my slow post-craft.
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kq, you don't count because you *knew* what you wanted to be. I don't mean young men and women like you. I know a great gal at church who married at 19, has 3 small children now, and is happy as can be.
I mean the ones like me, who married at 20 to get out my parent's house, having no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up, not really interested in having children.
I watch the kids at church as they are growing up. The ones that seem to do the best are the ones who have a pretty good idea what their interests are and what they want out of life.
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I can get behind that, jw. I don't think anyone should marry without knowing what it really means and understanding why they're doing it. At the very least.
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It could be that Mormons in general marry young because they are less interested in vapid and promiscuous relationships. While many people today have several long term sexual relationship before getting married, I'd imagine that is not the case for Mormons.
posted
My brilliant sister-in-law (perfect grades in high school, full four-year scholarship to college, lots of interests) met my brother her first week of her freshman year and was married by spring break, having thought about it carefully.
Part of it was indeed that she wanted a family, and hers was not abusive, but also not together. Stability was appealling, and freedom comes with insecurity. That was not appealling.
What triggered it? An article in The Atlantic Monthly that reported a study that found a correlation in women and marriage rates: For every 15 points higher in an IQ test, they were 60% less like to be married.
This does not fit with my sister-in-law. So I was trying to come up with other reasons.
[ March 18, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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I, personally, think there should really be no cultural stigma on how old someone is when they get married, young or old. People just mature at such different rates. There are some 16 year olds out there more ready to be married than some 30 year olds, I'm sure.
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quote: they are less interested in vapid and promiscuous relationships. While many people today have several long term sexual relationship before getting married
I realize you put qualifiers in there, but its things like this that tick me off. Do you realize how arrogant and condescending you are being to non-LDS? Not being married does not necessarily make a relationship vapid or promiscuous. I realize you guys have a moral code, but if someone doesn't follow that particular moral code you can't judge them by it, and have it mean anything.
AJ
(ok, I over reacted a little bit. I went back and reread and the way vwiggin worded the post, is such that they may not be LDS themselves. In which case, portraying LDS as being that judgemental is also a stereotype, but more understandable.)
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Jon Boy, that had been posted when I had asked, so I missed it.
I knew I wasn't going to wait to get married if I found the right person, but I also wasn't particularly afraid of not being married.
Part of my point was that I wanted a family, and I wanted my career later, because I figured it would be easier that way.
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posted
This is not an article of faith with me - it's a theory. That's why I'm discussing it. If it was something I believed absolutely, I wouldn't discuss it.
TM, I don't like equating brightness with knowing yourself as a teenager. They aren't equivelent, it's an insulting correlation, and it doesn't account for many things, which includes knowing you'll change and arranging priorities so things you like that can't be done with a partner are done before you aquire a partner.
I think it does make sense in some cases, though. If you have stability, then you don't need to search for it or find it. If you don't have a place to rest your wings, then you'll look for one. If you do, then finding one is less urgent.
[ March 18, 2005, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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I think we can agree that It isn't necessarily the lack of marriage that makes a relationship vapid and promiscuous. It is the lack of commitment. For us, it is the willingness to jump into bed together without any real meaning other than satiating a hunger.
Even the terms vapid and promiscuous in this context doesn't automatically have a moral code attached to it.
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I don't know that I do agree Amka. Even though I am personally monogamous, I'm finding myself philisophically more and more in line with the ideaology of polyamorists. However I suspect most polyamorist people have actually thought more seriously about sex and it's role in their lives than most people in your average college freshman dorm, where people are humping like rabbits.
AJ (sorry kat, didn't mean to derail... on topic with non-LDS people, I'd say that people with turmoil in their homes probably tend to go to the extremes. Either the extreme you are discussing, or the exact opposite end of the spectrum and delaying marriage indefinitely, with or without sex involved.)
posted
I don't think bright is the word you are looking for.
*considers* The theory of the safe but unstable family comes from the idea that you don't need to look for what you already have. If you're in a stable place, you don't need to get married to have a family.
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posted
However, if you grew up with the expectation of finding and marrying Mr. Right and starting a family, it's not a matter of needing something to fill a void in your life, but rather completing your own expectations of what a complete life is.
Which sounds depressingly circular...sorry, the meds are kicking in.
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I think any time people get married, there are layers and layers of motivations involved. I think this could very well be one of them.
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I agree that it could be one of the reasons for marrying young, Katie. But there are plenty of other ones out there -- especially in Mormon culture, where marriage is almost a pathological need.
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There's a huge controversey right now consisting of people demanding to get married. It's highly inflammatory to characterize wanting to get married as a Mormon thing.
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Definitely an expectation. Some people may have a pathological need, sure. But you can't generalize that to everyone.
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I didn't see it online - it was in my print version I got a couple of days ago. I'll update this thread with the info when I get a hold of it again.
Sadly, the Atlantic Online has gone to subscribers only. This is very annoying, as I can't link to that fabulous Bobby Fischer bio anymore.
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quote:I went back and reread and the way vwiggin worded the post, is such that they may not be LDS themselves.
Thanks for spotting that. I'm not LDS nor am I a religious person.
quote:In which case, portraying LDS as being that judgemental is also a stereotype, but more understandable.
I'm not saying the LDS considers all non-LDS or non-marital relationships as being vapid. I don't think I'm portraying the LDS as being judgmental. At best, you can say that I'm judgmental, and I'm can't really deny that.
All I know is that all of my LDS friends are very serious about their relationships. When they date someone, they are always thinking "can I marry this person?" My non-LDS friends, on the other hand, are more willing to date for, um, purposes unrelated to marriage.
quote:Not being married does not necessarily make a relationship vapid or promiscuous.
AJ, I agree completely. I believe married couples are more likely to be committed to each other on a deeper level as compared to non-married couples. But marriage is definitely not a requirement for making a relationship meaningful. Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Hi, I'm a Mormon who had his entire life turn upside down when his parent's marriage fell apart back when I was 14. (I'm now 28.)
It really, really hurt...especially since there had been no outward warning signs.
As a result, even though I long to have a family...I'm terrified of marriage. Terrified of getting close to someone. Scared that any kid I have would end up going through the hellish feelings I went through during those "years of the divorce".
Gloria Steinem once had an essay in the book "Free to Be You and Me" that her parents divorcing lead to her having a happier childhood. That she believed kids only felt bad about their folks splitting up because movies and TV shows programmed them to feel sad.
I know from personal experience that's a load of crud.
It hurt. It hurt worse than almost anything I've ever felt before or since.
I barely dated during the later years of High School. Didn't date at all in college.
Have mostly avoided dating after returning from my mission, though I do attend the Single's Branch.
My younger brother is married to his childhood sweetheart. They got married within a month of his returning from his mission. They have a son. They seem very happy.
I envy them. Even though I know it's wrong, and that my brother (who's a GREAT guy) deserves every bit of happiness he has and that it's my own darn fault for being so reclusive and withdrawn...I envy them a lot.
When I think about finding someone, I feel sick, sad, scared. Drawn, yet repulsed.
All messed up inside, basically.
So no, at least in my case going through a youth affected by family strife and divorce didn't lead to an early marriage.
posted
"So was dying young. Don't see alotta folks pushing for that option nowadays."
Actually, aspectre, the prediction is that if the rate of obesity continues to increase as it is right now, the average age of death will be younger again.
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posted
You know, I don't have a problem with dying young. I really don't. think about it, how many happy old people do you know past the age of, say, seventy?
quote:So was dying young. Don't see alotta folks opting for that nowadays.
I know people who wish this all the time. At least, who say they hope they die before such and such an age.
posted
I can think of a couple dozen happy people over the age of 70 right off the top of my head. Including three in their nineties. And my neighbor enjoyed her life right up to 103. Even though people kept trying to talk her out of doing things like fixing her own roof at age 95.
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