posted
I’m having a panic attack right now, so I’m posting this partially as an attempt to get it out of my system, and partially in the hope that someone here will have some advice.
I’m a sophomore at Purdue University, majoring in Political Science with minors in Psychology and (probably) Statistics. I have a 4.0 GPA at the moment, and will have something in between a 3.5 and a 4.0 when I graduate. That’s pretty much where the good news ends. I’m currently involved in one student organization, which has a total of about 15 members and is likely to die before the end of the year if I don’t do something to save it. And saving dying student organizations is not something I have the faintest clue how to do. I don’t know any professors at all. I haven’t been in any small classes with professors and I don’t know any other way to get to know them. As far as I can tell I also don’t have any marketable skills.
I’ve tried to get into at least one other club, that wouldn’t let me in because I didn’t have any leadership experience. I’m trying to get internships for this summer, which is a problem, because most of them ask for a professor reference, and there’s that whole, no professors know my name thing that’s a problem.
The problem is that other than the complete dead end my career prospects are taking, I rather like my life. I don’t particularly like being in leadership positions, so it’s hard for me to pursue them. I like having time to myself to pursue my own interests. There aren’t really any clubs here I’m all that interested in joining.
When I graduate, I want to work in data analysis, the trouble being I don’t know if there are any jobs in that area in the public sector, and I’m not particularly interested in working in DC for a variety of unrelated reasons. Graduate school has been my backup plan in case I couldn’t find a job. Right now, though, I doubt my ability to get into grad school.
So I guess what I’m asking for is advice, opinions, I’d love to know whether or not my assessment of Real Life is correct. Am I panicking over nothing, or should I suck up my distaste and throw myself into any organization I can find?
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
You have a 4.0 with a major and two minors at Purdue, plan on graduating between 3.5 and 4.0, and are worried about getting into grad school? As long as you don't bomb the GRE and don't have extremely high standards for where you want to go for whatever program you're pursuing, you're pretty much guaranteed to get in.
My suggestion is one of two, or even both:
Option 1: Dump one of your minors. This is only your third semester (assuming you started in the fall) in college, you have plenty of time to figure out if you want to complete a minor in something or not. This will give you the freedom to pursue more options academically, and to take some smaller classes if you want. It could also provide you with more time to get involved with more clubs/organizations. What clubs are you pursuing that they're rejecting you based on leadership abilities? I don't usually condone this, but consider pledging a fraternity - possibly even a relatively academic like Delta Upsilon - if Purdue is Greek.
Option 2: Take a fifth year of undergrad. If you're looking at graduate school as a backup plan, I'm assuming that you're either willing to absorb debt for the sake of doing what needs to be done, or are blessed enough to have the income to support indefinite higher education. A fifth year will give you the time to relax academic pressure and experiment with different fields of study, not to mention get involved in whatever organizations you want/need to. What is stopping you from pursuing other clubs/organizations? Do all the ones you're interested in require leadership experience? Because that's pretty strange - almost all the clubs I can think of require nothing more than an interest in the subject and the ability to pay dues.
It sounds like you're taking life way too seriously, and trying way too hard to plan too far ahead.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I advise you not follow erosomniac's advice. Your GPA suggests that the academic workload isn't one of your problems.
My advice is to keep going as you're going, but force yourself to be more outgoing. It's actually really easy to get to know your professors. My favorite tact is to go up to them right after class and talk to them. Ask a question about a point you're not real clear on, offer an opinion about something currently happening that's related to the class. Go to their office during office hours to get some help/clarification on some topic.
Just put yourself out there. Oh, and the first time you go up to them introduce yourself. I would do this no less than once a week, to start.
If you don't want to be in a student organization don't feel like you need to be in one. What do you like to do outside of class?
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
As an employer, I seldom looked at extracurriculars that weren't directly related to the job (like a robot competition if you're an electrical engineer, or a newspaper or journal for someone who has to write). You have good grades, and you're very likely to get into grad school if you want.
I would suggest that you meet a professor or two as soon as possible. Pick a class you have a paper in, find an interesting topic, and go discuss it with her. I had no non-math references available to me when I finished undergrad, and it hurt me getting into law school the first time. As you take higher classes in the major, you are more likely to get to know a professor.
Joining a club you're not interested in is no fun, not is it particularly useful. Whatever your interests are, there are ways to get them on your resume. Start a club if there's an activity you like that is club-friendly. If you have a regular group pf friends who do something together (rock climb, play soccer, whatever), turn it into an unofficial club.
Volunteer work is something I might look into, though. Besides the inherent reward, it's good experience. If you're not fond of leading, you can still get managing experience.
As for marketable skills, that was a problem with political science when I took it. Internships will help, as would activities that involve producing something.
Most of all, relax. You've got great grades. You've got time this year to find an internship. You've got more than half your college career left to you. There's plenty of time.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
1. I've found that belonging to clubs is almost totally unimportant both to grad schools and employeers UNLESS those clubs are related to the job or subject you'd be going into (in which case they are a big plus.) I was only in one "club" at college, and although I do have it listed somewhere on my resume, the issue has never come up in any interview.
2. If you are part of a club, that should be part of pursuing your own interests. Don't join clubs that are not pursuing interests of yours.
3. There are jobs in "Data Analysis" everywhere - and a whole lot of them. You don't need to worry about not finding one. Instead worry about what kind of data you'd like to analyze, what environment you'd want to do it in, and most importantly, if you really want to do data analysis. Internships are the answer for this. But organizations that analyze data include federal, state, and local governments, any financial company, marketing firms, consulting companies, research companies, NGOs, non-profits, publishing companies, schools, hospitals, any decent sized corporation, and so on.
4. Finding a job is generally somewhat easy, if you have a college degree. Finding a job that you like, pays decent, and fits your interest is what is very hard.
5. There are definitely internships around that don't require a recommendation letter from professors. Take a look more broadly, especially into smaller organizations. Also, I bet many that ask for recommendations would also be willing to accept recommendations from other people who know you well, if you ask them.
6. Take small classes, or make an opportunity to meet a professor. This is much more important than joining a club.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote: When I graduate, I want to work in data analysis, the trouble being I don’t know if there are any jobs in that area in the public sector, and I’m not particularly interested in working in DC for a variety of unrelated reasons.
Seems to me that Bob_Scopatz's job involves lots of data analysis, and he doesn't live/work in D.C. (even though working for the government). I would think you won't have any trouble finding that kind of work anywhere.
Other than that -- I guess I'm not understanding what the "problem" is in your post. What are you asking?
posted
Actually, you might rather like doing traffic safety data analysis. I hope Bob sees this thread.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:"The problem is that other than the complete dead end my career prospects are taking, I rather like my life. I don’t particularly like being in leadership positions, so it’s hard for me to pursue them. I like having time to myself to pursue my own interests. There aren’t really any clubs here I’m all that interested in joining.
When I graduate, I want to work in data analysis, the trouble being I don’t know if there are any jobs in that area in the public sector, and I’m not particularly interested in working in DC for a variety of unrelated reasons. Graduate school has been my backup plan in case I couldn’t find a job. Right now, though, I doubt my ability to get into grad school.
So I guess what I’m asking for is advice, opinions, I’d love to know whether or not my assessment of Real Life is correct. Am I panicking over nothing, or should I suck up my distaste and throw myself into any organization I can find?"
Just my two cents worth. I graduated from college a little over a year ago, and one thing I have realized is that when it comes to one's career decisions, no decision is ever final. I majored in Political Science and the only thing I knew for sure is that I wanted to live and work in the DC metro area. After I graduated, I packed everything up and moved to DC without a job. I worked in retail until I got a job at a conservative think-tank and worked there for about 8 months. After 8 months, I changed my mind and worked at a huge corporate consulting firm in the area and now, I am working for the government. All of this in a year, and next week I am interviewing at another conservative think-tank, lol. I will probably stay at the job I'm currently at, but I always like to consider all of the options available.
Always stay flexible and have an open mind. Be friendly, listen and learn from those around you (good and the bad), always act with integrity, have good character, and you never know how many interesting paths you will walk down in life.
Especially if you're a Political Science major, you need to complete at least 1 internship prior to graduating. You will also need at least 2 good references. If you don't know any of your profs, you need to find a mentor. Do you have an academic advisor? Get to know them if you have not. If you want to go into data analysis, I would highly recommend getting a job with the US government. A federal government job can pay off your student loans and also pay for your graduate degree.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I don't want to sidetrack, blacwolve, but I want to ask -- do you like Purdue? Because my oldest son has been advised (by JenGardener's dad, as a matter of fact) to possibly seek graduate school at Purdue. We know nothing about the college. You can e-mail me any thoughts on that so it doesn't derail this thread.
posted
Don't worry so much - you have over two years ahead of you to prepare for the real world!
That being said, it's good that you're looking forward - if you plan on going to graduate school or working in a competative field, it's good to start preparing earlier, rather than later.
At a larger school you're going to have to make the effort to get to know your professors. Office hours can be very useful - so go to them. Even if you don't have any questions about the material discussed in class, you can ask them about issues that spark your interest related to the class. See if they can suggest any papers that may be of interest. Ask them about their current research - you might even be able to get a internship (unpaid) helping them with it. Professors love intellectually curious students.
You'll also notice as you get into higher-level courses that the classes get smaller. There may even be a point at which your professors will learn your name. Consider joining the honors program at Purdue, if it's a good one. Most honors programs feature more contact with faculty and smaller classes.
Try talking to the Career Center about your worries and concerns. Not only can they help you find an internship, they might have strategies that you can use to boost your resume. A good job on campus can really help to - I tutor for economics and math, which puts me into contact with the faculty of those two departments, and let's me develop some good skills. If you have the time, and are really worried about not having any marketable skills, try interning (unpaid, again) with a company in the area during the school year.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Truthfully, I think getting an unpaid internship is a bit crazy, unless you actually do like the particular job a lot. There are lots of paid internships available if you do the research and ask around.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Depends on the school, the area, and your major.
In engineering, paid internships are pretty much standard. A few of my friends in Boulder were Finance majors and they all had to take unpaid internships. Polysci, I'd guess, is one of the majors where unpaid internships are commonplace.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
From my experience, it is very possible for a Poli Sci major to score a paid internship. You just need to learn where to look. If you want to intern on the Hill or at the White House, forget it. They don't pay their interns, you often get stuck doing mail, and your hours will be horrible, but some people like that form of abuse. If you want to work for a non-profit or an advocacy group, your chances are much better. Most of those at least pay a stip-end and I get the impression that their interns are treated better.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Thank you so much everyone. This thread is doing a lot to ease my fears.
quote:Originally posted by imogen: When do you actually graduate? (Sorry I have no idea what a sophomore means in "real speak" - well, at least, "Aussie speak" ).
How long have you been at college?
I'll graduate in May of '08, so I have 2.5 more years to go.
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: You have a 4.0 with a major and two minors at Purdue, plan on graduating between 3.5 and 4.0, and are worried about getting into grad school? As long as you don't bomb the GRE and don't have extremely high standards for where you want to go for whatever program you're pursuing, you're pretty much guaranteed to get in.
I don't know what it takes to get into grad school. We're always being told that even if you have bad grades, you can still get into grad school, which made me think that it relied more on things like extracurriculars. I'm really generally fuzzy on how education beyond undergraduate works. It seems to be one of those things that most people know automatically, which makes it incredibly difficult for them to explain.
quote:Originally posted by erosomniac: What clubs are you pursuing that they're rejecting you based on leadership abilities? I don't usually condone this, but consider pledging a fraternity - possibly even a relatively academic like Delta Upsilon - if Purdue is Greek.
Student Councils. There really aren't that many active clubs here, plenty of clubs, not many active ones. Rush is already over at Purdue, I'm not sure why we have it so early. It doesn't sound particularly appealing to me anyway.
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: If you don't want to be in a student organization don't feel like you need to be in one. What do you like to do outside of class?
Read, watch DVDs with friends, crochet, hatrack, some writing, hang out with friends, learn things.
I have to run to class now, I'll try to address everyone else when I get back.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I went to a big college (Emory, in Atlanta). For the survey courses (100 and 200 level), you are very likely to have a huge lecture hall full of hundreds of students and to be taught by a graduate student, rather than a real professor. In the Junior and Senior years, you are taking higher level courses, so you will be in smaller classes, taught by more prestigious faculty.
To get to know your professors better, choose one (a full professor or associate professor -- not a graduate student) whose class you found interesting and approach him or her with the offer to be a research assistant. The professors are always needing to do research and rely on their students for free labor to do scut work. The experience you get is valuable, as may be the bonds that you form with the professor. Also, it is a nice thing to be able to put on your resume.
Anyway, that's what I did.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:I don't know what it takes to get into grad school. We're always being told that even if you have bad grades, you can still get into grad school, which made me think that it relied more on things like extracurriculars. I'm really generally fuzzy on how education beyond undergraduate works. It seems to be one of those things that most people know automatically, which makes it incredibly difficult for them to explain.
Whether or not you can get into a grad school with bad grades depends largely on the program you're trying to get into. I would say, think first about what sort of program you'd want to get into, and then start inquiring at specific schools in those departments to see what kind of requirements they have. Grad school is much more specialized than undergraduate; any program you apply to is likely to be far more interested in how good you are at the things that you'll do while in their program rather than any generalized set of skills you might gain as an undergraduate.
For example, in my field, it was expected that I have a broad knowledge of music and that I was able to write fairly well. If you're trying to go to grad school for, say, math, then obviously writing skills will be much less of an issue. This is why I suggest talking to graduate departments to get an idea of what they look for in incoming grad students.
In my experience, extra-curriculars aren't nearly as big a deal as high school counselors made them out to be. *shrug* YMMV, though.
posted
what is the program? I know quite a few upperclass students at Purdue through 4-H that I could ask, if blacwolve doesn't know much. I also know someone in grad school at U of Illinois that I can talk to if I need, just let me know.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Plant Breeding. But I'm thinking K-State has to have at least as good of a program (since it is very ag based) but perhaps he is just more familiar with those universities....
I was just curious as to the atmosphere of those other universities...
posted
I know several people in AG studies at Purdue, they like it, from what I understand (but I don't go there, and blacwolve knows better than I do), it's quieter than IU, and probably be pretty good for him, I don't know much about the other schools you mentioned in AG or Hort studies, more arts an education there.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I really was just poking fun, since there is apparently quite a sports rivalry between Purdue and IU. Personally, I couldn't care less, but the poking is the fun part. Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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For example, in my field, it was expected that I have a broad knowledge of music and that I was able to write fairly well. If you're trying to go to grad school for, say, math, then obviously writing skills will be much less of an issue.
Actually, I would say that writing skills would still be important for math, or anything that you can go to grad school for.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Yes, but depending on the program you're going to, it could be vital, or they could just be a good idea. For me, it was vital, since in my discipline, the only real professional option post-graduation is professor. Half of that profession's activity is writing, so writing skills are vital in order for you to succeed in the graduate program. I would imagine that the immediacy of this need is less in programs where professions may end up involving less writing (academic or otherwise).
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
My fiance works as a data analyst in DC and he doesn't work for the government. His work is used by the government and sometimes his company is even subcontracted by the government but it is a private sector job. He graduated with a very similar degree to yours from a mid tier school. I think you should be fine. Look into finding an internship that appeals to you and then simply ask your profs for recommendations. Most will write one for you even if you aren't particularly close. You could also take a higher level class you are particularly interested in and get to know a prof that way. When I was in school I was able to take a couple of grad classes as an undergraduate and they were great because the classes were super small and look really good on a resume. You have great grades so that might be an option for you as well.
Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I've been considering grad school as well, and it seems that most any grad school will ask for two or three professors to write a letter of recommendation on your behalf. So it's essential to get to know at least a couple fairly well. I haven't really been that successful at getting to know professors either, but I haven't really been trying too hard.
I'm studying engineering, and most of the professors seem to be doing some research, so I'll probably ask one if he needs another assistant once I go back to school (right now I'm taking a semester off for an internship). I'm sure there has to be some political science research going on at Purdue. Find a professor you like, and ask him or her if they need any help (maybe with data analysis or something else that you're interested in as a career). You could potentially build a relationship with a professor and obtain relevant work experience all at the same time.
As for clubs, I'll echo some previous posters and tell you not to get involved with something you're not interested in. Does your favorite political party have a student branch at Purdue? I know my campus has pretty active Democrat, Republican, Libertarian. and Green party chapters, maybe you could get involved with one of them and put that political science education to work.
Posts: 45 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
For those who are considering grad school (not Law, Business, or Med school), there's a really strong livejournal community on the topic: So you want to go to grad school?.
If you have a question on almost ANY topic concerning grad school, in almost any field, there's probably some answers in the archives section. blacwolve, I'd highly suggest you look there if you have questions about what's required for grad school or how to properly prepare - I know for a fact that there are a number of poli sci students who currently are or have posted on the subject. You might also try looking at the grad school apps for random schools - they're often very similar, and will give you a good idea of what universities are looking for, and what information they request from applying students.
Your library or career center almost certainly has books that discuss both the graduate school application process and the nature of graduate school. I highly recommend the book Getting What You Came For: The Smart Student's Guide to Earning an M.A. or a Ph.D..
Finally, while there are some things that are similar across the board in graduate applications (such as recommendations from two or three professors), different subjects put different weight on the typical parts of an application. For instance, if you want to go to grad school in economics (and get funding!!), you better have very, very high quant scores on the GRE - but, as long as you don't do extremely poorly, your verbal GRE score doesn't matter very much. So, whatever subject you're considering studying at grad school, try to get advice from other people in that subject area, because it does matter quite a bit.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Farmgirl- I'm going to email you tomorrow. I'm sick and exhausted right now, so I'll write when I can string two words together logically. I haven't forgotten.
Just to clarify, I don't particularly want to go to grad school, I'd prefer not to, actually. I've always just thought that if I couldn't get a real job, that would be an option.
Just to make sure I'm right, people generally seem to feel that extracurriculars aren't nearly as important as everyone says? Because if that's true it's a huge load off my back.
I'm going to try and pester my professors more, and start going to office hours. I'm also signed up for some smaller classes next semester. Thanks everyone, I'm really going to try to force my professors to know who I am.
Thank you for your replies everyone Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I don't know anything about your type of grad school. But I do remember having to have a lot of recommendations and/or letters from my professors for things. I was taught to make up a sort of informal resume and staple a picture to it. Attach the request, and maybe attach something with more social history or goals on it than is on the resume, and then take the whole packet to the professor. Ask him in person during office hours. I always got good results doing that. The professor has all the information he needs either in the packet or in his gradebooks.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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