posted
You're not my only hope, but I'm getting desperate.
I'm quickly discovering I'm not a very good science student. I learn well enough, but the subject... bores me, and I never do any particularly outstanding work in the field. Math straight out frightens me. And these are critical grades for admittance to medical school.
Law plays to my strengths, and my desires -- I want a six-figure salary, and, ideally, a 40-hour workweek. I want time to spend with a family, and money to help out my parents, and enough left over to make investments of my own. My sole problem with scoring an English degree and heading to law school is that it's such a damnably unstable field. If I don't make law school, I don't have anything -- I'll have dropped $50k on a worthless degree.
I don't have the resources for a second chance on this. Whatever degree I get, has to be useful -- right now I'm double-majoring in biology (for practicality) and English (for passion). But I worry that my science prereqs will drag me down -- I can't maintain above a 3.5 with these courses. To give you an idea, here's my grades so far:
Fall 2005: Literature -- A English composition -- A- Calculus -- Pass (I was getting a C, so I pass/failed it) Chemistry I -- C+ Chemistry lab -- C
Spring 2006 Linguistics -- A Spanish -- A- Calculus -- B- Chemistry II -- B Chemistry lab -- B
See a pattern?
The bare minimum requirement for entry to medical school is a 3.5 GPA. I'm hoping to make up for my GPA with an incredible MCAT score (standardized tests are how I made up for my high school GPA), but I'm not cutting it. Next year I take organic chemistry and biology (biology would have been this year, but my advisor apparently wasn't versed in the pre-med track). The year after, molecular/cellular biology and physics. It doesn't get easier than this, and I'm barely scratching above a 3.0.
I made a thread about this earlier, but got caught up in work and lost it. The same's happening now -- I have my calc exam Tuesday, my chem exam Wednesday, and I'm packing up my computer... now. And I need guidance, badly. If you're willing to help me, just name a career -- something, anything -- in law that matches what I've asked for. I hear corporate law gives good hours and good pay, but I know nothing about it.
I really don't know what I'm asking for at this point, but, someone, point? The only stable future I see is in medicine, and I know that can't be as true as it seems. Isn't there anything else?
I'll stay in pre-med for now, until I find better, but if there's any career out there, waiting for me... I could use some help.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I know I'm not Dagonee but since you posted in a forum...
You say law plays to your strengths, could you elaborate more on what those strengths are?
I remember hating math, hating math, hating math, until I realized that math was always going to be there until I finished my AA (weak sauce yes, but..)so I could continue hating math, but it would just made me feel like crap. So while I didn't go around with a smile pasted to my face, I did try to adopt a more healthy outlook on Math and Me.
What do you genuinely enjoy doing? Throw out dollar figures and just think about what you enjoy, because if you don't enjoy it IMO you won't perform as well in whatever you choose contrary to that. (That sentence could have been constructed better. Moving on>>>)
At this point, I would highly recommend you read the following books that could point you in the right direction or bring a little more clarity and perspective. Some people may disagree, that's fine too.
Man's Search For Meaning - Victor Frankl Million Dollar Habits - Robert J. Ringer Rich Dad, Poor Dad - Robert Kiyosaki The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People - Stephen Covey Work From Home at Any Age - J. J. Luna
That last one has the most er...cliched marketing title (?) but it does have some valid and IMO important things to say.
These are "keepers" that I've come across because honestly I'm still figuring out what to do with myself. I don't want to climb up a long ladder only to find it's been leaning on the wrong wall the whole time.
Hopefully Obi-wan Dagonee (hilarious btw) will make an appearance sometime soon.
Well wishes to you.
Posts: 1236 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Consider this: If you aren't enjoying science now, and aren't getting very good grades in it, how do you think that will change in Med school? Med school is ALL science. If you don't enjoy science, and don't do well at it, why would you want to subject yourself to 8+ years of it?
I'll share a secret with you. Your degree doesn't determine your job. I have a degree in English/Creative Writing (completely worthless). I've been a graphic designer, webmaster, network admin, matchmaker, event organizer, and freelance writer, all professionally. I don't make 6 figures, but I'm also not still in Med school, being miserable and wasting the best years of my life working 60+ hours a week doing something I hate.
Here's another tip: Nobody who makes 6 figures works 40 hours a week. Who told you that?
Final tip: You don't have to make 6 figures to be able to do financially all that you mentioned. Depending on where you live and how you budget, you could do all that on 30-40K a year.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Do what you love and what you're good at and the rest will fall into place later. At least, that's how I've always gone about it.
As for law school, take a practice LSAT and see how you do. Kaplan probably offers free ones in your area. You take the test on Saturday and get the results by Monday or Tuesday. It's kind of awesome and will give you a good idea of how you'll score for the real thing. If you're concerned about getting into law school, I would definitely look into it. Law school admission is almost entirely numbers.
Posts: 866 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: -- I want a six-figure salary, and, ideally, a 40-hour workweek.
These are not mutually exclusive, but very very close to it. Law is not going to get you either one right away, either, as I understand it, but I aren't a lawyer so this is hearsay (objection sustained).
But Medical School sure as hell isn't going to get you either one for a *long* time. A guy who was, for a long time, my best friend, is a Resident Orthopedic Surgeon right now. The reason I say "was" is that I've heard from him 3 times since he finished Med School and one of those times was a wedding invitation. He works 70-80 hours a week and does not make 6 figures.
Of course, that will change in about another year when his residency is done, but there are definitely dues (not to mention student loans) to be paid.
If science bores you to the point that you can't make good grades in undergrad studies, I would say you definitely want to avoid medicine as a career field.
Edit to add: the fastest and easiest way to get close to where you want may be to get a cisco networking certification and put in about five good years in a solid network administration or provisioning job. You won't be challenged and you'll almost certainly end up living out some scenes from "Office Space" but, in the end, you'll probably be making close to 6 figures and only putting in about 50 hours a week.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I'll echo what people have said about your career choices. My brother, who got a law degree 10 years ago, spent 3 years working at a private firm, 80-90 hour weeks. Then he took a government job where he works closer to 60 hours a week so that he would have time to start a family. He still has law school debt. Medical training runs similar commitment-wise, from what I understand. If you want to be rich at 50, law school or med school isn't a bad route; if you want to be comfortable at 30 and beyond, you might want to consider something else.
As for Jim-me's advice about getting network certified, that may be currently true, but it seems to me that the networking market is reaching saturation. If you look at this article, it appears the network-style professions aren't seeing the same gains as others.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Law plays to my strengths, and my desires -- I want a six-figure salary, and, ideally, a 40-hour workweek. I want time to spend with a family, and money to help out my parents, and enough left over to make investments of my own.
That's not a law degree. That's a MBA degree with an IT background, like a MIS. You don't do any real work, and make around six figures, and go home while your employees work overtime. The important thing is not to ever actually do any systems or networking stuff yourself, even when starting out, because that's work. If you go straight into administration, that'll bring with it the money and hours you're looking for.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Are you a freshman, Lalo? I see a lot of freshmen in my job as a math/econ/logic tutor, and not only are they often struggling in one of those subjects (obviously), they're often struggling with matching up their career goals to the realities of their classes and grades. The other day, for instance, I talked with a freshman who was hating his Calc I class but wanted to go on to get a Ph.d in econ...
I always suggest that they do some reading on other disciplines during breaks/summer, and then try out the courses that they're most interested in, just "for kicks". Don't read a text book - read a nonfiction book aimed at the general population on different subjects (like Guns, Germs, and Steel by Diamond for cultural anthro). Unless you're planning on getting three majors, a minor, and studying abroad, there's typically room in your schedule to take a few random courses. You normally don't have to worry *too much* about scheduling until second semester soph year.
It seems that all of the courses you've taken, with the exception of Ling (awesome subject, btw), are subjects that are continuations of high school classes. There's so much more to take at the university level! Interested in the big questions of life, morality, or how we come to know stuff? Try philosophy - and, fyi, it's one of the best "prep" majors for law school, should you go that route. Wondering about people's motivations? Try a psych, sociology, religious studies, or anthro class. What do you like to do in your spare time? What type of (non-fiction) books do you like to read? There's almost certainly a field that matches up to your interests - the key is just finding it.
I'm a recently declared philosophy major (also have a major in econ, and, effectively, a major in math) - a lot of my friends from philosophy classes worry (or have parents who worry) about their job opportunities after they graduate. Guess what - you can get *pretty much* any job with any major. Employers care much more about your skill set, your previous work experience, your ability to communicate effectively in writing and speech, and your ability to be trained. A friend who's a English/Philosophy double major is going to be getting a *very good* job in Finance from a banking firm after she graduates - and she's never taken an econ or math class in college. But she has interned with the firm, and they like what they see in her, so they're willing to train her.
Anyways, that's my rather long two cents. Try taking classes you're truly interested in, and don't worry so much about career prospects until a bit later down the road. If you hate sciences classes, and struggle in them, you're not going to like med school. If you major in what you like, then you're going to get good grades - and most employers care more about the signal they get from a high GPA and the fact that you do have a degree than your particular major.
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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Quick note, though: English majors often seem to have trouble adjusting to law school. Students who took lots of science, engineering, symbolic logic, and/or computer science courses (especially with data modeling/analysis) can get a leg up if they can write.
My writing style never clicked with my PoliSci professors; my law professors love it.
A "quality of life" firm will have about 1800 billable hours required each year, which typically requires 2100-2400 hours in the office to accomplish. Over 52 weeks, that's 40-46 hours a week. If you want vacation, each week you want will add a little less than an hour to the rest of the weeks (roughly, of course). If you count in the non-productive and commute time, you're looking at 10-12 hour days plus some weekends. At major market firms, this will get you 6 figures.
To land a major market firm job, there's HUGE benefit to being at a top-10 school. If you have a regional focus, a local top 25-40 school will give you a good shot at such a job in the school's region, although starting salaries might not quite top 6 figures. However, you might only be able to get a non-quality of life firm job starting out. Then count on your hours starting to add up.
Otherwise, you need to be on law review or have something else to make your resume pop to have a good shot at such a job.
I know next to nothing nothing about the job market other than the first job out of law school.
I've got an exam - I'll try to get more later. But, if you can keep a 3.5 GPA and get a 172+ in law school, you will almost certainly get into a law school, and you'll have a decent shot at a top-10 school.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by SenojRetep: As for Jim-me's advice about getting network certified, that may be currently true, but it seems to me that the networking market is reaching saturation. If you look at this article, it appears the network-style professions aren't seeing the same gains as others.
I think what you are seeing there is the effects of the tech slump, which seems to be ending. At any rate, I know there is still high demand for network guys with that magic Cisco cert because there are many jobs that I could have had by now if I had the cert... and to answer the obvious "why don't you get it" question-- I have been far too busy with things more important than work for about 3 years now. It's on the horizon for me...
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
good luck dagonee on the exam.
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quote:I think what you are seeing there is the effects of the tech slump, which seems to be ending. At any rate, I know there is still high demand for network guys with that magic Cisco cert because there are many jobs that I could have had by now if I had the cert... and to answer the obvious "why don't you get it" question-- I have been far too busy with things more important than work for about 3 years now. It's on the horizon for me...
If you get a government job, they'll likely pay you to get the cert.
quote:English majors often seem to have trouble adjusting to law school. Students who took lots of science, engineering, symbolic logic, and/or computer science courses (especially with data modeling/analysis) can get a leg up if they can write.
That's interesting. A friend of mine applied to a bunch of law schools earlier this year, and was offered 50-75% scholarships at USC and Case Western. In contrast, the University of Toronto wanted nothing to do with him on account of his somewhat spotty transcript. This seems to indicate a difference between evaluation criteria for law school candidates: U.S. schools seem to put more weight on what you studied (my friend did engineering at the University of Waterloo, as I did, though he was in a different discipline), whereas Canadian schools put more weight on how you did, and don't seem to consider where you went or what you took.
I guess if I ever want to go to law school, I should look at going south. Like my friend, I have an inconsistent transcript up until fourth year.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Law plays to my strengths, and my desires -- I want a six-figure salary, and, ideally, a 40-hour workweek. I want time to spend with a family, and money to help out my parents, and enough left over to make investments of my own. My sole problem with scoring an English degree and heading to law school is that it's such a damnably unstable field. If I don't make law school, I don't have anything -- I'll have dropped $50k on a worthless degree.
I think you are misunderstanding what your $50K is getting you. Yes, it gets you a diploma that says "English major" or "Chemistry major", but this is one of the least important things you will take from your education. It will matter only in your first few years after graduation, when employers have no other evidence of your skill set, or if you go to grad school - and it will be offset if you get bad grades in an effort to pursue a major you don't really like.
Vastly more important is whatever skill set you are learning. That's what employers really care about, that's the thing that will allow you to be successful, and that's the thing that will allow you to pursue the interests you want to pursue. The way to get a six-figure salary is to be competent in a field where such profits are possible - and there are many fields that qualify: law, medicine, finance, communications, real estate, research, government, consulting, etc. What you major in will not prevent you from succeeding in ANY of these fields, so long as you develop the useful skill sets - and work after graduation to find the right employer for you.
I suspect almost all of these jobs will require long work weeks though. If you want a very high salary, you have to earn it. You don't just get it for having the right degree. There is, however, one way to get a high income without working so long - having your investments do work for you.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Also, I think there are two smart ways to figure out a major:
1. Decide what you are interested in and study that. 2. Decide what career you want and study a major that will lead to that.
However, I think the following strategy is NOT a good way to pick a major.
3. Deciding what major is supposedly practical, and assume that a practical major will lead to a good career.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Just to add... if making $100k a year were as simple as "pick the right field and go", the median income for the country would not be around $50k.
I'm pretty sure six figures puts you in fairly rarified air... which means, by default, that getting there is not easy.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I thought I hated math when I was in college. Now that I'm 35 I would seriously recommend accouning if I could chat with myself. Then my younger self would tell my now self that I was clearly Satan parading as an angel of light. The folly of youth.
And if you want to make good money as a lawyer, I don't think it will be much quality of life at the start. And I'm sorry you're in a school that costs 50K for the undergrad. People go MD/PHD MSTP from crappy schools all the time with a good MCAT. But since you are in a competitive school your GPA might be an albatross.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:This seems to indicate a difference between evaluation criteria for law school candidates: U.S. schools seem to put more weight on what you studied (my friend did engineering at the University of Waterloo, as I did, though he was in a different discipline), whereas Canadian schools put more weight on how you did, and don't seem to consider where you went or what you took.
Oh, they care very much about your grades. I didn't get in right after college in part because I had one semester with a 1.something GPA in my fourth year. The business experience and LSATs made up for it when I applied later, but I was in the bottom 10% or so of my law school class as far as undergrad GPAs go.
The leg up referred to how they did in law school, not getting in. Sorry I wasn't clear.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
To dash off a quick blanket response, since I'm running out the door for a calc review -- yes, I'm a college freshman. Calculus isn't difficult, if I read the material -- but it's stiflingly boring, and as easy as I know it is, I never seem to actually spend time studying it.
The same goes for chemistry and biology. These aren't difficult subjects -- most of it's simple plugging numbers into a few rote equations or memorization of short cycles -- but it's nothing I rush to at the end of a long day.
Heh. Now that I've written that, I really want to deck myself and just get 'er done. I don't know why I'm whining. Nobody from my old neighborhood's had this kind of opportunity, I should be -- I am -- grateful. More than anything, I'm just worried that I'm throwing away that critical high GPA because I'm too pigheaded to stop taking subjects I'm relatively weak in.
I guess what I'm asking is, if I went with an English degree (which would be a very easy 4.0), what could I do with it? And is it worth it to sacrifice that GPA for a significantly lower, but science-intensive, transcript?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Oh, and how do I get a networking cert? I'm actually lined up to get a pretty prestigious job working university IT next year (as in, the dirty underbelly of the campus network, and not reading a book at the front desk of a computer lab), and I think I'll love it -- I spend most of my time perusing tech sites anyway, and a career doing that doesn't sound half-bad. My only real concern is, as Jim mentioned, market saturation (and outsourcing).
I don't know if I'm brave enough to major in computer science, since I don't want to risk unemployment after this very expensive education, but it's definitely a solid side interest. Tom, if you don't mind telling me (on Hatrack or through e-mail), how'd you land your dream of a job?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Tom, if you don't mind telling me (on Hatrack or through e-mail), how'd you land your dream of a job?
Oh, that's not MY job. And I wouldn't want it, either.
MY job's rather less financially rewarding and more stressful. If my boss is any indication, though, you can get HIS job by being mind-blowingly stupid.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Well, you still need to apply somewhere. But you might be too good of a manager to be hired to manage an IT staff.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
(For the record, I had to run an errand I just took care of electronically. The review's at 1:30.)
Tom, as I understand it, you work IT at a major university. That sounds like a dream job to me -- not that your boss' isn't fantastic, but I'm okay with working for a living. Which certs did you pick up, how did you find the job, why did they pick you, what's your SSN and DOB, and am I wrong to think it's a great job?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: Well, you still need to apply somewhere. But you might be too good of a manager to be hired to manage an IT staff.
Yeah, but I figure I'll compensate by sexually harassing my staff.
posted
FWIW, Birch telecomm paid its managers on the same scale as its network provisioners. I have, twice in my life, made more money than my manager.
As for the certification, it's just a matter of taking a test, but you'll want some specialized training. If you no something about networking, a do-it-yourself study program is probably sufficient.
Be sure and read the early bofh stories to prepare you for working in Campus networking.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Lalo, I (someone who loves math) think a lot of people got turned off math and science because they had bad teachers. Then they got behind and didn't learn as much, then that made them hate math more, because they were struggling to understand. Could that be what it is? Could it help to get some tutoring? Most people who struggle in Calculus are really having a hard time with the algebra, not the calculus part. The teachers tend to use algebra with great ease, and skip several steps, and so on. Each level of math you take, you really only learn it well once you're not studying it anymore, but simply using it to accomplish something more. I never learned algebra well really until I had to use it all the time to do Calculus. And calc I truly learned when I was using it to do physics. Differential equations, I didn't have to use for some other class, so I never really learned it very well.
I found that finding a study partner for each class that had regular homework (like most problem solving classes in math and science) really helped motivate me to do the work. Why not ask the smartest girl in each of your math/science classes if she wants to do the homework with you?
It took me a while to figure out how to make good grades in college. It seems a whole lot harder than high school, not because the work is any harder, but because of the amount of self-discipline it takes to go to class every day, and do your homework every night, and to resist all the other more interesting things there are to do, both socially and intellectually.
College requires you to find new strategies to succeed. You might want to look for some other methods of motivating yourself to get the hard work done before you decide you have to take an easier course of study.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I don't have any advice, but I wanted to offer my sympathy. You're an awesom guy, I hope you find something you don't hate doing without too much floudering around in stuff you do hate.
quote:Originally posted by Lalo: The same goes for chemistry and biology. These aren't difficult subjects -- most of it's simple plugging numbers into a few rote equations or memorization of short cycles -- but it's nothing I rush to at the end of a long day.
I know what you meant, but thats not chemistry or biology. Thats, CHEM 101 and BIO 101 (or whatever particular class you're taking.) This is kinda becoming a pet peeve of mine, the problem is that one has to understand that stuff before one can get to the interesting stuff. Admittedly I'm assuming that you would find it interesting if you got to it.
I think this stems from the same place that makes the first words out of someone's mouth when they find out that I studied/study chemistry be about how much they hated it when they took it. Its the 'physics face' without the face or the physics.
/derail
I'd say that you're going to find classes that you don't like no matter the major you choose. You might perhaps find classes you like better than these science classes, but the horrible classes will always be there. And it will always be harder to do the work for those classes.
I don't really have any advice beyond that, but good luck. I though choices like these were hard when I was making them.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Personally, I think anyone who doesn't go into accounting is crazy, especially if they have technical skills. Accounting is the best sort of job there is. It can pay very well, and it is possible to get that good paying job without having to work 80 hours a week.
I know one woman who is about to make partner at her accounting firm...at which point she will be making an estimated $500K/yr. True, she does have to work more than 40 hrs per week, BUT, some of those hours of work can be done from home. And she's not exactly old, either...she's my age (37). She works about 60 hrs a week, but because of her income, her husband can be at home with their baby. They live a very comfortable life.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Personally, I think anyone who doesn't go into accounting is crazy, especially if they have technical skills. Accounting is the best sort of job there is. It can pay very well, and it is possible to get that good paying job without having to work 80 hours a week.
So is it safe to assume you think pursuing anything other than the maximum salary requiring the minimum number of hours at work is crazy? Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Tresopax: So is it safe to assume you think pursuing anything other than the maximum salary requiring the minimum number of hours at work is crazy?
It's certainly the optimal solution if you're trying to minimize the amount of work while achieving a fixed level of material comfort. It all depends on your goals.
I'm going to do a double derail: 1) I think most people, in choosing a profession, try to minimize their individual cost/benefit ratio (or equivalently (for linear cost and benefit functions), maximize the benefit/cost ratio). If someone's only factor in "cost" is number of hours worked, and only factor in "benefit" is monetary compensation, they should try to maximize the ratio of compensation to hours worked. However, I think most people consider many more factors in both "cost" and "benefit" functions. The key to job satisfaction is accurate representation of your cost and benefit functions. That's right, for all you innumerates out there: Math is the answer.
2) I hated EE until I took a class in optimization my Junior year. Until then it was all plugging numbers into equations. That class was like a revelation and I understood the power that those foundational classes had given me. And now I look back at those foundations, with the understanding of the bigger picture, and am amazed at how cool they really are. Except op-amp design; that's really just boring.
posted
I was mostly kidding. After all, I'm not an accountant and would not have found the prospect at all appealing 10 years ago.
Still, if a person's state goals were a relatively easy job with high pay, accounting would be the direction I would suggest, even if they're more a people person than a number person. Every company needs accounting, so it is one of the few professions where you have a real chance to let your ambition set your pay scale.
And Kwea, you're in another profession I think can pay extremely well while working fewer hours. Commissioned sales. That also takes a certain personality to do well, though, IMO. You've got it.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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After packing up my computer, I began a week of all-nighters, one nightmarish sleep-deprived final after another. I've only just today had the chance to sleep again -- and my calculus grade's been posted. C. Jesus christ.
My chem grade'll be higher, but not by much. I'm dropping pre-med. Dag, you said you did poorly your freshman year -- if I can ask, what was your cumulative GPA (at the time of application to law school, particularly)? What was your range of scores on the LSAT? And which do you think is more important to admissions?
I'm an idiot. I should have stuck with my strengths -- I'm switching from a bio/English major to... what? An economics/English major? Computer science/English? What's a practical skill set?
While I'm dreaming, does anyone know the chances of successful application for a job as a professor of American literature (particularly at a UC, and while riding a pony, since I'm dreaming)? I realize that's where every humanities student tries to wind up, because nobody else will hire them, but..
Ugh. I'm going to go kick myself or starving orphan puppies for a while, whichever makes me feel better.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
For the record, I think it was my final -- 40% of my grade -- that destroyed my B. I'm more exhausted than I can put into words. The only way I see to make up for this embarrassing failure is to ace calculus II -- it's not required, but I have no other choice if I'm going to prove to graduate schools that I have the material under control.
I had a higher grade in calculus before I pass/failed it. Unbelievable.
I would kill to become an English professor -- unfortunately, as I understand it, universities are wildly bigoted against that persecuted minority, the "unqualified." How can I change that? Obviously, becoming an author would help (...so, yeah, any minute now) -- what else do they look for in professor? Published, experienced, PhD, low calculus grades...?
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Dag, you said you did poorly your freshman year -- if I can ask, what was your cumulative GPA (at the time of application to law school, particularly)? What was your range of scores on the LSAT? And which do you think is more important to admissions?
I did poorly my first semester fourth year. I brought by GPA down from a 3.325 to 2.8. (If you want to figure out how bad that semester actually was, you'll have to do the math yourself.) This is the GPA that I submitted to law schools. My last semester brought it up to just below 3 (2.95 or something). My LSATs in '91 were 172. I got rejected at UVA, wait listed at William and Mary. I suspect I would have gotten into GMU or Richmond, waitlisted and Washington and Lee. I dropped off the W&M wait list when I decided to start my business.
When I applied 10 years later, I got a 177 on the LSAT (I missed 2 questions, I think). They had also changed how they calculated GPA, so that my A+s counted as 4.3s instead of 4.0s. This raised my GPA above the 3.0 mark, which I think was a huge psychological plus on the admissions committee. Even so, my undergrad GPA is well below the 25 percentile GPA for my class.
With the LSATs, the less mediocre GPA, plus 10 years of running my own business, I got into UVA, Duke, and Washington and Lee (all top 25 schools) plus George Mason and William and Mary. I think the business plus the LSAT were what got me in (plus a kick-ass essay, if I do say so myself ). The grades were simply good enough not to hurt.
You can definitely recover from a bad first year. For two identical GPAs, one with the bad grades concentrated early will be treated better than one with a bad second to last semester. Especially if you can pull off a "Here is where I discovered that I'm not a math person" paragraph in your essay.
Very top LSATs will be do more for you than very top grades, I think. A 171 LSATs and 3.5 gpa plus "something else" (like my business experience) should be enough to get into a top 15 law school. If you can get 173/3.8, you can get into a top 10 school with a standard extracurricular package - something academic oriented like debate, something service oriented, something social or athletic. Distinguishing yourself in some way - publishing, some rare work experience, etc. - then you can lower one or the other.
A top-25 program will almost certainly get you a very good job, especially in the areas that recruit out of yoru school. Top-10 will make it more sure and make your scope national.
Check out "Law School Confidential" by Robert H. Miller if you want an idea of what to expect when applying.
Also, there are admissions boosts for minorities at many top schools if you don't mind using that.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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And Kwea, you're in another profession I think can pay extremely well while working fewer hours. Commissioned sales. That also takes a certain personality to do well, though, IMO. You've got it.
Thanks.
I was told what store they are considering me for, and am waiting for the final decision for the management job I am up for, too.
If I don't get it, I won't be staying at JCPenney, I think. Time to upgrade my earning potential, one way or another. Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I just re-read what I wrote, and I apologize for how brash I come across -- I'm asking a favor of you, not making demands. My only excuse for confusion between the two is weariness and disappointment.
What you wrote gives me hope. Humanities courses are easy A's, and I know I can easily pull off at least a 3.7 next semester. I'll find another major to pair with English (so I have a marketable skill set), but I think I'm doing the right thing. Majoring in a strong subject provides more relief and security than chemistry ever promised.
Thanks, bro. See you in court.
Posts: 3293 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: I want a six-figure salary, and, ideally, a 40-hour workweek.
As a daughter of two lawyers, I roffle at you, sir. Yea, I roffle at yon thoughts of a forty-hour work week.
When my mother stopped working to stay home with my brother and me (right after he was born; I was two, and had been raised by a nanny until that point), my father ended up working ALL THE TIME. And he didn't even work for someone else who could fire him. He worked for himself, and he STILL would leave home before the sun came up and come back around 11pm, if not later. At this point, by the way, he was 49 years old and had been working as a lawyer for quite some time.
If you want a "normal" work week, law is probably not the way to go, and you will be especially miserable during your early lawyering years.
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