posted
Let me just make it clear that I am a temp.
Okay, so Friday after work I go out with some of the coworkers for a few drinks. At any rate, we go out, and by the end of the night I find out that my boss has told everyone else that he and I are on a 'date.' WHAT?
I had no idea that this was what he thought! I thought, okay, I'm going out with a group of coworkers for some drinks. How did that turn into being on a date with my boss? I'm not interested in dating him (or anyone frankly) and I now feel extraordinarily uncomfortable with the concept of returning to this job.
Now because it is temp work, I'm leaning toward calling the temp agency and telling them I can't go back, but I feel like that is going to be an awkward conversation as I imagine they would want some sort of reason why I don't want to go back. My other option is returning and telling my boss that I don't want to date him and hope that isn't awkward.
I'm starting my summer gig teaching musical theater in two weeks and would be changing around the schedule at this job anyway, so is it worth the awkwardness? Am I being childish by wanting to not have a confrontation with this man? I don't want to be a jerk, but this man has very few social skills and is at least 10 years my senior. And really, why did he tell our coworkers we were on a 'date' and not tell me? If he had, this whole awkward situation might have been avoided.
Posts: 511 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I don't know how long you've been at this assignment, and perhaps it doesn't matter. I'm going to guess that this wasn't your first week on site, though, just because I get a vibe saying that this is not the case.
First, document everything that's gone on so far. For example, was there any kind of conversation that took place at the office that might contribute to the situation in any way? What (as close to verbatim as you possibly can) was said to you at the restaurant, by whom, and when?
Then, go back to the temp agency and refuse to return to that assignment. And be completely honest with them as to why. They need to know this, it could be construed as sexual harassment if someone were to choose, and the temp agency does NOT want to be in the position of having placed someone who decides to prosecute because he's done it again.
And if this "boss" ever contacts you, tell him that you have absolutely no interest in pursuing any kind of relationship with him and that he is not permitted to contact you again. and if he does, call the police and file for harassment.
You absolutely should not have to put up with that kind of behavior, and since you were on a temp assignment, I think technically your superior is the agency in regard to grievances. So let them deal with him (or with his bosses) and let them find you something different that will hopefully schedule better with your summer theater needs anyway.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Get the heck out of there. You're not being childish by choosing not to return, and the temp agency would likely not only be understanding if they asked for a reason, but thankful you alerted them to a potentially problematic situation.
edit: I mean, what Goody said Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
What Goody and fugu said, but I don't think you should try to get the boss in alot of trouble. He made a mistake by saying you were on a date but it doesn't sound like he was a jerk or anything. He's probably just socially awkward. It was a stupid thing to say but I don't think you should try to get him in trouble for it.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
No, Gaal...if it were a 15-year old, it might be social awkwardness. In an adult in a position of authority, it is being a jerk at best and is probably actually conscious sexual harassment.
And I cannot re-emphazie enough what Goody said: Document, document, document.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I really don't see at all how it is conscious sexual harassment. I think adults are way to uptight about these things But I'm a teen, what do I know?
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I agree about the documentation and I understand about feeling squicky about the whole thing but I disagree that you should just quit. This could be a simple misunderstanding (meaning the boss was trying to joke around and just has a lousy sense of humor) and I think you should confront him. You could make a joke out of it or say something like, "I heard something strange the other night and I just wanted to know if it was just talk while we were all drinking or what." This is a potentially problematic situation but everyone was out drinking and maybe this was all blown out of proportion. It could have been something little he said in passing like that he thought you were cute and the co-workers just took it and ran with it. It does depend on how long you've been there but I think the stronger thing to do would be to stand up to him and say this is what was said, it makes me uncomfortable to the point that I am thinking of leaving, and it better not happen again.
Posts: 1319 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Yeah, being grown up about it doesn't mean you have to screw up his life. Just talk about it with him, and if things don't change, then you take action.
Posts: 1156 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I would tell the temp agency about what happened and that you are concerned, and let them steer how to deal with it. Since your boss didn't actually come on to you, you don't know if the co-workers are just being jerks, or misunderstanding. I can certainly understand not being comfortable, and if you're only there for another 2 weeks it's probably not a huge deal if you don't go back. But let the temp agency talk to him before you make your decision.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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It doesn't sound like your boss actually tried to pick up on you. At least, you didn't tell us that he actually said or did anything inappropriate to you. Someone else told you something happened.
If he didn't say or do anything to you, you can't be sure if he made a joke and through the grape vine it got turned into something else, or if an upset co-worker is trying to create a situation to get him into trouble, or what actually happened.
I would speak with your boss first. He may not have said anything at all. There's no reason to start filing sexual harassment claims if this guy is innocent of any wrongdoings. At least ask him what happened. Then if it turns out that he is a creep, you can get out of there.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I reread my post, and I realize I was somewhat unclear. (I still have a hard time forming coherent thoughts in writing like this.)
The fact that he told people we were on a date came out in front of the whole group. One of the ladies asked point blank how our date was going. I got a very confused look on my face and said, "We're not on a date." There was a long awkward silence before conversation began again. In other words, he didn't deny it. Ever.
When the group was splitting up, he took me aside and asked if I wanted to go to dinner sometime. He said that he didn't want to let "a girl like you to slip by." The whole night I didn't have the chance to talk to anyone else because he dogged my footsteps. I mean, I would step up to the bar to order a drink and 5 seconds later he would be directly behind me. I tried to walk over and talk to some other people and he would be right next to me. He didn't touch me or anything, but having a shadow isn't exactly great either.
I don't think he's a bad person, I just don't think he knows what he's doing. However, I really can't stomach the idea of having to face this sort of situation. I'm not going the sexual harrassment route, because that is not really what happened.
The thing is, he's the only person I really have contact with throughout the day. It's not a matter of only having to deal with him minimally. Any time I have a question or a problem, he's who I have to go to. I just find it hard to imagine that in this situation there would be no awkwardness.
Posts: 511 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
You need to leave. But don't duck the issue. Explain to the temp agency that you're uncomfortable with the situation. It's unprofessional, but he's not harrassing you or anything. Don't cause any problems for the guy, but at the same time, be honest and forth-right with the agency you actually *work* for. If they hear through the grapevine that something was going on romantically, or that you were on a date, or something, and that's not what you told them.... They'll assume the worst. It's human nature.
Just tell the truth, be yourself, relax, move on to the next job.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Doesn't sound anything like harassment to me, but I can see where there's room to construe it that way.
I think you need to have a conversation with him at the very least, and maybe end up leaving. Explain to him, in private, that there's zero chance of you two ever dating and ask him point blank if he can keep your relationship strictly professional. He might say he can't and that settles it, professionally. If he says he can, and he can, then problem solved. But if he says he can and he can't, then you can take further action.
Has he always been a good boss in the past(I don't know how long you've worked there)? It's possible you might at least owe him a conversation before taking it to any sort of extreme. It sounds like it isn't just a misunderstanding, but it's possible that he might have been drunk, or simply has no idea about what is appropriate socially/romantically in such a situation. Some adults really are that socially inept.
I think you should talk to him, and then take it from there.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Ok so the guy never said that it was a date and maybe the person who said it was the one being the jerk. That person might have known that he was interested in you and wanted to ask you out. What did you say when he asked you out to dinner? Did you tell him no or give some other kind of response? We guys like it when women tell us no they’re not interested instead of trying to spare our feelings with maybes. Sure it was awkward but it sounds manageable for now and why make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
With the clarification, I think even more that letting the temp agency handle it is the way to go. You shouldn't have to "manage" it, that's their job. And any guy who's clueless enough to tell other coworkers that the two of you are on a date without mentioning anything about it to you, it likely wouldn't be productive to have a conversation with him anyway.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Just because the other person called it a date doesn’t mean he did. People do things like that all the time to be funny or mean. You might give him the benefit of the doubt. That whole innocent until proven guilty thing.
Posts: 2845 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Did the boss tell other people that you and he were on a date, or was that someone else saying that? Jay's posts have me totally confused.
This situation could range from mild-to-moderate social ineptness to a serious violation of EEO practices, and I would think a lot depends NOT on your reaction to it, but on what the boss actually did and said.
So far, the inappropriate interaction between the two of you sounds like he was following you and said something about "not letting you get away."
Under those circumstances, in most companies with an active EEO program, you and he could no longer work together. At least not until he stopped making advances to you. But if you welcomed his advances, for example, then the working relationship would have to stop.
Depending on what else happened -- I mean it seems pretty clear that he MUST have shared his feelings about you to at least ONE other person, or blabbed it to the group -- he may have created a working environment in which it is impossible for you to be taken seriously as a coworker (temps are to be the same as any other staff in this respect!).
If you are disciplined at work, it'll be because he was rebuffed. If you get praise it wont be because you earned it, but because he's trying to get you to like him.
Ugh...
My advice is that you should leave.
If you intend to date the man, you must leave.
If you do not intend to date him, you should leave just to save yourself trouble.
I would explain it to the temp agency -- it won't be the first time and they may have some liability to consider if they place other female temps with this employer. (I don't know for sure about their limits of liability).
But I don't see a way for you to continue working there and be considered a professional or be judged on your skills.
Sorry.
If cornered by this boss, you should send him a copy of this post. He may be a really nice guy who just doesn't realize the implications of what he has done. Or he could be a colossal jerk. But either way, repitition of this behavior is bad for his company, and could get their butts sued. And he's being umprofessional.
If he really wanted to date you, he should've explained the situation to you (and you only), including that if you said no he would be on his most honorable behavior. In those circumstances, he shouldn't ask you to leave, but it would've been in your best interests (and that of the company) for you to find a new temp job at the earliest possible time. Under the circumstances where you DID decide to date him, you would have to leave immediately. He should know that. And now that things have gone this far, there's no good option but you leaving (unless he's prepared to quit or transfer -- unlikely...)
This is one good reason why wise people simply don't get into these power-inequality relationships via work. In today's environment someone's going to lose their job, so the relationship had better be REALLY important to both parties before it even starts. How likely is that?
That he didn't talk to you first displays a serious lack of social skills and judgment on his part. I suspect he could use a little education in modern employee/employer relations before he loses his job for doing something really, really dumb.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Jay, but he really does want to date her. What are the chances that the other person was being funny/mean and the boss just coincidentally asked her out the same evening, after acting like he thought they were on a date at the time? (Trying to spend the entire time with her when she thought she was just out with coworkers.) So even if he didn't call it a date to the other person, he said something to a third party about wanting to date her, which, due to his position, was highly inappropriate. And is something the temp agency should deal with. Not her.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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1) He proclaimed this was a date to everyone but you. This demonstrates how high he ranks you and your concerns.
2) He then asks you out with a lame pick-up line. Still not appearing high on the sincerity scale.
3) You are a temp worker. Your return, your being asked to be made permanent, all kinds of other perks and opportunities are in his hands.
4) Even if he is 100% innocent and sincere, any benefit, preferment, or imagined advantage that you earn from this point on, someone else may construe as payment for favors delivered. This opens the company up to possible litigation. You can explain it to your boss as that: You want to save the company from any litigation others may now pursue.
5) The same goes for your temp agency. They may insist that you quit to relieve themselves from any future legal liablility.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
This sounds like textbook harassment to me.
For those who may be in authority positions someday, making romantic advances on your subordinates is a BIG no no.
For thoise that can't understand why, imagine the implied threat here-- if she displeases him in any way, he can make her life miserable or terminate her. It's doubly bad because she's a temp and has almost no protection because she can be let go without any cause whatsoever.
Luet, it is absolutely essential that you document this immediately.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I disagree about the whole "this is harassment and you need to document it" thing.
Are we keeping in mind what harrassment might actually mean for this guy? There's no inappropriate touching, here, no unwelcome advances being continued after an initial rebuff, there are no inappropriate or lewd things being said here....
Just liking a subordinate is not sexual harassment.
Sounds like he's guilty of some very poor judgement. No need to ruin the guy's career over it. (At least -- not yet).
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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I agree with TL that it isn't sexual harassment. However, I don't think the way things happened was appropriate either. Jay, there is no question in my mind that he thought it was a date. He did not deny that was what he thought at any point, even when it was brought up in the group (with him present) and I was obviously flummoxed and stated out loud that I didn't know it was a date.
I called the temp agency this morning and my rep is going to discuss it in a meeting and get back to me in an hour. I told her that I don't want this to hurt the guy, he is a nice guy just socially inept, but I don't want to go back either.
This whole situation sucks majorly. I liked the job, but I really don't see how it would be okay to return. I'd rather look for another job. Hopefully one where I can work without having to deal with romantic advances.
Posts: 511 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Are we keeping in mind what harrassment might actually mean for this guy? There's no inappropriate touching, here, no unwelcome advances being continued after an initial rebuff, there are no inappropriate or lewd things being said here....
But harassment is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. If an employee feels harassed, (s)he has grounds for a complaint and every right to demand the offensive behavior be terminated. The alleged harassser may not have intended their actions in the way that they are received, but that doesn't change the fact that the receiver felt intimidated by it.
And we don't truly know that this was an initial advance. Luet might not have clued into prior attempts, or she might not be sharing something that happened prior to the night out with the team.
I don't know specifically about a harassment complaint, but every company I've worked for has taken a "verbal-written-discipline" approach to employee concerns. First offense: meeting regarding the situation, verbal warning and plan for change. Second offense, meeting, written warning. Third offense, punitive action of some more permanent sort.
If this is the boss' first notified offense, then it won't "ruin his career" and might be what he needs to realize how he comes across. If he's a repeat offender, he needs to be stopped before it does turn into a lawsuit.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Sounds to me like this guy is kind of clueless with women, but trying to get your attention at an after work function, even if he's not very good at it, doesn't sound like harassment.
I think the best course of action is just to tell the temp agency you were uncomfortable and move on to a new job.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
He's her boss. You don't *date* people over whom you have power. The very relationship itself is harassment.
Do you guys not understand the kind of power a boss has, especially over a temp? as in one word and she's gone?
Think about it. A near-stranger comes up to you and asks you for a date, except they can fire you if you say "no", or anything else you don't like. I hate sexual harassment law as it stands in this country and I've been formally accused of it for no more than doing a double-take at an inappropriately clothed co-worker. I am not a fan of crying harassment.
And I'm telling those of you who don't seem to yet know, that this is extremely inappropriate. I can only hope that those of you defending this guy will learn from his mistake and never try anything like this-- it will get you fired and your company sued to the gills in short order.
If you want to date someone under your power, recuse yourself from the position or transfer them to someone else, first.
And as Goody Scrivener said, she won't ruin the guy's career if he hasn't been counseled before-- she may be saving it because he *will* be educated on this in short order, one way or another.
posted
Look, I *am* a boss. And although I totally agree that this guy is inappropriate and unprofessional and that Luet needs to move on, I don't agree that this constitutes harassment.
It is not illegal to date someone under your command. Unethical? Absolutely. I'd never do it. But against the law? No. Just *liking* someone under his command is not the same thing as sexual harassment.
I won't repeat my previous arguments or my previous advice.
In fact, I'm not sure why I'm doing it now... Think I'll step aside, here.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:I don't know specifically about a harassment complaint, but every company I've worked for has taken a "verbal-written-discipline" approach to employee concerns. First offense: meeting regarding the situation, verbal warning and plan for change. Second offense, meeting, written warning. Third offense, punitive action of some more permanent sort.
If this is the boss' first notified offense, then it won't "ruin his career" and might be what he needs to realize how he comes across.
For the record, it's the same at my company -- although there are a few situations where the written counseling is out the window. Theft is one, sexual harassment is another.
I've been in the position twice, now -- once of having to report harassment and getting involved in the investigation (which sucked) -- and once of having harassment reported to me when I was directly in charge of the alleged harasser.
Both people were fired. There were no warnings.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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The point of most EEO programs I've been associated with is to ensure that when the company is sued, the employee isn't able to point to ongoing lapses or improper behavior.
Most of these situations boil down to "he said/she said" but if an employee comes before an arbitrator with corroborating evidence of public statements by her supervisor, then her claims for damages gain a lot of credibility.
In most cases, the employee doesn't get (isn't entitled to much) even if they win the case. They could get their job back, with back pay, usually...if they win. But even that is "damaging" to a company because it means they can't fire people when they decide they need to, and they have to spend money defending their practices before an arbitrator or review board.
Now, in rare instances the company will get sued for damages. I don't know how that works, to be honest, but those big-buck settlements are bad, but also there's the publicity. And the court expenses are higher than the expenses for handing a case in front of a review board.
Usually, therefore, companies go to great pains to train supervisors on what are considered inappropriate interactions. They will, indeed, teach them that pursuing romantic relationships with subordinates is against company policy and can be cause for a harassment complaint. The reason isn't that it's harassment in the physical sense, but that it gives the employee ammunition in any future case against the company.
Frankly, I think this kind of thing would fall well within the obvious definitions of a a hostile work environment. Knowing that the boss wants to date you makes it a very uncomfortable place for a person to work.
Harassment, in the sense of requiring her to date him or lose her job, is going to be the presumption of what happened if she were ever to be fired, or even if she got a poor job evaluation.
If it came out in a hearing that he told other workers at an after-work gathering that the two them were on a date, the company would much more likely to lose the case.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I'm not sure I disagree with anything you just said, Bob, but I'm also not sure what you're responding to.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Look, I *am* a boss. And although I totally agree that this guy is inappropriate and unprofessional and that Luet needs to move on, I don't agree that this constitutes harassment.
It is not illegal to date someone under your command. Unethical? Absolutely. I'd never do it. But against the law? No. Just *liking* someone under his command is not the same thing as sexual harassment.
It was this. I don't know about "illegal" since that varies from state to state, but I agree I haven't seen outright laws banning people marrying their subordinates.
I was just commenting that EEO processes aren't necessarily about sticking to the letter of the law, but staying far enough away from boundaries to help ensure that a review panel or arbitrator isn't going to side with the person filing the complaint.
It doesn't always work out that way, but it's a lot more likely that a company will "lose" one of these things if the supervisor was publicly enamored of his subordinate.
Sounds like you've already agreed with that POV, though.
So, yeah, I'm not sure what I was responding to either.
Just a quick point-- there is "illegal" and then there is "civil liability".
Sexual Harassment is much more often put into the latter category. I don't think the guy deserves even a misdemeanor charge, but he'd better back way off or his company *will* get sued, eventually.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
That's speculation. I wasn't trying to address what may or may not happen to this guy's company at some point in the future regarding what might happen *if* his behavior continues with other women.
I was trying to give Luet some advice about how to handle this specific situation.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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