posted
To be fair, once they found out, they fired him and pulled all 930 of his pictures. Dunno if you can really implicate Reuters - it's not like they asked him to doctor his photos.
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posted
Well according to the link, it's not just one photographer, or one news agency even. And the site does make a convincing case for photo-fraud. Regardless of the politics around these particular photos, it would be nice to see this followed up by news agencies "cleaning house" and at least trying to regain some semblance of objectivity and honesty.
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: To be fair, once they found out, they fired him and pulled all 930 of his pictures. Dunno if you can really implicate Reuters - it's not like they asked him to doctor his photos.
It isn't just about Hajj. Did you read the page?
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posted
Maybe it's just me, but I commented to my mom last night, while watching the TV news -- that there sure seems to be LOTS of video coverage shown of all the destruction in Lebanon, but they are hardly showing any video of the Israel side - the aftermath of the Hezbollah bombing there. Are there only reporters on one side of the line?
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Wow, very disturbing. It'd be nice if they used it to clean house, as Karl said, but I suspect they'll just be smarter and more careful with the fraud in the future.
It seems like there really out to be special penalties against the press that abuses their freedom to spread lies.
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Sorry, Lisa. I had read a couple articles about it yesterday, and incorrectly assumed that was a link to the same story.
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NP. There does seem to be a sense of deja vu in the various types of deception being perpetrated.
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posted
I'm not sure if I'm going to say this just to annoy Lisa, or if I really believe it, but...
While I think those pictures are reprehensible, and those responsible should be fired immediately (and if it's possible, blacklisted from news outlets, not really sure how that works, but dishonest reporting like that should mean a life time ban)...
I have to say that the some outrage is justified, but try not to go overboard. At the end of the day, the fact is that the buildings are still flattened, the people are still dead. I think due punishment should be exacted on all those responsible for this, but I don't think it takes all that much away from the ultimate message the pictures are trying to portray.
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posted
We don't know that the people are still dead. We've seen Green Helmet Guy waving corpses around in multiple pictures, but they're all the same corpse. And we don't know that it came from that building. And we don't know how the building fell. And we can't believe a damned thing that they say, so I don't think any outrage is justified in our direction.
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posted
Really? So Reuters screws up, then comes right back and removes all information that was proven wrong...
And that automatically disproves EVERYTHING said by EVERY other news agency on EARTH?
Skynews, BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, MSNBC, Fox, AP, all of them, all wrong because Reuters was proved dishonest.
I mean, I guess we'd better stop reading western news entirely and just read YOUR Israeli news sources right? That's the most fair and balanced way to do it.
edit to add: I meant that some outrage from us towards them was justified, not any outrage to non-news sources.
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posted
Well, actually, to a point you're right that it disproves almost everything (even though you were saying it satirically)
Having worked in the news industry, I can say that all those news outlets SHARE information greatly. So yes, what Reuters does, DOES, in fact, effect CNN, and MSNBC and FOX and all the others who pick up Reuters releases, etc. Most of the major news organizations rely on Reuters and AP for breaking stuff.
That's why when ONE thing gets distorted, it creates a snowballing effect that makes it almost impossible to fix (this is why there are so many urban legends).
I do think this has bigger consequences than many people realize.
posted
You also have to take into account media releases like this where the Lebanese PM made a statement that an Israeli airstrike killed 40 people...
quote:"An hour ago, there was a horrific massacre in the village of Houla in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing", Siniora told the meeting. "If these horrific actions are not state terrorism then what is state terrorism?" he asked rhetorically.
He later admitted the death toll was only 1 person.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: Maybe it's just me, but I commented to my mom last night, while watching the TV news -- that there sure seems to be LOTS of video coverage shown of all the destruction in Lebanon, but they are hardly showing any video of the Israel side - the aftermath of the Hezbollah bombing there. Are there only reporters on one side of the line?
Israel gives plenty of warning before it drops bombs or blows things up. Hezbolah rockets can hit anywhere in northern Israel at any time and they often do not have an intended target.
As a reporter what would you be more afraid of? The Israeli airforce or Hezbolah rockets?
As for Reuters. They certainly do not have time to carefully examin every photo they receive for evidence of photoshopping or tampering. The fact that people were calling for the suspension of the photographer, and Reuters simply fired him, and said they will not work with him again, indicates that they are interested in presenting the news, and not in any slanted way.
I still trust Reuters, they did not try to weasel out of this one. They took responsibility and made the neccesary steps to rectify the problem. It was 2 photographs, and we do not even know if any news agencies picked up the photographs.
posted
Did you read Lisa's article? It was a lot more than 2 pictures.
If these pictures are faked, why should I trust reporters that quote unnamed sources or quote some dirt farmer in Lebanon? How much easier is it to fake words than photographs. The fact that photographs are being used dishonestly really makes me legimately question the integrity of the entire business.
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posted
That highlights what I didn't like about the initial link. I think the evidence is exactly right - those photos were faked in way or another.
I didn't like the possible reasons for it, because it left out the most obvious - those pictures made for more exciting copy, which sells more papers. It isn't necessary for anyone to be in cahoots with Hezbollah for that to occur. It's much more likely that it was done out of self-interest than out of loyalty to a foreign organization.
quote:They certainly do not have time to carefully examin every photo they receive for evidence of photoshopping or tampering.
Yes, they do. If they are not able to at least give it a glance to ensure they aren't printing fake news, then they need to reorganize their business. That's part of the freedom of the press. It's a powerful pulpit, and that means those who use it have a responsibility.
The photoshopped ones especially were embrassing. As a Photoshop user, I'm ashamed of the photographer. He's not very good - there are much better ways to darken and fake smoke.
quote:I think due punishment should be exacted on all those responsible for this, but I don't think it takes all that much away from the ultimate message the pictures are trying to portray.
Of course it takes away from the 'ultimate message', which is supposed to be "we will tell you what was said and done in places you cannot be." The truth, in other words.
Any 'ultimate message' you're hinting at is political, and not objective as news outlets should strive towards. You're trying out for the limbo championships when you suggest people shouldn't be too outraged, Lyrhawn.
In fact, the people who should be most outraged are those the pictures were (possibly) doctored to help-Lebanese people. By being provably fraudulent as they are, it casts further doubt on the Lebanese side of things in the future and lends credibility to the Israeli take on things.
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posted
I think, personally, that Hezbollah and its ilk are much more sophisticated when it comes to public relations than most of us give them credit for. Beyond the doctored photos, which were reprehensible, Hezbollah has made it a point to keep the camera on their plight.
But, by the same token, it is chafing with their general nature. Journalists have been threatened implicitly when they filmed the launching of rockets.
Honestly, I believe Hezbollah is acting like a popular bully after he's been hit in the nose. He's screaming and grabbing attention, pointing that all the blame is on the little kid who stood up to him.
I'm so deeply moved by the civilian casualties, they disturb me greatly. But does a Hezbollah member count as a civilian since they aren't part of a recognized army?
And last night on the news, a military expert said that the Israelis have actually been running into elements of a frontline Iranian infantry division. I'm not sure if it is true, but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility. All of those weapons made it into Lebanon, surely "advisors" could have come with them.
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quote:He's screaming and grabbing attention, pointing that all the blame is on the little kid who stood up to him.
It's actually more like the little annoying troublemaker who kicks the big kid in class, then makes a huge fuss about how the kid hit him back, hoping to get him in trouble. Of course, as soon as the teacher looks away, the little brat invariably kicks him again.
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posted
This is a huge scandal and it’s not just limited to Reuters. Time Magazine’s coverage is also in question. It’so-clear-staged-its-a-wonder-they-bought-it Lebanese Pieta picture. http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005687.htm There’s also the U.S.News cover-photo of a Hezbollah armed-terrorist in front of what the magazine purported to be the burning ruins of a downed-Israeli fighter, only there was no downed fighter and it was a garbage dump that was burning.
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The response is horrifying and out of proportion, and it is unfortunate that this situation has gotten to this point.
However, the second article is on point, in my opinion. If Israel lets up and backs off, it is a great victory for Hezbollah. They withstood the might of the west and lived to launch their rockets another day - even better, making their opponent look weak and heartless in the process.
What Lebanon should do is ally with Israel in their efforts to root out and eliminate Hezbollah. The Lebanese military should strike at Hezbollah targets they know to exist to show Israel and the world that it is not afraid to cut out the cancer in its own country. It should share intelligence with Israel about known Hezbollah agents and coordinate efforts to stop the attacks on Israel from within its own borders.
Instead, Lebanon is calling for ceasefires and withdrawl and effectively protecting the terrorists in their midst.
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posted
The article starLisa put up was a very interesting one. I feel it speaks the truth about what sadly will have to happen.
And I really feel that we, the US, shouldn't interfere. On behalf of either side. We can't shield Hezbollah and let them go on to terrorize another day. And we can't help Israel, either. Israel has to, and will, fight this on its own, showing that it can and will defend itself with or without outside support.
And they have to do it so that down the road, some anti-Israel group can't say, "they only survived before because the US stepped in."
Sad, but true, when someone calls for war and provokes it, they often get exactly what they were asking for.
And don't expect Lebanon's Prime Minister to force Hezbollah out, just remember what happened to the last one when he tried to sever ties with Syria.
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quote:Israel's enemies do not permit it a proportional response.
I dislike this - it is denying responsibility for their own choices. If the choices are justified, then they need to claim them.
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Actually, I don't see the Israelis hedging their actions or being apologetic. I believe their continued actions speak as their claim to being proportionate to the threat they have faced.
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quote:Originally posted by BaoQingTian: Did you read Lisa's article? It was a lot more than 2 pictures.
If these pictures are faked, why should I trust reporters that quote unnamed sources or quote some dirt farmer in Lebanon? How much easier is it to fake words than photographs. The fact that photographs are being used dishonestly really makes me legimately question the integrity of the entire business.
I read an article about it, then saw lisa's post, THEN went to her link which was more expansive. I must confess the NYT's section made me raise an eyebrow.
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posted
What's interesting is that the government of Israel gets a lot of its information from the news. As a result, they apologize for things before they've even had a chance to check and see if there's something to apologize for.
If that seems unlikely to you, let me tell you about the first Gulf War. I was living in Jerusalem at the time, and they'd distributed boxes with gas masks and epipens and the like after Iraq invaded Kuwait and Bush Sr. had given his ultimatum.
The first time Saddam shot scuds at us, this is how I found out about it.
My cousin Jeff, in Washington DC, was watching CNN when the first scuds were fired. He picked up the phone and called my cousin Kevin, who was also living in Jerusalem. He woke Kevin up and told him Saddam had fired missiles at us. Kevin then got off the phone, and called me, waking me up as well. He told me that Jeff had called him to tell him that he'd seen scuds being launched at us on CNN. While I was talking to Kevin, the air raid sirens went off.
So whatever people think about Israel's intelligence or early warning capabilities, I'm here to tell you that they really aren't all that sharp.
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posted
It's my understanding that quite often for governments throughout the world, CNN and other 24/7 news sources are the first source heard.
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Not in my mind. There is always the other option, in fact I believe you've mentioned it before-capitulation and departure.
I do credit that as a possible option in the sense that I believe there are always choices...but there are some choices, even when present, I don't expect a reasonable person to make, or be morally required to do so.
Aside from the point that getting up and leaving becomes less and less tolerable after being booted or burned or exterminated out of so many other homes in the past millenia.
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posted
few random thoughts/questions regarding this.
I used to consider Reuters a respectable news agency much like the AP, but now see them alot closer to National Enquirer instead. Has this always been the case?
Also, the press is generally considered the governments watchdog. What happens when an organization like Reuters apparently goes bad like this? I don't know if other news agencies will run major stories on it because I am under the impression that other companies purchased stories from Reuters. Its mainly been bloggers who are talking/running this story. Companies like CNN and MSNBC may be hesitant to run any story critical of a key supplier.
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quote:Originally posted by TrapperKeeper: I used to consider Reuters a respectable news agency much like the AP, but now see them alot closer to National Enquirer instead. Has this always been the case?
Yes, it's pretty much always been the case. At least in two areas. One is that whenever you read a small article that sounds like something they'd love at News of the Weird, you can bet 9 times out of 10 that it's a Reuters piece. And the other is that Reuters has always had a very strong anti-Israel agenda. But then, so does the BBC.
quote:Originally posted by TrapperKeeper: Also, the press is generally considered the governments watchdog. What happens when an organization like Reuters apparently goes bad like this? I don't know if other news agencies will run major stories on it because I am under the impression that other companies purchased stories from Reuters. Its mainly been bloggers who are talking/running this story. Companies like CNN and MSNBC may be hesitant to run any story critical of a key supplier.
It will blow over. The MSM has too much to lose if they don't minimize this and make it seem like a minor glitch that was fixed right away.
In the end, there will be slightly more people who will know to take Reuters reporting with a grain of salt, and slightly more (but fewer) who will recognize that the MSM isn't quite as objective a source as it claims to be. That's a good thing, in my opinion.
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quote:I think due punishment should be exacted on all those responsible for this, but I don't think it takes all that much away from the ultimate message the pictures are trying to portray.
Of course it takes away from the 'ultimate message', which is supposed to be "we will tell you what was said and done in places you cannot be." The truth, in other words.
Any 'ultimate message' you're hinting at is political, and not objective as news outlets should strive towards. You're trying out for the limbo championships when you suggest people shouldn't be too outraged, Lyrhawn.
In fact, the people who should be most outraged are those the pictures were (possibly) doctored to help-Lebanese people. By being provably fraudulent as they are, it casts further doubt on the Lebanese side of things in the future and lends credibility to the Israeli take on things.
So, you think that there really isn't a problem in Lebanon? People are happily skipping through the streets of Beirut on their way to bomb shelters with all that warning they get from the nice Israeli F-16s overhead. Their really aren't any bombed out apartment buildings, or dead civilians, or destroyed roads and bridges, or power stations, or ambulances, or etc. etc.
If you think all of that is true, or that all of that is purely a political message, then you must REALLY think I'm brainwashed by the media. I agree that the Lebanese people should be more angry at the faked up photos, and for the same reason, because it gives people like Lisa a chace to exclaim "See! It's NOT as bad as they say it is," before they launch into their "they deserve it anyway," speech.
Doctored photos that add smoke and such to a picture doesn't take anything away from the fact that there was smoke there to begin with, that bombs fell over Beirut to begin with, using the same smashed building in a photo twice in two weeks doesn't remove the fact that the same building was already smashed up.
I also don't buy, whoever said it, that everyone gets their news from Reuters and AP. Yes, I agree that to BEGIN WITH, they might, because they have sources everywhere to start with, and can be in more places, and get more stuff out. But THIRTY days after a crisis begins, everyone in the world who has the capacity already has stuff at the situation, they have their own cameras, and their own reporters, photographers, networks, etc. Trying to put a black mark on everyone just because one of the first responders screwed up is ridiculous.
Any btw Lisa, the analogy in that article is horrible. The better analogy is that the little guy picks a fight with the big Marine, and then the Marine responds by beating the ever loving hell out of EVERYONE ELSE in the bar instead of the guy who picked it, who ran to the bathroom whilst the Marine wasn't looking.
I'm pissed that these guys faked up those photos, for the reason I agreed with you earlier on Rakeesh, but that doesn't mean I'm going to forget the fact that civilians are still dying, ambulances ARE being bombed, people are cutoff from escape, the infrastructure of what was a recovering nation is blown to hell, and the entire population is suffering more than just fear of a possible missile strike.
THAT is the ultimate truth, and while there IS political hay to be made from it, reality, the original photographs, isn't inherently political.
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posted
What's interesting about reading Lyrhawn's post is that in EVERY rebuttal he attempts to make, he misrepresents what the point was of the original poster.
This is the moment these threads usually go off track, and become about everybody trying to explain and defend their original positions..
"I never said they deserved it."
"I never said the Lebanese were happy about the bombings."
"I never said everyone gets their news from Rueters and AP."
"I never tried to put a black mark on everyone."
"I never made that analogy."
etc.
I wonder if it's a willful distortion by one indvidual in an actual ATTEMPT to throw the thread off course, or if it is more of an unrealized thing.
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