posted
I drove home from work on Friday and parked the car in my usual spot in the drive behind my house. On the way in I had spotted a guy doing sidewalk/curb repair on my street. I need some sidewalk/curb work done so I got out of my car and walked 50 feet or so to the corner and crossed the street where the man was working. As I was approaching him a car drove past. It looked like it was full of either older teens or young guys. Anyway, one of them stuck his head out the window and yelled "Nice hair, ya f***ing faggot!" I flipped him off in return.*
I was a bit shocked since I have lived here for two years and never have I seen any blatant homophobia or heard of any hate motivated actions against homosexuals. Chris and I have gotten the occasional glares in the Wal-Mart, but I haven't even noticed that in over a year.
Anyway, I've been surprised at how this has affected me. Chris and I took my Mom and my Aunt out to dinner for my Aunt's birthday almost immediately after the incident. Throughout the whole evening every time the conversation would lapse or I got an undistracted moment, I'd get a lump in the pit of my stomach. I sat in the restaurant wondering how many people there were offended by my presence.
One thing that made it worse was that I don't really know how they *knew* I was gay, anyway. I'm fairly certain I'm pretty low on the gaydar spectrum. I do have a fairly discreet rainbow sticker on my car, but I wasn't at my car at the time, and the guys in the car wouldn't likely have seen it from their approach anyway. So now I'm paranoid, wondering if they know where I live, and if so, is it because of my car? We've had two holiday flags stolen in the past year. Are the events related? Should I be worried for my car when I'm home or house when I'm not?
It seems like such a stupid little thing and I keep telling myself it's just a bunch of stupid high school kids having "fun" at my expense, but if that's the case, it bothers me even more that I feel as angry and violated as I do. I'm not sure why I'm even posting this. I'm not looking for "poor KarlEd" responses, anyway. Maybe it's just personal therapy to get it "out there" and thus let it go. Who knows. Anyway, it's almost a week later and my little haven isn't quite as pretty as it was in my delusions and it makes me sad.
*Yes, I know. Very immature of me. I feel like crap about it and after the fact I can think of a dozen better reactions including completely ignoring them. I felt like crap for giving in to the impulse, and the first thing Chris said was "you shouldn't have done that" and I felt like crap again, so please, no lectures on the finger, ok?
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Are you sure they knew you were gay? A lot of (stupid) people use "fag" as a non-sexual-orientation-related insult. They might call everyone with a haircut they dislike that. It's still a crappy thing to have happen, but that at least makes it less ominous.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Dec 2005
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It seems at least somewhat likely to me that the teenagers were using "faggot" as a general invective, rather than directing it at you specifically. I mean, it's an unfortunate fact that homosexual slurs are frequently used by teenage boys as a way of demeaning others without any direct implication. That said, 1) I'm sure you've had the same thought and 2) I'm sure it does nothing to alleviate the distress you're feeling. I'm truly sorry for what happened to you, Karl. I wish there were something I could do or say to help.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I will add my voice to the chorus of those who suggest that those <insert whatever here> didn't really know your orientation. I remember a time when Ron used to get gay slurs yelled at him from passing cars, even when we were walking together, holding hands. (He's a tall guy, and in his youth tended to wear fashionable clothing and have hair that even girls envied, so it might be just a pretty boy thing.)
Once we were in a parkinglot near an intersection (about to get in our cars and go our separate ways, because were just dating and had been to a movie) and he kissed me goodbye. Someone yelled something along the lines of "Whooo-eee! Getcha some, fag!" I promise I wasn't being mistaken for boy, either.
I guess my point is that they probably didn't know, or care. Even if they did (which is a huge if, in my book) you can't live in fear.
Unmated late adolescent boys are like apes-- they just wander around in groups flinging poo. Don't let it get you down.
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I know you're not asking for sympathy. I wish I had something more useful to offer instead. ((((KarlEd))))
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posted
Buy pepper-spray. Anyone who feels uncomfortable arming themselves with a firearm and training themselves to use it should own and carry pepper-spray.
It's easy to use, completely effective (against humans and animals) and nonlethal (for considerations of your assailant or if you get it taken away from you and used on you). Inexpensive, legal, easy to find, compact...
If you are having some fear about your safety, there is nothing like have a plan, having a defense.
I give pepper-spray out about twice a year to my friends and family.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Yeah, you're probably right about the randomness. I guess my issue is more my reaction to it than the thing itself.
I have to wonder, though, how many sexually confused (or confirmed gay) teens live in hell because of the pervasive meme of their sexuality being such a casual and obvious negative. (I can't answer that myself because in my private teen hell questions of being gay were buried way at the bottom of the list.)
I wonder how many parent discourage such random use of the word, and now many are secretly pleased, taking it as an indication that their sons are not "that way".
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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They don't have to know that you are gay. "Gay" is more commonly becoming a derogatory or sarky term which isn't strictly tied into sexuality.
Worst thing is that my gay friends have me doing it all of the time. A tv show we're watching is gay. A C on a paper is gay. The stunt I just pulled off in a video game is gay. Of course, in their case, it's a hilarious means of attempting to disempower the word.
Of course, they also have me saying 'fag' and 'santorum.' Gay may be getting a little tame!
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Stone_Wolf, I'm not worried about my safety 'cause I'm a pretty big guy. I'm mostly a teddy-bear, but there's a grizzly in here somewhere on stand-by.
I carried pepper-spray in Baltimore, though. (Inner-city and all.)
What I do worry about sometimes (and pepper-spray won't help) is random maliciousness or damage to my property. That's happened before, (not here, though) and it's almost impossible to prosecute.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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I'm assuming it's referring to Rick Santorum, though I may be mistaken.
Karl, I think it absolutely sucks that it happened. It makes me really mad on your behalf (though I know you aren't looking for sympathy). People like that make me want to go be a hermit somewhere, because at times it feels like there's far too many people like that. (even though I think Olivet is right about them being like apes flinging poo.)
(Also, as an aside, while maybe the finger wasn't the best of reactions, I think it's completely understandable and would probably have been my response too, in your place.)
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by KarlEd: I'm not looking for "poor KarlEd" responses, anyway.
Poor KarlEd.
quote:Originally posted by KarlEd: *Yes, I know. Very immature of me. I feel like crap about it and after the fact I can think of a dozen better reactions including completely ignoring them. I felt like crap for giving in to the impulse, and the first thing Chris said was "you shouldn't have done that" and I felt like crap again, so please, no lectures on the finger, ok?
You gave them the FINGER?!?
Really, how dare you.
Sorry about the incident. Whether or not it was deliberately homphobic, it still isn't something anyone would like to happen to them.
quote:Originally posted by Olivet: Unmated late adolescent boys are like apes-- they just wander around in groups flinging poo. Don't let it get you down.
Yep, that's me. However, in the absence of poo, we ULAB (Unmated Late Adolescent Boys) have been known to throw stupid insults.
posted
I hope it doesn't happen again. Do you live in an area w/ a large gay community--somewhere that teenagers might go cruising to do just that sort of stupid thing? (I was going to ask if you live in Dupont Circle because for some reason I thought you were in DC, but your profile says PA . . . is that an old profile or just a total misconception on my part?)
Anyway, not that the neighborhood would, of course, in any way justify the vile behavior of the young men in the car. Just thought it might shed some light on their assumptions. Although, like everyone else said, I do recall "faggot" being flung around as an all-encompassing negative term ever since I was a kid, and I still hear it that way.
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
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santorum- the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex.
Etymology- popularized by Dan Savage, of the sex advice column "Savage Love".
http://www.spreadingsantorum.com/ (On cursory examination, link contains no profanity, though following the links on the page will lead you to some. No dirty pictures, but probably not very worksafe).
Posts: 866 | Registered: Dec 2003
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The Savage definition of "santorum" is now my primary referrant for the word, which has made following the election news particularly interesting.
But I'm disappointed. I saw the title of this thread and hoped to read about some hot girl-on-girl action...
(What? Just me?) Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
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That said, <snort> I did come into work on Monday and ask a straight co-worker "Does my hair look gay?"
quote:I guess a big dog would cause more problems than is solved as far as protecting the house :\.
Well, my cats would object, especially when I started training them to take the blasted thing out for his walk.
<--- not a doggie person.
And I'm not going to actually do anything based on this event. I'm just musing about the emotional component to my reaction that is totally ignoring my rational side.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Uprooted, I live in a small town in PA. (Hanover). I used to live in Baltimore until 2 years ago. I've never lived in DC, but I have friends there and often make the trip down when Hatrackers are nigh.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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He said "No" and then reassured me that if I'd quit calling Chris "poo-bear" when he called the office he'd never know I was gay.
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It must've been the Jatraquero gathering discussions that gave me that idea. I think I've been to Hanover . . . but not 100% sure. I've often thought that a smallish town in Pennsylvania would be a nice place to live. For a while I harbored a desire to work for Rodale Press in Emmaus. But now I'm acclimated to GA winters so it just sounds too cold to me.
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Hanover is nice. It's quiet and housing dollars go farther than anywhere further south. It is a pretty small town, though. And I live on the corner of two of the busiest streets.
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Ron once sent a card to my parents' house addressed to "Boo-bear". Papa teased me about that forever.
But I'm just as bad, calling Ron "Honeypot" often gets the giggles from people. I just tell them I only call him that so I don't mix him up with any of my other husbands. (That joke got a LOT less funny when his younger brother moved in with us to be closer to his college, among other things.)
Uprooted, we should have a Georgia get-together in the spring before Ben and Lindsay move.
Posts: 9293 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Is that "poo-bear" or "pooh-bear"? (In light of some comments in the thread.... )
My 8-year-old son came home and said, "Mom, my friend called me a name and I think it's a bad word but I don't know what it means."
His friend called him "faggot." I had to try to explain that it was a very rude word, and what it meant, and that it was a word he shouldn't ever use, and there were other less-rude words to refer to the same thing if it was necessary. But I just wasn't quite ready to have this conversation with my son. <sigh>
I know how you feel about letting it get to you - and knowing all the explanations in your mind, but still having that horrible feeling in your gut about it that takes too long to go away. There's probably nothing different about your community today than before, but it's too bad your feelings about it had to change. Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Worst thing is that my gay friends have me doing it all of the time. A tv show we're watching is gay. A C on a paper is gay. The stunt I just pulled off in a video game is gay. Of course, in their case, it's a hilarious means of attempting to disempower the word.
Of course, they also have me saying 'fag' and 'santorum.' Gay may be getting a little tame!
I've been thinking about this since I read it, and I don't see what they hope to accomplish. If they're going after what some black people have attempted to do with the N-word and what some women have attempted to do with the B-word, I see a huge difference in how they're going about it. Those other groups have sought to redefine words that are commonly used as pejoratives against them into positives. Using "gay" to refer to negative things doesn't rob it of its "slur-ness," and if they still use it as a descriptor for themselves, then it seems like they're just helping to reinforce the attitudes that use of "gay" and other words for homosexuals as general curses is already indicative of. I don't think they're "robbing the word of it's power" at all.
(Beyond that, I think it's open to debate whether the strategy WRT the N-word and the b-word has been successful, anyway.)
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Those other groups have sought to redefine words that are commonly used as pejoratives against them into positives. Using "gay" to refer to negative things doesn't rob it of its "slur-ness," and if they still use it as a descriptor for themselves, then it seems like they're just helping to reinforce the attitudes that use of "gay" and other words for homosexuals as general curses is already indicative of. I don't think they're "robbing the word of it's power" at all.
There's a significant difference in the case of "gay" in that it's the only one of the bunch that already had multiple common meanings, of which "homosexual" is relatively recent. I don't think this is a matter of reclamation as much as one of diffusion, reinforcing the word's non-homosexual nature and redirecting the source of the negative connotations. That is, things aren't lame because they have homosexual qualities; they're lame for other reasons. It removes the word from a specifically anti-homosexual lexicon.
I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, mind you, just noting that it's a different set of underlying mechanics.
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Yeah, that's the caveat. Gay evolved into being a pejorative term, then it branched into multiple meanings, one being a descriptive term for being homosexual which is accepted as a common and non-defaming definition.
In branching out that term further, we also use it in its 'archaic' format. I'm having a super-gay day today, for instance!
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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There are lots of really stupid people in the world, aren't there?
KarlEd, don't beat yourself up too much about being "immature" for flipping the little geniuses off. While you are correct that it is an immature response, it is also a natural response in my experience. I know I've been guilty of doing the same thing - or of yelling back at them, and not in polite language - when some idiot drives by and shouts out some sort of insult about my weight. I'm not proud of it, to be sure, but sometimes the finger flies up or the words come out before the brain has a chance to disengage the response. It's called human nature.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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I have gotten a couple of comments about being Chinese since moving here. One was from a kid at the park, who said to his mom "this is not a park for Chinese people." His mom was uncomfortably silent, so I went ahead and addressed him "What do you do if you're half chinese?" "Nothing." He said. I mean, that's just life, my kids make those mistakes too.
Now the drunken partyer next store was a bit more tense. I didn't know if it was a visitor or a regular, or if they were drunk, or what, but the house was up for sale so I just hoped they would sell the house and move away. It was further complicated that the people who actually lived there were less active church members that the Branch President wished we would fellowship.
I wish my husband had gone outside and talked to them. I guess the fact that they stopped hanging out on their porch is an unfortunate indicator that they felt weird about it too. What's the right thing to do in such a situation? Other than say "I'll pray for you", I mean.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I personally dislike the use of "gay" as a negative. I don't think using it as a "general" negative helps "diffuse" the word at all.
I'm not sure I agree with "Gay evolved in to being a perjorative term, then . . ." While "gay" was used to mean wantonness and liscentious before it was used to refer specifically to homosexuals, it was also more of a vague euphemism than a slur. It was what you'd use in place of more specific and unambiguous words and was used both by outsiders making reference to a specific class and insiders of that class to refer to themselves.
Regardless, the only common usage today outside of the perjorative is by or in reference to the homosexual community. I fail to believe that any teenager or young adult pressed to explain why "gay" is a negative could honestly give any other explanation than its reference to homosexuality as a negative.
That said, this isn't even about the word "gay", it's about the word "faggot" which has only negative connotations specifically referring to male homosexuals (except in relatively rare cases among homosexuals or community insiders). The more I think about it, the more I believe it's very possible it was only coincidence that the guys in the car happened to choose a gay man as their target, but the only reason it would be a thing to say to anyone, particularly a stranger, is because of it's homosexual denotation and its negative connotation.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Icarus: Those other groups have sought to redefine words that are commonly used as pejoratives against them into positives. Using "gay" to refer to negative things doesn't rob it of its "slur-ness," and if they still use it as a descriptor for themselves, then it seems like they're just helping to reinforce the attitudes that use of "gay" and other words for homosexuals as general curses is already indicative of. I don't think they're "robbing the word of it's power" at all.
There's a significant difference in the case of "gay" in that it's the only one of the bunch that already had multiple common meanings, of which "homosexual" is relatively recent. I don't think this is a matter of reclamation as much as one of diffusion, reinforcing the word's non-homosexual nature and redirecting the source of the negative connotations. That is, things aren't lame because they have homosexual qualities; they're lame for other reasons. It removes the word from a specifically anti-homosexual lexicon.
I'm not saying I'm for it or against it, mind you, just noting that it's a different set of underlying mechanics.
I think, though, there's a HUGE difference between the use of "gay" as a pejorative (which has largely become a generalized pejorative usually having nothing to do with sexuality, especially when used by people under 30) and "f****t."
The latter strikes me as much more directly aimed at someone's sexuality, even more so than just "fag." See, I'm even comfortable with not asterisking out "fag," but "f****t" seems much more jarringly offensive.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I imagine its hard not to see this incident as possibly a dangerous scenario. But I agree there are plenty scenarios where a group of stupid teenage boys would call somebody a faggot even if they were not homosexual.
I was at the mall just the other day and I was sitting a a bench with my wife and best friend greedily opening new packs of the WoW collectible card game. I saw a group of teenage boys (maybe 15-16) rolling up and they all had acne, cracking voices, and their clothes looked pretty shabby TBH. As they passed the store they yelled in at the customers inside "Hey man! I want to play a game of Magic with you fags! HAHAHAHAHA!" then they left. I looked back in the store and some of the customers looked annoyed but honestly speaking I would have never guessed they were nerds had they been in any store.
I was tempted to make fun of them for their cracking voices, "I do a great impression of the generic adolecent movie ticket seller/fast food cashier guy in The Simpsons."
Don't let it get you down Karl, adolecent boys are scum and I REALLY wish we had required military service for em, if not lock em all up while they finish high school and their first year at college before letting them out again.
eriso: I too have heard MANY boys from my generation who use fag as a generic term for wrong or idiotic. But when they use faggot they usually only use it to define effeminate behavior or statements.
I remember once calling my brother a faggot because I was mad at him (I was 10) and I had no idea it meant homosexual. I didn't even really know homosexuals existed. My parents explained to me what it meant, and I remember feeling sad not because I was rude to my brother but because my epithet was inaccurate.
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quote:Originally posted by Olivet: Uprooted, we should have a Georgia get-together in the spring before Ben and Lindsay move.
Sounds great -- I could become real! Would love to meet you and anyone else who lives here. Email me anytime thru my profile.
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quote:I wonder how many parent discourage such random use of the word, and now many are secretly pleased, taking it as an indication that their sons are not "that way".
I can only answer for myself and my household, but even though we are pretty right-wing conservative Christians we most definitely discourage use of the word "faggot" the same as we do racial perjoratives. That type of language isn't tolerated.
I have no fear that usage or non-usage of slurs will make my son or daughter turn out homosexual. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:posted by KarlEd: Yes, I know. Very immature of me. I feel like crap about it and after the fact I can think of a dozen better reactions including completely ignoring them. I felt like crap for giving in to the impulse, and the first thing Chris said was "you shouldn't have done that" and I felt like crap again, so please, no lectures on the finger, ok?
For what it's worth, I don't think flashing the finger at them was necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes we need to stand up for ourselves, if only in a symbolic way.
You could always keep some feces in a bag with you at all times, so when the figurative crap starts flying you can one-up them.
Seriously though, dude, I'm sorry this happened to you.
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quote:Originally posted by romanylass: That sucks Karl. I hate the use of the word gay as a perjorative.
*amused* But you'll use the word 'sucks' as a perjorative.
More on topic, sorry you had to go through that Karl. Ever since moving to this area, the cool thing here for teenage boys to do seems to be screaming out the window at you as they pass. I don't have anything to elaborate on except throw my towel in with the consensus and say there's probably no way that they knew your sexual orientation when screaming at you. I know you're not looking for it, but you have my sympathy anyway.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Teenagers are just lame in general and like to yell things at people to try to make themselves feel superior, I think. I also don't think flicking them off was a really bad thing. I was walking through the movie theatre parking lot on my way to meet a friend, and a group of twelve-year-old girls that I happened to pass by started yelling really weird things, most of which I didn't catch. I WISH I'd flipped them off while I continued walking.
My brother uses "gay" as a general pejorative, too. It makes me want to stick electrodes on him and shock the habit out of him.
posted
I brought "gay" as a pejorative home from school when I was 7, not having any idea what it meant, and my older sister (16 at the time) sat me down and explained why I shouldn't say that, so I haven't since. I NEVER said "faggot", same as the n-word or "midget". I'm with Belle, even if I don't heartily approve of someone's lifestyle, it is not okay to call names or make fun of them or disrespect them because of it. I mean, my sister lives with her boyfriend (and my other sister did for about 7 years before getting married) and my dad lives with his fiancé. My brother is into white supremacist junk. I still love all of them, even though I don't approve of their actions, and I definitely am not going to expose my children to any kind of hate towards others if I can help it (at least in our home, I know they'll eventually encounter it, but I hope they'll have learned enough to know not to participate in it by then.)
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