posted
Okay... Tova is 7 years old. And she needs to take some sort of fight training.
Her responses are heavily weighted towards the fight side of "fight or flee". I remember once when she was 10 months and cruising around holding on to things, I was down on my hands and knees playing monster, and I growled and lunged at her. And instead of backing away or even hesitating, she reflexively lunged at me.
When she was 2, she was in a nursery school, and one day, these two brothers started coming, who were pretty mean. One was 2.5 and the other was 4. At one point, the 4 year old boy picked up a stick and starting waving it at Tova, trying to hit her. Tova took the stick away from the boy and whacked him with it.
She's never gotten physical with people except for extreme situations like that one, or after a lot of provocations. But lately, she's been dealing with the various little frustrations that come from being 7 years old and starting to really think about things and judge them as fair or unfair. And she's started reacting physically to verbal "offenses" a little bit.
What I want is some sort of martial art that's good for kids, and that will instill a little control in her. From the little I've read, my gut feeling is that karate would be good for this, but I don't know enough about martial arts to know if that's right or not.
She's been taking dance since she was 2.5 (ballet and then tap), and she likes the movement, but lacks discipline.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
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posted
No offense, but it sounds to me like the kids around her are the ones who should be looking into martial arts training to defend themselves!
Kidding aside, if your primary focus is on the self-discipline aspect of the martial arts, than the art itself probably isn't as important as the people who are teaching it. I think you should just check out the schools/dojos in your area, talk to the instructors, and get a feel for what each is all about with regards to children's training in particular. Anything else I tell you will be biased in favour of karate since that's what I have experience with.
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It's more of a defensive martial art. There are no kicks or punches. It's all throws and take downs. It focuses on using your attackers force against them, as opposed to fighting force with force. The stuff you learn is very practical and applicable. And the mental part of the training is as important as the physical part. In terms of being in control of yourself, etc...
The only other martial art I had experience with was Tai Kwan Do, and I wouldn't recommend that. All we did was learn punches and kicks and memorize patterns and after 6 years I came out of it not really knowing how to fight or defend myself any better than when i went in.
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posted
Forgive me, but a seven year old girl... needs fight training?
Then again, my five year old son was forced to take down an older girl that hit him in his Tae Kwan Do class, so who knows.
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posted
I second the Aikido suggestion. There's quite a bit of focus on mental discipline (though of course that varies from dojo to dojo). Additionally, aggressive behavior is generally discouraged. In Aikido, the idea is to avoid a physical confrontation altogether if possible. My instructors are pretty good about explaining how to do techniques correctly so that no on gets hurt.
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posted
I took jujitsu as a child, and then Capoeira after college. I'm not big into fighting, but I can't speak enough about how much Capoeira taught me about my body and made me aware of the movements of other people. Different strokes for different folks.
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posted
I second the idea that the art isn't nearly as important as the dojo/teacher. Check out the places. Talk to the teacher. Watch a class. Get a feel for the spirit of the place, and then make your decision. For what you want, the style of martial art is almost irrelevant.
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posted
Tai Chi focuses on slower, calm movements so that might be cool. I always wanted to take Wing Chun, a soft style that focuses on relaxation and balance. Don't know how likely you'd be to find anyone teaching it, though.
My advice is find out how often the dojo expects students to test for belts or pay to go to tournaments. All I really love to do is practice forms, so I always felt a little gyped by the time I had to spend sparring and testing.
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posted
For a child, I would definitely second the idea that the instructor is far, far more important than the school.
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I'm kind of surprised you're asking. I can't imagine you even considering anything other than Krav Maga. Posts: 2804 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Originally posted by fugu13: 1) Approaches the art as a mental discipline, not a sport.
2) Requires strong basics and lots of stretching exercises (just watch a few beginner classes and you'll probably be able to tell).
3) Doesn't put the younger people in a separate class.
I agree with the second two, but I don't really agree with the first. In my experience, competition can be a great way to add fun and focus to any physical activity. Of course, you need to make sure, especially at that level, that competition takes a back seat to learning, safety, and fun. However, I would personally see at least a little sport and competition as a very positive thing.
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posted
I disagree about #3. Whenever we had youngsters in our normal classes (that is, classes that weren't specifically designed for children), it didn't turn out well. They just didn't have the patience to sit through the sort of teaching we did in our Aikido dojo. They ended up frustrated and not learning much. It was frustrating for their partners as well, trying to get them to pay attention and focus on what was happening.
Now, I can see youngsters and adults training together fine in more structured classes, like what I've seen in some karate dojos. But I don't think having separate classes for young children and adults is necessarily a bad thing.
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posted
Ah, yeah, I'm used to a karate dojo (when I was young, and took classes along with everyone ). Shotokan, to be specific. This probably does vary a lot with teaching styles.
I agree a little competition can be okay, but I've run into too many people who've had a less than happy martial arts experience due to an over-focus on competition. Additionally, if this is intended as something to help Tova moderate and consider her reactions, I think the mental aspect is extremely important.
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I agree a little competition can be okay, but I've run into too many people who've had a less than happy martial arts experience due to an over-focus on competition. Additionally, if this is intended as something to help Tova moderate and consider her reactions, I think the mental aspect is extremely important.
I understand where you're coming from, and I agree that it is something to be careful of. I just don't agree with the more general statement you made that having a sport focus is in and of itself a negative.
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posted
I recommend Kung Fu. You mentioned she is a dancer. Kung Fu is a very graceful art that has a lot of focus on kicks versus punches. I was able to train in Kung Fu for a time but it became too expensive to continue. I hope to return to it soon. In no time I had quick reflexes. I hadn't thought that that was something I would ever learn; I am very clumsy overall.
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posted
I add my vote for Aikido. I loved it when I took it, and wished I had been taught from a young age.
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There are many different martial art styles that are immensely useful and fun. But try to decide if this is purely for self defense or if perhaps your daughter may want to compete in tournaments someday.
It might be hard finding an instructor but Capoeira has been exploding around the globe. Currently in the Ultimate Fighting Championships the fighters all use concepts gleaned from Capoeira or Brazilian Ju Jitsu, it just does not make sense to not be aware of its power.
But I too strongly suggest you make sure you find the right instructor, I took self defense in high school and our teacher was this awesome man from New Zealand who had his fair share of fights on a drunken weekend as a college student/young adult. When he taught us a technique you could tell he had certainly used it before, I still remember just about everything he taught us.
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posted
A lot of it will depend on the instructer, not the particular martial art.
Sha lin Do is what I took. I know my teacher concentrated much more on the discipline side of things than the actual fighting. But whenever I'd go to get-togethers (I forget the actual name), the other people were very... fight-worthy. They were very trained in the fighting, sparring, whatever. I didn't see a lack of discipline, but I did see that the emphasis was much more on the fighting than on defense, and poses, and meditating (The guy didn't get weird, he would just call it deep concentration, on whatever you want. Preferably, you meditated on what you just learned.)
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posted
I took Wing Chun from Augustine Fong for a while, before it became too expensive. There was a lot of focus on slow movements and deep concentration. I don't recall there being any sparring. All of the partner work was sticky hands, which was very slow and focused on good technique rather than power. Here's a video of two people doing sticky hands (the one on the right is SiFu Fong).
Of course, I agree with the people who say to look for good instructors more than a specific style.
posted
My recommendation is find a gym and enroll her in gymnastics.
It calls for fearlessness, which she has, physicality, which she has, grace and balance - which her dance training will help with, and discipline - which you want to instill.
There is a competitive aspect, but the competition is more with yourself than against other people.
Of course, I think gymnastics is the greatest sport and activity in the world for girls, so I'm always going to recommend it. Whatever you decide to do, I echo the suggestion that it's important to find an instructor whose philosophy and teaching style you agreew tih over finding a particular branch of the martial arts.
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It is non-competitive with a focus on discipline. I agree, though, that the instructor is much more important at this age than the art.
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All the kids around here take Tae Kwon Do (we live in an area with a lot of Korean-Americans, most of the teachers are Korean.) It seems really great for getting out aggression AND self discipline, if those are your primary goals.
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quote:It calls for fearlessness, which she has, physicality, which she has, grace and balance - which her dance training will help with, and discipline - which you want to instill.
I agree with Belle about gymnastics over martial arts. I do think that gymnastics is little too hard on the body for my tastes, but I do believe that learning balance, grace, and flexibility through gymnastics or ballet would be better than martial arts. I push Capoeira because it's half dance, and I've been a decent athlete for most of my life and I've never been more agile, alive or aware than when I was doing Capoeira. As for mental discipline, I dig the concentration required for solitary pursuits, musical instruments and that's another point in the favor of gymnastics.
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quote:My recommendation is find a gym and enroll her in gymnastics.
This is excellent advice. In fact, at my dojo we would often recommend this to parents who wanted their youngun to do martial arts.
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posted
Gymnastics are so much fun. <Sigh> Too bad I can't do them anymore. Back bend... Pff! I can hardly do a bridge, much less a back bend.
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quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: No offense, but it sounds to me like the kids around her are the ones who should be looking into martial arts training to defend themselves!
She's actually small for her age, and she really doesn't do anything without being provoked.
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Kidding aside, if your primary focus is on the self-discipline aspect of the martial arts, than the art itself probably isn't as important as the people who are teaching it. I think you should just check out the schools/dojos in your area, talk to the instructors, and get a feel for what each is all about with regards to children's training in particular. Anything else I tell you will be biased in favour of karate since that's what I have experience with.
That's okay. Bias doesn't bother me. If you have good things to say about karate, please do. After reading the book Emergence, karate was the first thing that occurred to me, actually.
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quote:Originally posted by Nighthawk: Forgive me, but a seven year old girl... needs fight training?
I think she needs to see that fighting is a serious thing that should only ever be done when absolutely necessary. And just telling her not to fight isn't going to work.
It's like sweets. Tell a kid they can't have sweets, and see how well that works. But make sweets a special treat in special circumstances, and they become associated with those special conditions.
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quote:Originally posted by Irami Osei-Frimpong: I took jujitsu as a child, and then Capoeira after college. I'm not big into fighting, but I can't speak enough about how much Capoeira taught me about my body and made me aware of the movements of other people. Different strokes for different folks.
I don't think I know anything about Capoeira, Irami. It's Brazilian, no? Do you know of any good online resources about it?
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quote:Originally posted by Speed: I'm kind of surprised you're asking. I can't imagine you even considering anything other than Krav Maga.
As far as I'm aware, Krav Maga is about taking out an assailant fast and hard. I'm not interested in turning a seven year old girl into Linda Hamilton; I want her to avoid fighting unless absolutely pushed into it.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I want her to avoid fighting unless absolutely pushed into it.
*anyone* who doesn't teach that fighting is a last resort is not someone you want for an instructor. for anyone. age 7 to 70.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Speed: I'm kind of surprised you're asking. I can't imagine you even considering anything other than Krav Maga.
As far as I'm aware, Krav Maga is about taking out an assailant fast and hard. I'm not interested in turning a seven year old girl into Linda Hamilton; I want her to avoid fighting unless absolutely pushed into it.
Well remember its about taking out an ASSAILANT. And by taking out merely disarming or making continued attacks impossible.
If you want your child to be able to avoid fighting as much as possible, add gymnastics and olympic sprinting to her repertoire. edit: Possibly sign her up for rhetoric 101 or the debate team as well. Anything to skill up her speechcraft.
btw, Linda Hamilton was HOT in T2! Would you seriously be unhappy if your daughter could strong arm her way out of a heavily secured mental asylum? Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Here are some studios in Chicago. You can start calling here and see if they have kid's classes. The place I trained in California had kid's classes on Saturday mornings. http://home.znet.com/capoeira_list/il_chicago.htm
Here is a video. For different reasons, in every place I've been, the gender balance has been 50/50, between the singing, dancing, kicking, punching, it's got qualities that appeal to both socialized genders, and flexibility, rhythm, and balance are more important than strength. The only two times I've been caught open and laid out flat on my rump were by women. In addition, everyone sings and in most places, everyone is taught eventually to play the instruments.
It really is something. I know it looks overly ornamental, but all of flourishes and feints get you more sensitive to movements around you, developing almost otherworldly awareness to movement and coordination. Forget about dodging a punch or a kick, the folks joke that Capoeira gives you a sort of spidey sense, allowing you do dodge cars and bullets. I've seen women and men go from normal to comic book superhero in a matter of months.
quote:Originally posted by Lisa: That's okay. Bias doesn't bother me. If you have good things to say about karate, please do. After reading the book Emergence, karate was the first thing that occurred to me, actually.
Well, like I and others have said, it's more about the dojo and the instructor(s) than the actual style itself. The dojo I went to had separate classes for kids (which is really a must if you're going to do actual sparring and grappling and such). It was stressed that fighting is only done as a last resort and that the best self defense was knowing how to avoid dangerous situations and diffuse conflicts before they become violent. My Sensei would often say that the more you study karate the less likely you are to ever have to use it. Discipline and self control were strongly emphasized. During gradings (testing for promotions to the next belt level), one of the few ways a person could instantly fail was to draw blood during a sparring match, or show reckless lack of control or proper respect in some other way. At the higher belt levels promotion would also require academic tasks including reports on books based on the history and philosophy of the art, or keeping records of goals in our lives and how we've gone about accomplishing them.
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posted
Having been to a multi-discipline martial arts exhibition in Minneapolis, the sport I found most interesting was Kempo/Kenpo. This is a blend of Kung Fu, Karate, a bit of Judo, and Jujitsu. This should not be confused with KenDo, which is Japanese Sword fighting using bamboo swords.
I always thought having a working knowledge of all the locks, holds, and restraints would be excellent for defending myself without having to become too aggressive against my opponent. While Kenpo/Kempo does give you offensive capability, I can't think of any other Martial sport that so strongly emphasizes defensive and restraining capability.
Part of your choice will depend on what is available in your area. You can find Korean Taekwondo schools every where and they have the most standardized ranking and training. A Green Belt in Taekwondo in your area is exactly like a Green Belt in another area. That's a good thing.
The second most common is Japanese Karate or Shotokan, the most popular Japanese style. I personally trained for a while in Goju Ryu, an Okinawa style martial art. This is the same style that the 'Karate Kid' learned in the movies. Also, in college I took some classes in the Shotokan style.
Sparing and tournaments can be fun as long as the instructor doesn't have a 'win or die trying' attitude. It is also important to have classes are pre-teen only. Mixing just-teens and teens with little kids is an invitation to problems. Though in some of our classes, kids wanting to pick up extra classes did come to the adult classes. This generally wasn't a problem as these particular kids were well behaved, as were the adults.
I do definitely agree with the thought that the instructor and the general attitude of the martial school is more important than the style.
That said, if I could do it over again, I would definitely go for Kenpo/Kempo. It has the broadest cross section of offensive and defensive tactics of any martial art I've seen, and tends to emphasize technique and discipline more than sparing and winning tournaments.
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