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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Dagonne need your help on a political matter.

   
Author Topic: Dagonne need your help on a political matter.
Blayne Bradley
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quote:

Adopted by the Security Council at its 2933rd meeting on 6 August 1990

The Security Council,

Reaffirming its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August 1990,

Deeply concerned that that resolution has not been implemented and that the invasion by Iraq of Kuwait continues with further loss of human life and material destruction,

Determined to bring the invasion and occupation of Kuwait by Iraq to an end and to restore the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Kuwait,

Noting that the legitimate Government of Kuwait has expressed its readiness to comply with resolution 660 (1990),

Mindful of its responsibilities under the Charter of the United Nations for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Affirming the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence, in response to the armed attack by Iraq against Kuwait, in accordance with Article 51 of the Charter,

Acting under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,

1. Determines that Iraq so far has failed to comply with paragraph 2 of resolution 660 (1990) and has usurped the authority of the legitimate Government of Kuwait;

2. Decides, as a consequence, to take the following measures to secure compliance of Iraq with paragraph 2 of resolution 660 (1990) and to restore the authority of the legitimate Government of Kuwait;

3. Decides that all States shall prevent:

(a) The import into their territories of all commodities and products originating in Iraq or Kuwait exported therefrom after the date of the present resolution;

(b) Any activities by their nationals or in their territories which would promote or are calculated to promote the export or trans-shipment of any commodities or products from Iraq or Kuwait; and any dealings by their nationals or their flag vessels or in their territories in any commodities or products originating in Iraq or Kuwait and exported therefrom after the date of the present resolution, including in particular any transfer of funds to Iraq or Kuwait for the purposes of such activities or dealings;

(c) The sale or supply by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels of any commodities or products, including weapons or any other military equipment, whether or not originating in their territories but not including supplies intended strictly for medical purposes, and, in humanitarian circumstances, foodstuffs, to any person or body in Iraq or Kuwait or to any person or body for the purposes of any business carried on in or operated from Iraq or Kuwait, and any activities by their nationals or in their territories which promote or are calculated to promote such sale or supply of such commodities or products;

4. Decides that all States shall not make available to the Government of Iraq or to any commercial, industrial or public utility undertaking in Iraq or Kuwait, any funds or any other financial or economic resources and shall prevent their nationals and any persons within their territories from removing from their territories or otherwise making available to that Government or to any such undertaking any such funds or resources and from remitting any other funds to persons or bodies within Iraq or Kuwait, except payments exclusively for strictly medical or humanitarian purposes and, in humanitarian circumstances, foodstuffs;

5. Calls upon all States, including States non-members of the United Nations, to act strictly in accordance with the provisions of the present resolution notwithstanding any contract entered into or licence granted before the date of the present resolution;

6. Decides to establish, in accordance with rule 28 of the provisional rules of procedure of the Security Council, a Committee of the Security Council consisting of all the members of the Council, to undertake the following tasks and to report on its work to the Council with its observations and recommendations:

(a) To examine the reports on the progress of the implementation of the present resolution which will be submitted by the Secretary-General;

(b) To seek from all States further information regarding the action taken by them concerning the effective implementation of the provisions laid down in the present resolution;

7. Calls upon all States to co-operate fully with the Committee in the fulfilment of its task, including supplying such information as may be sought by the Committee in pursuance of the present resolution;

8. Requests the Secretary-General to provide all necessary assistance to the Committee and to make the necessary arrangements in the Secretariat for the purpose;

9. Decides that, notwithstanding paragraphs 4 through 8 above, nothing in the present resolution shall prohibit assistance to the legitimate Government of Kuwait, and calls upon all States:

(a) To take appropriate measures to protect assets of the legitimate Government of Kuwait and its agencies;

(b) Not to recognize any regime set up by the occupying Power;

10. Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Council on the progress of the implementation of the present resolution, the first report to be submitted within thirty days;

11. Decides to keep this item on its agenda and to continue its efforts to put an early end to the invasion by Iraq.

Would this resolution either during the war or post war prevent the setting up of any civilian fiber optic networks?
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erosomniac
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I don't claim to speak for him, but I think you'll get a much better response out of Dag (and everyone else) if you post your own thoughts on the matter prior to asking anyone else to invest time & effort into it. [Smile]
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Blayne Bradley
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Thats the thing, I can't make all that much heads or tails from this resolution aside from this is a resolution, and Saddam did some bad things. Like it seems to be to me eyes rather vague in what cannot be traded between Iraq and a third party, or a company within Iraq and a third party.
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Narnia
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I like the way you spelled Dag's name to sound like a swear word euphemism. "Dagonnit!" [Smile]
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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Thats the thing, I can't make all that much heads or tails from this resolution aside from this is a resolution, and Saddam did some bad things. Like it seems to be to me eyes rather vague in what cannot be traded between Iraq and a third party, or a company within Iraq and a third party.

Even this is helpful, dude. It makes it clearer what specifically you'd like a response to. Keep expanding. Try to do it in one post - type and edit and type and edit so that after 10 minutes you have something someone can read, think about and respond to in addition to the quoted portion of your original post.
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Blayne Bradley
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I'll see what I can do to provide background information, *drinks 2l of Coke*

there now I have caffeine.

Basically I am in a running argument over multiple sub-forums on "Perspectives" with some idiots, however every once in a while there are things in which I am unsure. I know that a Chinese Telecommunications did in fact setup a fiber optic network in Iraq according to Bill Gertz but was it or was it not in contradiction of the sanctions placed upon Iraq? The network was undoubtedly setup after the Gulf War

quote:

(c) The sale or supply by their nationals or from their territories or using their flag vessels of any commodities or products, including weapons or any other military equipment, whether or not originating in their territories but not including supplies intended strictly for medical purposes, and, in humanitarian circumstances, foodstuffs, to any person or body in Iraq or Kuwait or to any person or body for the purposes of any business carried on in or operated from Iraq or Kuwait, and any activities by their nationals or in their territories which promote or are calculated to promote such sale or supply of such commodities or products;

4. Decides that all States shall not make available to the Government of Iraq or to any commercial, industrial or public utility undertaking in Iraq or Kuwait, any funds or any other financial or economic resources and shall prevent their nationals and any persons within their territories from removing from their territories or otherwise making available to that Government or to any such undertaking any such funds or resources and from remitting any other funds to persons or bodies within Iraq or Kuwait, except payments exclusively for strictly medical or humanitarian purposes and, in humanitarian circumstances, foodstuffs;

These are the only passages that might say nay but the first doesn't explicitly ban telecommunications development the latter sounds like it may fit the bill but its so vague and convoluted and the fact that it doesn't to me ban any dealings between independent non military and non government companies, I am also unsure if the sanctions have changed in any way since 1991.
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ricree101
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From a purely layperson's reading, I'd say that the fourth point would likely prevent any outside companies or governments from providing technical help or investment in the infrastructure necessary to build a network. Section 3 would also seem to forbid exporting the necessary equipment to Iraq.

Besides the fact that I don't know enough to do more than a literal reading here, there are a few things to consider. For one thing, this was passed during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, and it seems very likely that the sanctions were modified afterwards. When was this network built?

Also keep in mind that China is a permanent member of the UN security council. Even if it was technically a violation, there not have been anyone who cared enough to challenge them over it. Perhaps providing links to some more background information would help here.

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Blayne Bradley
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well Bill Gertz mentioned in in a book and clearly framed in in the context as being built just prior to the 2003 invasion.

Here's where the arguement started:

quote:

Drudge X wrote:

quote:

General Bradley wrote: Woah your arguements become more childish and incoherent each and every time

Drudge.HAHAHAHA!!!!! You sounded like some baseball team who lost the game but refuses defeat and insist on going back to analyze how the runs were scored and were the runs scored fairly. [grin][grin][grin]
quote:

First off did you know that China is leading the 6 Party Talks and that the US has been thankful for China's cooperation in regards to North Korea?

What do you expect US to say? US is saying to China, "we believed in one-China policy", think they meant well? If China is telling the world there are no such thing as human rights violations in China, we are suppose to believe it?

quote:

Next armored piercing ammunition Chinese or otherwise can come from anywhere, not just China. The article clearly says that there is no evidence that Beijing is responsible for the trading of weapons and ammunition to insurgents.

Twist all you want. The armor piercing shells were Chinese made. China might not be directly trading ammo to the insurgent. But they sure know damn well where these ammo will end up after selling it to Iran.

quote:
Next, Prove that China has had done anything to do with Saddam Hussein during sanction that were "illegal".
Oh....how about laying fiber optic lines for starters? Do a search.

quote:

Next "I" don't have to prove anything, your trying to pass off your incompetent ability to argue because your unable to do any research or come up with any evidence to backup your claims. You seem to forget a notion known as plausible deniability, it is possible they came from the previous war, it is possible they came from Russia, it is possible they came from Iran, and so far without any evidence that China is responsible for their falling into the hands of insurgents which your article clearly lacks you cannot prove that China is responsible, I do not have to prove otherwise, your lack of proof is proof enough.

Still waiting for you to show me a credible link saying that the Chinese made weapons are remnants from the Iran/Iraq War, Vietnam War, or from the Russians. You wanted me to show a link that the weapons were Chinese made and I've done my part, where's yours? Again, you're talking the talk.


And there you have it, I have responded at length to him but now I am just waiting until I have a better understanding of what the resolution or any modifications have been made before posting further on that particular point.
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Dagonee
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I think it pretty clearly applies to fiber optic networks. Those are not medical supplies or foodstuffs, so 3(c) seems to clearly prevent importing any equipment necessary.

If all the equipment and resources were in Iraq all ready, I'm not sure it would apply to services-only work (come install this stuff I happen to already have), but 4 seems to apply to resources in general. In plain English, I think "resources" would apply to technical expertise, but I don't know if the UN has a specific meaning for the word.

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fugu13
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Since they specify "financial or economic resources", they almost certainly mean to include goods, services, and capital in the transaction ban. Those are the three classic economic resources, after all.
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Kwea
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Yep.
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Dagonee
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quote:
Since they specify "financial or economic resources", they almost certainly mean to include goods, services, and capital in the transaction ban. Those are the three classic economic resources, after all.
Most likely, but I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a specific definition, so I didn't want to be too general.

Plus, given that Iraq did not produce all the goods in the fiber optic network, 3(c) applies for sure, so I don't need to worry too much about precisely interpreting 4. [Smile]

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fugu13
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Doing a bit of googling, that appears to be standard language. I bet it comes from one of the treaties.

The UN charter uses the phrase in another context, and is copiously quoted as doing so, but does not appear to define it.

A book on "The International Law on Foreign Investment" that google books lets me peak into uses the phrase twice, but does not appear to define it.

Interestingly elusive terminology.

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