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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Texas governor headed for jail?

   
Author Topic: Texas governor headed for jail?
Derrell
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Rick Perry has been indicted by a grand jury on 2 counts of coercion. link
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BlackBlade
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I'd be very surprised if he ends up in jail.
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Lyrhawn
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Given what I'm reading on the situation, I don't blame him for wanting to do it.

But I'm not sure the ends justify the means here.

Still, I too doubt he ends up serving time for it.

That IS very Texas, though. LBJ would have been proud.

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Thesifer
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"If found guilty on the charges, Perry could be sentenced to a maximum 109 years in prison."

Uhmmmmmmmm... What? Is this a typo?

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dkw
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Probably not. But saying that something is the maximum sentence possible if he's found guilty of the charges is a long way from saying that it's a likely sentence or that he's likely to be found guilty.

It's only slightly more informative than saying "If he drives his car tomorrow, Perry could be in an auto accident."

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Derrell
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"The charge of abuse of official capacity carries a prison sentence of five to 99 years, and the charge of coercion of a public servant a two- to 10-year prison sentence." I got this from the New York Times. If he did it, what are the odds of him doing time?
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by dkw:
Probably not. But saying that something is the maximum sentence possible if he's found guilty of the charges is a long way from saying that it's a likely sentence or that he's likely to be found guilty.

maximum sentences are for poor black men, essentially
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Elison R. Salazar
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At the very least it hurts his presidential ambitions.
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BlackBlade
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His impossible hopes and dreams I suppose.
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Kwea
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I'd say it is a toss up.....but he probably won't spend time in jail. He does have the right to veto, and this is not as clear cut as it was made out to be.
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Thesifer
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Apparently the last time a Governor was brought up on charges in Texas, it was for almost the same reason.

Edit:

After reading the NYTimes there was more to the other Governors Charges. The piece I read before conveniently left the other charges out.

From the NYTimes
"The last Texas governor to face criminal charges was James E. “Pa” Ferguson, who was indicted in 1917 by a Travis County grand jury on embezzlement and eight other charges. His case also involved a veto that stirred anger: Mr. Ferguson vetoed the entire appropriation to the University of Texas because it had refused to fire certain faculty members. The state Senate voted to impeach him, but he resigned first."

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Elison R. Salazar:
At the very least it hurts his presidential ambitions.

Nothing hurts Rick Perry's presidential ambitions more than Rick Perry.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by dkw:
Probably not. But saying that something is the maximum sentence possible if he's found guilty of the charges is a long way from saying that it's a likely sentence or that he's likely to be found guilty.

maximum sentences are for poor black men, essentially
I'm surprised they don't execute for this. It is *Texas*.
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by dkw:
Probably not. But saying that something is the maximum sentence possible if he's found guilty of the charges is a long way from saying that it's a likely sentence or that he's likely to be found guilty.

maximum sentences are for poor black men, essentially
I'm surprised they don't execute for this. It is *Texas*.
Or for people that actually commit a crime. There's a reason Perry is getting bi-partisan support on this.
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GaalDornick
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I'm not a fan of Perry's but this indictment seems pretty bogus. It looks more to me like politics as usual than a criminal act.

If that's illegal, then a whole lot of our politicians should be in jail (which maybe they should be anyways).

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Kwea
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LOL...bipartisan support....lol....
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Rakeesh
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With the kind of politician Perry is and has been, even if this is a witch hunt, and I don't know one way or another, well Rick ain't exactly spent his political life playing the statesman. Hard to don a shield of virtue when you're so dirty yourself.
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GaalDornick
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Who is donning a shield of virtue on him?

If he's committed crimes in the past, then indict him for those. But don't indict him for something like this just because he's a poor statesman.

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Rakeesh
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Sorry. Didn't mean anyone here. I simply meant that while this may be dirty politics or legitimate investigation, or perhaps shades of both, Perry is sufficiently ethically bankrupt for me to feel sympathy for him personally. If it's dirty politics? Then I hope it gets shut down quickly, at the least. But Perry is more tha willing to play dishonest and dirty politics on...well, let's see. Immigration, energy, states' rights, lgbt issues, aspects of foreign policy in particular Israel, and that's just what I know of his national profile. But he's more-or rather less-than just a 'poor statesman'.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:

If he's committed crimes in the past, then indict him for those. But don't indict him for something like this just because he's a poor statesman.

You can engage in quite a bit of political corruption and influence peddling without generating an indictable offense. This is the key: the scope of the authority of the prosecutor in this case is relatively small. The implication is that Perry has been leveraging his executive power to bully officials for a long time, but this is the clearest cut case of it happening on the public record.

Still, it's rather naive to suggest that simply because you don't have the evidence to indict someone, means that you don't have quite a bit of evidence that they are corrupt, or abusive of their position. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence to show that Perry has abused his position. But there's always a fine line between corruption and politics. Why do you think that so many politicians eventually fall to simple fraud charges, or to tax evasion? It's just the easiest offense to prove. It's not the reason they're investigated in the first place.

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GaalDornick
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I don't understand what you both are suggesting with these points.

If you were on the jury, would you convict him even if he isn't guilty on this because he's been guilty of corruption or abused his power in other instances?

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Orincoro
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Were I on a jury, I would apply the law to the case that was presented to me, and decide based upon the facts presented. Since I am not on such a jury, I cannot comment on what my inclination would be.

And no, my point is not that a conviction can be had based on a general history of abuse of power. Rather in response to your assertion that he should be indicted for the real crimes that he has committed in the past (if such crimes have been committed). My only point was that not all crimes or suspected crimes are indictable. This alleged crime clearly was indictable, whether or not the prosecutor is likely to gain a conviction. And often times, a prosecutor indicts when and if he or she can- not necessarily, and this is of course unfortunate, on the best possible charges.

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Elison R. Salazar
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Gaal, should they not have tried Al Capone then? He committed a number of crimes but lacked enough evidence to put him away; so they got him on tax evasion.
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GaalDornick
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" Rather in response to your assertion that he should be indicted for the real crimes that he has committed in the past (if such crimes have been committed)."

I didn't make this assertion at all. It seemed like Rakeesh was suggesting that even if Perry didn't commit an indictable offense in this case, he's done plenty of other shady things in the past, so that makes this okay even if it is a witch hunt. I asserted that if he's done other things that are indictable offenses, then he should be tried for those.

"Gaal, should they not have tried Al Capone then?"

What? What part of what I said made you think I would think this? Do you think I was saying that Rick Perry shouldn't be tried because he may have committed other crimes?

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