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I've been trying to edit as much as his stuff as we go, so we can keep a clearer idea of where the narrative is going as it progresses. And we've kept in contact pretty regurarly for brainstorming sessions.
Though, my ability to contribute has waned in the past few weeks due to a variety of factors.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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Still, it's about six thousand percent better with SteveRogers editing than it would have been without.
Just about every major and many minor rewrite I've done has come either as a result of a brainstorming session I had with him, or from comments and criticisms he's made after reading it. It's been a remarkably productive collaborative process.
I don't know how people write good novels without help.
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I imagine most published novelists would tell you they didn't write a good novel without help.
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For anyone interested or following along...
This weekend I'm going to try to race to the finish and complete the novel! I have five more chapters planned (given my track record, that probably means seven or eight will actually be written), which means, on average, probably about another 19,000 words, though almost 10,000 of those are already written in really rough shape, I just need to piece some things together.
I took a break from writing after my last update here, so I haven't written in about two weeks, but my semester starts on Monday, and I need to focus on school work right out of the gate, which means this takes a back burner position for a few months, except when I have free time (if that actually happens).
But I wanted to finish this draft before the end of summer, and since summer ends, for me, on Monday, I have two days to finish. Wish me luck!
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Good luck, Lyrhawn. I'm battling through my own novel at the moment.
quote:Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like to work with a professional editor? What exactly do they do and what is the process like?
I don't, but I have a friend who's a professional copyeditor who occaisionally takes a look at my work and he adds home made cookies to my already rather large tab (we live in different countries so the debt is mounting). He doesn't normally edit fiction. What I get from him is clarity of sentence structure and meaning. He picks up on ideas/phrases I think are clear but really aren't. He also picks up on things like repeated and overused words and structures, mis-use of grammar, missing words etc.
He generally uses the editing tool in Word to tag and comment on my faults.
What he does not do necessarily is provide structural suggestions, but that may be just him.
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I'm staring at a file of chapter outlines, a file with our brainstorming notes, a file with chapter snippets of half-written chapters and conversations, and a few hastily hand-written pages of ideas that are barely legible because I wrote them all at night in the dark while half asleep.
quote:Originally posted by SteveRogers: I've been trying to edit as much as his stuff as we go, so we can keep a clearer idea of where the narrative is going as it progresses. And we've kept in contact pretty regurarly for brainstorming sessions.
Though, my ability to contribute has waned in the past few weeks due to a variety of factors.
I'm quite relieved to hear that Lyr is getting help, as I volunteered to edit it, and then life SO got in the way and had to retract my offer. Thanks for filling shoes I prematurely offered to fill Steve.
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SteveRogers was always going to help me write it, but we decided to move his writing portion to the hypothetical second novel, so his role sort of shifted to collaborative brainstorming partner and structural editor.
The hardcore, nuts and bolts editing is still ahead of us.
I think at some point we're going to have to turn it over to a professional if we get serious enough about it.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like to work with a professional editor? What exactly do they do and what is the process like?
(No offense to SR, who is an excellent editing partner)
I don't, but my husband is an author and I've seen the process from my perspective. Mind you, this is with in house editors - ie editors with the publisher once the publishing contract has been signed. I would be very, very, wary of freelance editors.
Professional editors pick up sloppy writing - show not tell seems to be a big part of it (ie avoid the big expositional scenes) - but anything where the writing gets in the way of the story. That can be as trivial as repeated words (most writers have a word or phrase they overuse without realizing). Good editors will also check for consistency (both within the story and in it's context - ie do the character names work for the time period?).
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I've found having a least a couple exposition scenes is unavoidable in my novel. I keep them rather short and very well spaced out so the plot unfolds over the course of the entire story, "show don't tell" sometimes ends up being an unwieldly and complicated piece of advice. Sometimes it's faster, easier, and better to just say something, rather than spending twice or three times as long to try and hint at it or demonstrate it.
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For the most part, I think we've been able to tighten up the writing to avoid exposition as much as possible.
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Close to the finish line now. I've added a lot in the last month since I posted.
I'm down to the final one or two chapters. Now I'm just trying to keep it under 100,000 words.
I think this will probably be finished in the next week, since it really is (finally) down to the last chapter, and a mostly written epilogue.
I'm also going to renew my request/offer to let anyone who is willing to read it. It'll probably be available in about two weeks. I'm figuring a week to finish, and a week to do some editing that I already have planned.
Your services will be appreciated. In the fantasy world where I actually get published (hah), you might even find your name in thank you page.
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I'd be happy to read it. I'm mechanicalman at gmail. What level of critique are you looking for, if any?
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Congrats on nearing the end of an actual book-length novel!
I don't have a huge amount of time in the next couple of months and I'm not an editor by any means, but I'd be happy to read it (or as much of it as I have time to read) and give some feedback. My email's in my profile.
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I'm not so much looking for copyediting, as I already know there are grammar issues and little things like that throughout (it is a first draft after all), and I plan on doing a fair bit of editing that'll probably make that sort of editing moot anyway.
I guess I'm interested in bigger, general questions:
Do you even like it? Does it hold your interest? What do you particularly like or not like? Does the story itself make sense, what is confusing? Are the characters interesting, what would you like to see less or more of? Is the writing engaging or just terrible?
It IS a first draft manuscript, so some of the prose might be a little threadbare in places where more style and effort will be required in editing, but I'm not sure if I have the perspective to pick up on what's just plain awful writing since I've been working on it closely for seven months.
With this draft, I mostly want to make sure the story is down, makes sense, is actually entertaining, and the characters are mostly developed (or rather, are in the process of being developed) and as a reader you connect with or like them.
What holes there are in those aspects will be fixed with our first round of editing, and I'll also start to look seriously as style issues to make it much prettier.
In other words, an overall critique on everything.
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'm pleased to announce that after several long delays, I've finally finished a complete first draft of my novel. What was originally planned as a 70,000 word book topped out at 109,382 words. I'm sure editing will cull a lot of the fat from that, but we'll see.
So, AFR and Bella Bee, if your offer to read is still good, I'd love to send this draft to you with the same guidelines I posted above. I just need a really solid close reading on just about every aspect you're willing to take the time to critique. If you want to put comments in the text in a different color font, or use Word comment feature, or something else, that's fine. Anything would be helpful.
I know it has some rough spots, some thin area that need buffing up, spots where the style is sparse, and still others where the language is probably overwrought when I got carried away. Just point out anything that catches your attention.
And if anyone else is willing to read and will have the time over the next couple weeks, please feel free to volunteer. I appreciate it.
posted
Sure. Send it my way. I'm still more than willing to go through it for you. Hopefully my reading will be of some help. Congratulations on finishing up the draft!
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lyrhawn: While I really enjoyed the overall premise of your short novella, "Doom: Repercussions of Evil" I have to say I feel it is too short to qualify for a nano project. While there was a good enough introduction for the tragic protagonist John Stalvern much of the resolution is hazy and unclear and it is too vague to really be compelling in terms of outlying Stalvern's fall. How did Cernel Joson know what had happened to Stalvern? Is Cernel a name or a rank? How does a radio 'crackered?'
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I'm pleased to announce that after several long delays, I've finally finished a complete first draft of my novel. What was originally planned as a 70,000 word book topped out at 109,382 words. I'm sure editing will cull a lot of the fat from that, but we'll see.
So, AFR and Bella Bee, if your offer to read is still good, I'd love to send this draft to you with the same guidelines I posted above. I just need a really solid close reading on just about every aspect you're willing to take the time to critique. If you want to put comments in the text in a different color font, or use Word comment feature, or something else, that's fine. Anything would be helpful.
I know it has some rough spots, some thin area that need buffing up, spots where the style is sparse, and still others where the language is probably overwrought when I got carried away. Just point out anything that catches your attention.
And if anyone else is willing to read and will have the time over the next couple weeks, please feel free to volunteer. I appreciate it.
Thanks! And hooray!
I will admit that I'm a sucker for some YA novels.... Too many Goosebumps books as a child.
I would like to give it a read if you don't mind. I'll throw it on my Kindle and go to town
If you would like my email is my Hatrack username at gmail.
Since my in-laws are here in the country visiting and I don't speak Albanian, I find myself with quite a bit of free time right now.
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After this week I will have tons of free time. I'd love to look over your work. I can't promise top-tier criticism, but I can always write my thoughts.
Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008
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Absolutely, send it over, I'd love to read it - and I'll try to give whatever feedback I can in as much detail as possible.
I have two crazy weeks ahead of me at work, but then hopefully over the holidays and into January I'll have a lot more time.
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You could always ask Icarus for input. He and his wife Cor have won several major awards down here, and are currently shopping completed books with the help of their agents. They aren't published, yet, but they are as close to it as you can be without actually publishing something...
About the differences in processes, anyway. I am not sure they have time to proofread or anything that time consuming, as they are both teachers as well as promising writers. But I bet he would have some ideas in general. Posts: 15081 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sent to Bella Bee, Geraine and Blayne. Let me know if anyone wants a file type different from a PDF.
T:Man is up next.
Kwea - Yeah, I thought about pestering Scott R as well, since I thought he had some actual publication experience. But I'm a combination of apprehensive of asking people that much better than me, for fear of devastating rejection, and don't want to bug too many people I know I really busy. Maybe after I get some initial feedback so I can fix the big stuff, so he doesn't have to wade through so much crap?
I don't mind pestering all of you. Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I'm technically published, but not in such a way that it renders unto me any special ability or skill in critique. I can't promise I'll be able to come up with the time, but since it would cost you nothing to e-mail it to me and since I'm willing to try to come up with the time, you can send it to me if you like. My screenname, with a period between the words, at gmail. Or my janitor account here is still active.
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I don't expect anyone to be an expert, and frankly maybe it's better if you aren't. It's written for regular readers, so getting realistic feedback from people who would hypothetically read it is fantastic for the moment. Any thoughts you might have, whether I agree with them or not, will be helpful.
For anyone who is pressed for time, if you want to read a couple chapters at a time and send me your thoughts, it might prove easier for both of us. That way I can start cracking away at the first few chapters, and you won't feel the pressure to complete the whole thing quickly. But whatever works best for each of you is fine with me.
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I should also ask if anyone wants me to reformat it to something more readable?
It's currently in single spaced Times New Roman 12 point font.
If something else would be easier to read for those I went it to in PDF form, or for the sake of commenting, let me know and I'll change it.
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004
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If you want, I could take a look at it. Fiction writing isn't technically my thing, but like everyone else here, I can claim the qualification of having read a lot . And it gives me another excellent way to procrastinate writing my dissertation. I think you have my email, but let me know if not.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I'm not sure what I did with your email. I think I had it saved on my old gmail account, but I lost that after I graduated. Can you either make it known here, or email me at "a h hobart at gmail"? No spaces between the words and letters.
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If I've missed anyone who wants a copy, let me know.
Otherwise, if anyone would like to throw out random comments, with appropriate spoiler alerts, I'd love to see a discussion start here. Or you can feel free to email me comments however you see fit.
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Not sure how I've missed this thread up until now. Lyrhawn, I'd love to read your draft. Could you send it as anything but a pdf? Then I can convert to an ebook more easily.
I just realized this is my second post all year. Wow.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Sent you a copy Miro. I'm honored to bring you out of pseudo retirement. I hope you enjoy it. Feel free to post comments here or email me when you get to reading it. No rush. I've got editing in the back of my mind, but I'm not going to touch it for at least a week, maybe more.
Now that I've finally finished, I feel like I need a good two week vacation to let it sit before I tackle it again.
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Just wondering if anyone has managed to make any progress and how you're all doing with it. I know it's only been two weeks since I sent it out, so no pressure, just curious to see if anyone has some thoughts they'd like to share or anything. I've already had one person get all the way through it with some very helpful feedback.
I look forward to hearing from the rest of you.
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I'm enjoying it, but as I said before I don't have a lot of time until next week, so I've only got to chapter 4.
Hopefully this weekend or at some point next week I'll be able to start sending some feedback - as I say, I like it so far.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I can send you what I've reviewed so far if you want, but I plan to go back through and add more comments once I've read through the whole thing.
Aside from the first half of the first chapter, it's been pretty smooth reading and quite entertaining.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by advice for robots: Still going. Enjoying the novel so far!
I can send you what I've reviewed so far if you want, but I plan to go back through and add more comments once I've read through the whole thing.
Aside from the first half of the first chapter, it's been pretty smooth reading and quite entertaining.
Whichever way you like is fine. If you want to send me what you have so far I'll look at it now and work it into my editing notes, and then I can go back later and read whatever comments you add in. But I don't want to stifle your process, so whatever works best for you is fine for me.
Most of all, I'm glad you're enjoying it (sans the first couple chapters, which I agree have their rough parts).
Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I didn't realize this was done and my world-class lurking missed it at the top of the page. Can I have a copy to peruse?
Posts: 258 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by happymann: I didn't realize this was done and my world-class lurking missed it at the top of the page. Can I have a copy to peruse?
Sent to the email address in your profile. Enjoy.
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