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» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Bootcamps?

   
Author Topic: Bootcamps?
Smaug
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What are the Hatrack Bootcamps? I'm fairly new here, just kind of trying to find my way around. Sort of like when I was in 7th grade and asked some 9th grader where my class was.
The 9th grader promptly pointed me in the opposite direction. You wouldn't do that, would you?

Shane


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autumnmuse
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OSC teaches a class each summer for aspiring writers. Out of a hundred plus applicants he whittles the list down to only 15 students, whom he chooses by reading their writing samples. Those lucky few spend an intense week writing and getting critiques on their work.

From what I understand it is an awesome and valuable process.

Unfortunately I will never get to experience it, which is a major bummer. I applied this year and OSC turned me down because he didn't think he could teach me anything. I disagreed. And from what I hear from other students, I missed out on a lot.

It's definitely something to save up for, and costs in the neighborhood of $750 for the week.

If you can't go to the full week, he also offers a two-day workshop at the beginning open to anyone, which is also supposed to be pretty good.

This year it was held in Utah, next year it will be held at Southern Virginia University (at least from what I understood).

Hope that answers your questions. For more specific information, anyone here who was fortunate enough to be accepted to the class can tell you more.


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MaryRobinette
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Well, you'll need an elevator pass to get there. Didn't they issue one when you registered for the forum?

Seriously though, autumnmuse hit the bases. There are several threads on what BootCamp is like. Just search for Boot Camp and enjoy the reading.


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Smaug
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Well, you'll need an elevator pass to get there. Didn't they issue one when you registered for the forum?

I tried cracking the code, peering around the corner, breaking in through any means possible-well, I haven't enlisted any hackers yet. Just kidding everyone--I'm not that bad of a kid. (wanna bet?)

Thanks, both of you for the information.

Shane

[This message has been edited by Smaug (edited September 10, 2005).]


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Some of the topics on OSC's Literary Boot Camps (that aren't in the Private area):

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000194.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000282.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000375.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000504.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000609.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000882.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/000946.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/001820.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/002167.html

http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/002215.html


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Varishta
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Sounds like a lot of fun. Hope they're still doing this in, say, a couple of years.

(Varishta starts saving pennies and honing her writing skills.....)


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rcorporon
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Sounds good, but living in Japan pretty much means "No boot camp for you!" (I mean me)

Ronnie


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quidscribis
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Hey Ronnie, I completely understand.

I'm in Sri Lanka.


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rcorporon
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Nice to know that somebody else will be reading my posts as I post them, opposed to 12 hours later.

How's life in Sri Lanka?

Ronnie


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Silver3
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I understand as well; I'm in France, which is less far than Sri Lanka, but travel to the US is unlikely for me now.
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Corky
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So what you do is persuade Mr. Card to schedule a boot camp in the Orient or in Europe the next time he is there promoting a book. (I have no idea when that would be, but it's an idea, right?)

[This message has been edited by Corky (edited September 20, 2005).]


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Swimming Bird
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Isn't OSC rich enough to not have to charge close to a thousand dollars a week?
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Beth
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Are you serious?

Do you believe people should be paid based on how much money they need, rather than on the value of what they're offering?


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Swimming Bird
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It's the consumers job to determine if that value is worth a thousand dollars.
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Beth
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Right. But how does Card's net worth affect your perception of the value of his offering?
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Swimming Bird
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It puts me off. I see it as being in bad taste.

Like Bill Gates charging a thousand bucks a week on private computer lessons.


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Ahavah
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Chances are, a thousand dollar/week computer class with Bill Gates would get you a lot further than a sixy dollar course at a tech college.

I'm hoping to have enough left over from tax returns that I may be able to apply next year. It would completely be worth it. I heard him speak once for free, and it helped me immensely. I can only imagine what a week-long intensive could do for me.


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Spaceman
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As someone who has attended bootcamp, let me tell you that Card not only gives up a full week of working on his own stuff, he also puts in almost as many hours as the students. I could tell he was exhausted at the end. Then he took off to catch a plane.
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Elan
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$1000 is a miniscule amount when you look at the amount of time and financial cost to put on such a workshop. Plus, you should do some price shopping... week long workshops can easily go for $3000 to $10,000 (no kidding!) I used to work for a place that hosted retreats all the time.

Take a look at this issue another way. If, by investing $1000, you honed your writing skills well enough to sell your favorite manuscript, would the cost be worth it to you? Particularly if you picked up skills in that workshop you would have gotten in no other way? If this level of teaching on the craft of writing was easy to provide, it would be available in every community college across the country. But getting a successful, published author to give you this much personal attention to teach you the craft is well worth $1000 bucks in my opinion.

Now, all I have to do is come up with the money!!!


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Ahavah
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Elan, let's have a bakesale! LOL It'd be nice to see you there.

Actually, I'm more concerned that I wouldn't get accepted as opposed to how much it would cost.


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Elan
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I figure by the time I can actually afford it, I'll be so danged good due to the critiques from my Hatrack buddies, that OSC won't have any choice but to let me in! Of course, we could all have the problems of autumnmuse, who was too GOOD to get in! Lucky girl.
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Smaug
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Should the world's best brain surgeon charge less because he's rich enough already? Okay, maybe so if a real needy person needs it. Bad example LOL!!
I think you let the market decide on the value of any given commodity. If it's worth it to you, you'll pay it--if it's not worth it to you then you might find some other way that's cheaper to learn the same skills. And you might not.
I look at it this way, as a guitarist, if I had to pay nearly a grand for a week with Eric Clapton showing me the ropes---I'd seriously consider it.
If it was Jim Monson, my next door neighbor--I wouldn't.


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Robyn_Hood
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I was sort of hoping he would hold it in Greensboro next year. That way I could combine it with a trip to see my sister and her husband.

As for the cost...I think there is a bit of a psychological factor in there. If you get something for nothing, you are more likely to put less of a value on it. It also probably helps to weed out the people are only marginally interested or committed.

[This message has been edited by Robyn_Hood (edited September 21, 2005).]


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Spaceman
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You're better off having it away from Greensboro. You wouldn't have time to visit. None. I'm serious.
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Survivor
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You could save a two way ticket for your completely seperate trip to see your sister, though
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MaryRobinette
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Robyn_Hood hit the nail on the head.

In addition a) He's not rich.
b) It costs him money to have a workshop. (Plane tickets to Utah. Rental of facility. He's not writing.)
c) OSC charges $750 for the workshop. He said in class that he used to give them away because he couldn't imagine anyone wanting to pay money to hear him talk, but he wound up with autograph seekers who were there for the glory not to work on their writing. So now he charges and he gets students who want to learn.

It was money well-spent, in my opinion.


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Swimming Bird
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So I doubt he offers some kind of a "scholarship" program?
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punahougirl84
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Facility rentals at universities often include an hourly rate for the space, surcharges for weekend days, set up and tear down fees, custodial fees, equipment fees, deposits, application fees, insurance fees... There are many workshops available in the world of writing - ever looked up the fees for Clarion (for 2005 - $1500 for 6 weeks - I don't have 6 weeks!, plus $100 application fee, plus $1000 for mandatory housing, plus submission of two short stories, 10-25 pages each - course you do get 4 MSU credits - not hosted by just one guy - limited financial aid and scholarships are available)? If OSC's bootcamp is too expensive, there maybe something else out there for you!

There is nothing wrong with asking if financial aid is available. But there is nothing wrong with the host of a workshop not providing financial aid either. And this is part of OSC's "job" as it were. Would you offer to work for your employer for a week for free?

If I ever wanted to attend, and was accepted, I think I'd need to ask for daycare *insert my husband's voice here saying, "Don't leave me with the kids!"* LOL! (big joke, kidding, really!)

[This message has been edited by punahougirl84 (edited September 23, 2005).]


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rickfisher
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A college semester is generally about 13 weeks, with 3 one-hour classes per week. That's thirty-nine hours of teacher contact time (considering a lecture as contact). You get more than that in Boot Camp, and lots of it is real contact time. How many college courses can you take for a paltry $750 taught by one of the pre-eminent people in the field?
You can count the number on the fingers of one foot.

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Spaceman
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quote:
In addition a) He's not rich.

That's something to keep in perspective if you're expecting the big time after getting published. OSC has a full shelf at Borders as one of the more popular writers in speculative fiction.


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