Here is paragraph two, mostly with your wording, but tightened a bit:
He elbowed his way through the crowd until he stood next to her, his eyes level with her (lovely?) shoulder(s). A furtive look down her legs revealed the low heels of her sandals. He coughed until he had her attention, and then made his gambit. “You love lions?”
I'm not thrilled with his name, unless the target age group is sub-16
posted
It seems like a cute story. I felt I didn't get a clear sense of their age. You refer to the female as a girl, but then compare her to a woman. "Girl" could mean any age. She seemed like she was really young (eleven?) His pick-up line made him sound as if he were quite a bit older.
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quote:Leon’s heart pounded when he set eyes on the girl who watched the lions. She looked like the woman who played the starring role in many of his daydreams.
The move from girl to woman stands out, but it could emphasize a difference between the actual and the dreams. I'd be willing to bear with the author to see how it goes.
quote:On the spot he decided he’d marry her.
I think it would be clearer with a comma after "on the spot," which seems to be an introductory phrase.
quote:He observed his future wife with an intensity that matched her fascination with the antics of the lions.
What antics? To me, this was a weak description since we don't know what the antics are. What are they doing, that could be described as antics?
I'm all for letting the reader fill in the details of a scene with just a couple clues, but I don't see lions doing antics. I see them lazing around.
quote:He elbowed his way through the crowd until he stood right next to her. He discovered his eyes came level with her shoulder. A furtive look down her legs revealed the low heels of her sandals. He coughed several times to draw her attention the next phrase seems independent, so a comma before AND would work well. and when she glanced in his direction, he made his gambit. “You love lions?”
I like the lack of a "he said" tag here. It wasn't needed and you omitted it. Good job.
quote:Her eyes blinked and her eyebrows shot up.
Her eyebrows shot up? Reminds me of drug abuse. This action felt overdone to me--eyes blinking and eyebrows shooting up all at once. ("and" makes things feel simultaneous to me.) The image it produced in my mind was comical.
I could see eyebrows shooting up in response to some big surprise, but it felt out of place to me here.
quote: “Yes, they’re beautiful.” Ready to dismiss him, she shook her manes and turned her head.
Manes? I can understand the comparison of hair to a mane, sometimes. Rarely. Manes is plural, so she somehow has more than one? Maybe I'm just not familiar enough with manes.
quote:“You must love me then. You see, I’m a lion myself. Name’s Leon.”
I think it's wordy in a couple places. "He discovered his eyes came level with her shoulders." It could just as easily be "His eyes were level with...." Similarly, "when he set eyes on..." could work just as well as "when he saw..."
I'm not sure on the setting. With both lions and a crowd, I'm assuming it's a zoo.
I'm not hooked. Something about it felt too rushed to me. I see his reaction when he sees her, but not after that. If seeing her made his heart pound--what does talking to her do?
posted
In the first paragraph you refer to the girl, the woman, his future wife, and a few "her" pronouns. I *know* they're all the same person, but it's a little tricky to go through so many different words.
I think you have a point of view violation - presumably you're in Leon's point of view. You make a mention near the end with "ready to dismiss him..." how would he know she was ready to dismiss him? She could shake her mane dismissively, or turn away from him, but unless you're doing 3rd person omnicient point of view, he wouldn't know that her intent was dismissive if she just shook her head.
Also, agree on the eyebrows/eyelids. What are you trying to convey? Was she surprised that someone noticed that she loves lions? An expression of surprise would have wide eyes, raised eyebrows, body language of turning more toward the speaker if they said somethign that surprised and intrigued you, etc. If you're committed to the "eyes blinked" at least make it that SHE blinked her eyes. Her eyes blinked sounds a little weird. Yes, they do it on their own too, but it's an action a human has muscular control over, so a human can blink his/her own eyes.
Just a few thoughts to get you going. Good luck with this piece.
quote: Leon’s heart pounded when he set eyes on the girl who watched the lions.<--[Awesome. I like the Lions, too, although their winning average hasn't been anything to write about since the days of Barry Sanders.] She looked like the woman who played the starring role in many of his daydreams. On the spot he decided he’d marry her.<--[Pretty shallow. How old is Leon?] He observed his future wife with an intensity that matched her fascination with the antics of the lions<--[This must be one of last year's games. But, it should be the antics of the defense. The offense weren't anything special.].
He elbowed his way through the crowd until he stood right next to her.<--[He didn't spill anyone's beer or get accosted by a hotdog vendor?] He discovered his eyes came level with her shoulder. A furtive look down her legs revealed the low heels of her sandals. He coughed several times to draw her attention and when she glanced in his direction, he made his gambit. “You love lions?”[Eh? They're not The Lions?] Her eyes blinked and her eyebrows shot up. “Yes, they’re beautiful.” [Definately not The Lions.]Ready to dismiss him, she shook her manes[Eh? Wait you don't literally mean Love lions, do you?] and
When you wrote "mainstream", I wasn't looking for any spec-fic element. This line-by-line is not trying to be humorous, it's my real impressions when I read through this the first time.
Worse yet, if I read it like they are at a zoo, which I'm never told, there's nothing to promise conflict (story-wise, not literal meaning), or tell me why I should be interested in turning the page.
I hope this is helpful.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited September 24, 2007).]
posted
I think you need to make it clearer what the relationship with Leon and the woman is going to be. As I read it I kind of got the impression that Leon was some kind of obsessive stalker - "he decided on the spot he would marry her" though I might be wrong there. I think Lehollis made a good point in that Leon's heart is pounding as he sees the woman through the crowd but when he talks to her he seems totally relaxed.
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posted
Hi, Here's what I think: 1. After reading your opening I'm curious because the situation is interesting. Why does the girl watch lions? Who is Leon? Those are the questions I'd want answering. 2. While the opening in general stimulates curiousity the first line itself isn't particularly strong. It seems mundane and in my opinion the first line is the most important in a story. 3. Are they in a zoo? If they are, then you'll find that fascination with lions is not unusual 4. The 'starring role' comment doesn't seem to work for me. It seems...like the kind of thing you'd read in a trashy romance. It's too easy, I think. This is reinforced by the idea that he would marry her without even knowing her. 5. I'd suggest adding something about Leon in the opening. Give the reader a reason to want to follow him through the tale.
Having said all that I'm curious enough to want to see the rest of the tale. Email if you can.
posted
Inconsiderate Babbler, thanks for your welcome. Are you in charge of hazing at this forum? The last time i saw you do this to a newcomer, i didn't lurk for a few weeks. This time, i decided that this forum isn't for me.
Btw, i find sports such as a waste of time that i don't know anything about it. Even in that regard your reply wasn't helpful.
posted
IB is not in charge of hazing around here - no one is, since there is no actual hazing going on. I actually chuckled at his interpretation of your first thirteen (which I've noticed you have removed from your original post). He was not criticizing unduly, not being particularly harsh. He was illustrating (with your assistance) how a lack of context can lead a reader to make incorrect assumptions about a scene. It happens to us all from time to time: in our minds, we see the scene we're setting and get so wrapped up in our character interactions that we forget to set the scene for our readers.
Knowledge of sports would not have assisted you in deciphering his comments.
As usual, and as a good reminder for those of us who might have forgotten, the best response to a critique has been displayed by gimpel in his previous post.
posted
If you weren't up for feedback, please don't post here. If you don't find someone else's feedback helpful (or amusing,) please move on.
Hazing? You asked for feedback and received HONEST feedback. If it doesn't fit, skip it. Posting about hazing shows incredible disrespect for all who spent the time reading, thinking about, and taking the time to provide their feedback to you.
There are plenty of times I get feedback on a piece of mine that is different from where I want to go with a story, or seems like the poster missed the point. Doesn't matter. One person thought it, it's up to me as the writer to decide if I'm going to act on it.
If you are willing to try this again, you might want to start with the Please Start Here intro/FAQ forum at the top of the main board. They explain the purpose of these forums, as well as tips for what to include, why we use the 13 lines format, and ways to respond to critiques.
posted
Gimpel, I'm sorry you didn't find the forums here useful. You're right, the critiques here are not everyone's cup of tea.
I, for one, have always found the comments here insightful, witty, thorough, well-intentioned, and perhaps most valuably, honest. That's not a quality that's easy to find, and certainly not one to be brushed off as "hazing".
[This message has been edited by annepin (edited September 25, 2007).]
posted
You know what? I tried to walk away from this. I tried to leave gimpel's comments hanging. But I can't. Maybe it shows a measure of my weakness, but I couldn't let it hang like I intentionally layered the insults on, or hazed gimpel. If I had, which I have resisted the temptation to do in this post (since I'm being accused of it and all), there would have been no question of my intent.
Let me start by saying I gave an honest impression. I was sure, on my first read, that they were at a football game. It seemed to be confirmed by his elbowing through the crowd. I have never seen that big of a crowd at a zoo. I've been to Busch Gardens and haven't seen a crowd that needed to be elbowed through. I identified the point at which I realized that I was mistaken. If that offends you, gimpel, I'm truly sorry. As I stated in my second sentence below the quotes, I wasn't aiming for humor.
However, the last line of my critique clearly was wrong, as it pokes fun at the "loves lions" thing, and I'm sorry if you didn't see the humor in that comment. I tried to keep the football comments on lighter side to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings. Once again, it seems my whole critique is undone by one sarcastic comment. Yet, in my defense, one comment does not a hazing make.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited September 25, 2007).]
posted
if it had been bears, none of this would have happened. And, obviously, the poor guy has never seen what we do to IAB! Fresh Meat indeed! Posts: 1304 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I'm finally posting on this because of concerns that have been expressed about feedback and misunderstandings that can arise.
I have not posted on this before, because I could see what Inarticulate Babbler was doing, and I have given similar feedback when I felt that the author needed to know my thoughts as I read the work being critiqued.
I do not see what Inarticulate Babbler posted as hazing nor do I see it as mockery of what gimpel wrote. I think there was confusion, however, because the words "My take" do not quite make it completely clear that what Inarticulate Babbler was providing as feedback was "my thoughts as I read this."
I personally believe that providing the author of a work with my thoughts as a reader can be extremely helpful when the work is confusing. This kind of feedback lets the author know what is unclear and what could be made clearer. As we all should know, Clarity is one of the three important things OSC has taught us we need to give to our readers.
Since not all feedback is of this type, though, it might help if critiquers, when they are giving this kind of feedback, say something like "here are questions I had as I read" or "these are my thoughts as I read" or "my first impressions." When the author understands this type of feedback better, the author may be better able to make use of it.
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited October 01, 2007).]
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