posted
The Leighle was spelling over the battle-maps as intently as ever, but looked rather gray. “Leighle, you can take a break.” She didn't hear him, still mouthing the incantation. “Leighle! Pause.” She startled at the order, then finished the phrase, marking the map on the floor with her grubby pencil. She straightened from crouching over it and smoothed her skirt awkwardly. The Leighle still had a child's way of moving though she was a long-limbed woman in shape. “Is there a matter in which I can be of assistance, Lord of the Grey?” “People of flesh need rest. It's time for you to eat, get water, sit down. And maybe practice a little informality, eh?”
***
This is a short story I'm looking for any form of critique on. I've done an initial smoothing-over revision, but want to know more about the flaws in narrative structure and overarching things like that that should be dealt with.
I understand the beginning here is a little slow. The story isn't exactly action packed, either. If that makes it something for my enjoyment only, so be it! I'd like to know that, too.
[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited June 16, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited June 16, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited June 16, 2008).]
posted
I'm interested, mainly because I want to know what manner of creature this is.
"spelling over" confused me. On first read I thought it meant she was casting a spell. "poring over"?
The repetition of Leighle three times in the first two paragraphs bothers me, maybe because the title is also Leighle. I wanted to stop hearing the word and start hearing the story. It was also confusing to have a "The" in one place and have it used as a name in other places. I think it would work to use "the" outside of dialog and no "the" within dialog, but it should be consistent.
Any reason you spell grey with an e in the first sentence, but Lord of the Gray's name with an a?
"a crouch over it on the floor" is awkward. Just "straightened from a crouch"? Also "straightened" is repeated twice.
quote: The Leighle [The what?] was [spelling over the battle-maps<--[Huh?] as intently as ever, but looking rather gray. “Leighle, you can take a break.” She [Whom?] didn't hear him [Whom?], still [mouthing the incantation<--[Huh? Who was "mouthing and incantation" and when?]. “Leighle! Pause.” She startled at the order, then finished the phrase, marking the map with her grubby pencil[Huh? When did a pencil come into the picture? What happened to the incantation?]. She straightened from a crouch over it[The Pencil? The Map?] on the floor and [straightened<--Second use in the same sentence. Maybe use smoothed instead.] her skirt awkwardly<--[Can't picture this? How is it done awkwardly?]. Leighle [I'm confused now. Is Leighle a name or a title?] still had a child's way of moving[,] though she was a [long-limbed woman in shape<--Maybe this would be smoother as:She was a long limbed, shapely woman.?]. “Is there a matter in which I can be of assistance, Lord of the Grey?”<--[I'm assuming your mulitple spellings of "gray/grey" are intentional? If so, I don't know how the second differs from the first.] “People of flesh [If he's not of the flesh--and he's speaking--I need to know what he is, and now.] need rest. It's time [for you<--[If he's not of the flesh, she'd know he's referring to her.] to eat, get water[,<--[Replace with the word "and".] sit [down<--Goes without saying. If there was a different meaning, THEN it would be worth mentioning. Not that she's standing...]. And maybe practice a little informality, eh?”
The hook is not the problem--I know who she is<--[almost] and what she's doing there--clarification is the problem. You can see what's going on, but you need to break it down for us.
1) Where are they? A cabin? Castle Hall? Spacecraft? (I don't know why, but I picture in the cabin of a galley.)
2) Clean up the PoV. Is it Lord of the Grey's--the closest I can see?
3) What is a Leighle? The prose doesn't explain, and doesn't look like it is going to.
4) What is she doing, exactly? Extrapolating: Mouthing and incantation to spirit-write (or what's called Automatic Writing)?
5) If it's from the Lord of the Grey's PoV, we need to know how he's different, why he has [the?] Leighle divining (or whatever), and what he's observing.
A little 13 line brainstorming--though this is probably going to be a far cry from what you intend:
Ominis watched the woman through the eyes of the sea captain he possessed. The woman was a Leighle, a diviner, and she was new to the flesh. She sat cross-legged on the floor, tirelessly scribbling on a battle map with a grubby pencil and chanting an ancient incantation. After six hours, the string of minute runes ate across more than half of the map. Her gaze focused somewhere beyond the cabin wall. The gentle rocking of the galley did not seem to have an effect on her.
"You need a rest, Leighle," he said.
"Is there another matter that requires my attention, Lord of the Grey?" She shifted to her knees and smoothed her skirts.
"Food and rest are necessary to maintain flesh suits," Ominis said, frowing at her formality.
I hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by InarticulateBabbler (edited June 17, 2008).]
posted
Not to place too much emphasis on passive verb constructs, as an editor, I think the use of any form of the verb to be should [must, in my revision processes] be examined for weakness. As a reader, when I see a construction like "was spelling" in the first sentence, it instantly turns on my critical sense and switches off my enjoyment-reader sense. 'Spelled' all by itself is more robust and not as likely to summon the critical attention demon.
Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
Looks interesting. I'll read the whole thing for you if you like. May take 3 or 4 days depending.
quote:s a reader, when I see a construction like "was spelling" in the first sentence, it instantly turns on my critical sense and switches off my enjoyment-reader sense
Not that I necessarily disagree but some times I think people here on hatrack loose site of something. Most regular readers don't really have a "critical sense" about writing. They either enjoy it or they dont. And, I think, most readers are more concerned with subject matter than literary intricacies.
Of course editors might. And its not to say we shouldnt try and perfect things. I just wanted to inject a reminder that most readers are neither writers nor editors...and editors know that.
quote: I think people here on hatrack loose site of something. Most regular readers don't really have a "critical sense" about writing.
...Of course editors might. And its not to say we shouldnt try and perfect things. I just wanted to inject a reminder that most readers are neither writers nor editors...and editors know that.
Most newbies to Hatrack overlook the fact that your not writing for any readers until you get past an editor. That's what we're trying to help each other do.
posted
Sometimes the small bit posted gets a fine-combing that is a little too close, I agree. Which is why I look for a general idea of what's wrong from all the responses.
I do like this forum as a counterpoint to more friendly critiques that don't go all out, but I tend to swing by rather than hang out because things can get hypercritical.
That said, I really hope this conversation closes. I do not want to wade past combusting opinions to get at critiques, please.
posted
Indeed. I just wanted to inject a small counterpoint. Please, carry on, and my inviation for a full read of course stands. I want to find out what this is about :-)
Posts: 2626 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
There, I've fixed the grammatical issues mentioned.
I'm not quite sure what to do about "spelling over it" since that's the exact word that I meant--I understand it's an archaic/outdated use of the word, but it's more active than "poring" and indicates the spells involved.
I think that having indicated by "the Leighle" that she is something other than just a person called that, the next paragraph's explanation of her origins probably suffice. I don't want to overload the opening with too much detail--it's quite possible I need to add some more throughout, but quite a few of the things mentioned as lacking in these first 13 are at least in the first page.
posted
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was..." the opening lines of Charles Dickens' Tale of Two Cities are rife with passive verbs. As a hook, the prosody carried me over the hump.
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posted
The verb, "to be," in all its forms is a "static" (as in "state of being") verb.
Please, while on the Hatrack River Writers Workshop forum, at least, restrict the use of the term "passive" to references to "passive voice" which is the term for turning the object of the predicate/verb into the subject of the sentence (as in "the man was bitten by the dog").
posted
I had similar confusions to IB's. I think largely it's a sentence structure issue, making sure modifiers and pronouns have clear references. It stood out to me that the Leighle is grey (or rather, gray) and the man is known as the Lord of the Grey. If greyness isn't going to be a big factor I'd consider cutting out the repetition.
I was a bit put off by the (to me) unpronounceable name at the get go. Still, I would turn the page. The hook, and it's a mild one, was the mentioning of battle maps and the potential relationship between the whatever and the whomever.
posted
I thought there was something I wasn't getting about the passive comment. Thanks for clarifying that for me!
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posted
I can read for you this weekend. If I get inspired, we can swap out. Usually, when IAB gets ahold of me, I pass on the "take it with a grain of salt" and go straight for the virtual valium. But, he is pretty cool, so we let him stay.
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posted
I was right there with IB. There are some really neat things happening but I don't have a firm picture of what's going on in the scene. A good clean up edit looking at the issues raised here probably cures most of my "Hu?" moments.
Whether you are an editor or pleasure reader, no one likes being confused by what the author is trying to say. I think I'm going to have to dig up WBrigg's post on the first 13. The trick is not to spell out the entire story in those 13 lines but to make sure everything about the story in those 13 lines is clear and compelling you to read line 14.
posted
Just so we're clear, I don't have a problem with the issues raised here of putting more grounding detail in these first few lines. I was not really arguing with that (though I think IB's example shows exactly what I do NOT want to do with this story, which is make it a standard top-heavy fantasy opening).
posted
The Leighle was spelling over the battle-map she'd spread on the floor boards as intently as ever, but looked rather gray. “I think you can take a break,” Caer said. She didn't hear him, still mouthing the incantation. “Leighle! Pause.” She startled at the order. After finishing the phrase, she marked the stopping-point with her grubby pencil and straightened from a crouch, smoothing her short, pleated skirt awkwardly. The Leighle had a child's way of moving, though she was a long-limbed woman in shape. “Is there a matter in which I can be of assistance, Lord of the Grey?” “People of flesh need rest. It's time for you to eat, get water, sit down. And maybe practice a little informality, eh?”
I think this clarifies POV, since Caer is denoted to be speaking much more quickly. It also clears the waters over where she is doing what--it doesn't say immediately that she's in a building, but it does mention floors, and her skirt should indicate a bit about the modernity of the era. It also reduces the annoyance of repetition about Leighle, removing the second instance of it. But what do you think?
[This message has been edited by ArachneWeave (edited June 18, 2008).]
1. The Leighle was spelling over the battle-map she'd spread on the floor boards as intently as ever, but looked rather gray.
I don't see how these two things are connected. She was working as hard as ever, but looked gray? I assume this is from Caer's POV, and that the Leighle isn't a human but some metaphysical creature who has possessed the body of a human. If this is true, could you find some way of indicating that she is working harder than her body is capable of? Maybe have her comment about a loss of focal control perplexing her? Slower cognitive capabilities? Just the use of a color is kind of making me pause, when I really shouldn't be.
2. The Leighle had a child's way of moving, though she was a long-limbed woman in shape.
Show us this fact rather than tell us this fact, through a simple rewording. ...smoothing her short, pleated skirt awkwardly, an almost child-like movement, though physically she was near as old as Caer was himself... Something to that effect.
3. “People of flesh need rest. It's time for you to eat, get water, sit down. And maybe practice a little informality, eh?”
This just sounds like written dialogue to me, rather than how someone would actually speak. Well, maybe the first part is alright, but have you ever found yourself saying and maybe practice a little informality, eh? The voice you're using for Caer seems to be more modern - maybe toss some lingo in there? Chill out a little, will you? Or maybe And try to act more natural, will you?
I dunno. Just my thoughts. I still like this, and I'd read on to see what's afoot.
Jayson Merryfield
[This message has been edited by Wolfe_boy (edited June 18, 2008).]
Is "grey" as in looking pale and unwell a colloqualism or something? I didn't think it would be so hard to understand used that way.
I'll change that word to "pale". And "eh" to "huh?" for an initial unstiffening there. The "eh" came before I knew exactly where I'd placed this in time. I bet there are some inconsistencies through-out since that developed as I wrote it...
posted
I'll try again, more complex this time but perhaps clearer and more determined than ever to smooth out the syntax.
"Was spelling" is in the past progressive tense. The rest of the excerpt is in present past tense. Past progressive is an auxilliary tense of present past when it relates the progression of an event started in the relatively remote past that's finished in the present past tense of the sentence. Relative time references such as "when" complete time progressions. [The Leighle was spelling over the battle-map she'd spread on the floor boards as intently as ever when Caer entered,]
"the battle-map she'd spread on the floor boards" separates "was spelling" from its adverb phrase. Instead it says that she spread the battle-map as intently as ever. [The Leighle was spelling as intently as ever over the battle-map she'd spread on the floor boards when Caer entered,]
[floorboards] is a compounded word.
"but looked rather gray" interrupts or changes the direction of the sentence's topic. As such, punctuation conventions recommend a dashed interruption instead of a conjunction comma.
Imprecise meaning of "looked" is a subjective matter. However, to me it suggested she's looking at the map with a gray expression rather than having a gray complexion.
"'I think you can take a break,' Caer said. She didn't hear him, still mouthing the incantation. 'Leighle! Pause.'" is two of Caer's dialogue lines separated by an action of the Leighle's. Paragraph breaks usually separate the dialogue lines and actions of different characters.
"She didn't hear him, still mouthing the incantation." Participle clauses at the end of sentences are often dangling modifiers because they separate the modifier from the subject. The participle clause in the above along with its inclusion with Caer's dialogue implies Caer is mouthing the incantation. [Still mouthing the incantation, she didn't hear him.]
I hope this offers clearer insights into why the meaning of the excerpt is difficult to understand and jumpy in flow.
[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited June 18, 2008).]
posted
I'm definitely interested what a Leighle is, and maybe how it's pronounced. I'm also curious about the relationship between Cael and the Leighle.