posted
After their baptism, the two converts approached me, grins and joy on their faces. "You can be baptized too," one of them offered. "If you have faith," the other chimed in. "Converting won't solve your social problem," the missionary explained, "but it will solve your sin problem."
I was a superclone deep in remote Africa, hunted by the rogue government department that created me. A secret guardian society of dissenting scientists rescued me and several other superclones from a government facility, escorted me here, and "advised" me to stay until their ambitious plan for the human was in place.
No rights, no hope of citizenship. No true relationships, used by everyone. As if I didn't have enough to deal with, now these religionists were asking me to grasp the concept of sin.
posted
You'll need to explain what sort of crit you are looking for. I hesitate to offer you a critique until that is clear--the biggest flaws I can see is are to do with layout and style--but I don't want an accusation of being the 'style police'.
If you just want grammar or spelling checked, I please say so!
posted
I'm sorry if this isn't the kind of critique that you want, but its what I got, so we're just going to have to go ahead with things and hope for the best.
quote:After their baptism, the two converts approached me, grins and joy on their faces. "You can be baptized too," one of them offered. "If you have faith," the other chimed in. (1) "Converting won't solve your social problem," the missionary explained, "but it will solve your sin problem." (2)
I was a superclone deep in remote Africa, hunted by the rogue government department that created me. A secret guardian society of dissenting scientists rescued me and several other superclones from a government facility, escorted me here, and "advised" me to stay until their ambitious plan for the human was in place. (3)
No rights, no hope of citizenship. No true relationships, used by everyone. As if I didn't have enough to deal with, now these religionists were asking me to grasp the concept of sin. (4)
1. Separate speaker, separate paragraph.
2. The dialogue doesn't sound like any proselytizer I've ever heard before. It's not usually a "sin problem", it's probably more often a "state of sinfulness" or perhaps "your sinful ways". Still, your characters, your dialogue, it just doesn't ring 100% true for me.
3. This whole paragraph (and the next as well, though I haven't highlighted it as such) are both examples of two things that, by general consensus, editors hate: infodumps, and telling rather than showing (and before someone chimes in with some editors might actually prefer infodumps and storytelling if it suits the story, perhaps they could provide a few names of these editors, as I've got some substandard fiction that needs a home still). Find some other way on introducing this info to us. It feels like you're trying to juice-up your first 13 my cramming as much as possible into it with these paragraphs, almost like you're saying "hey, wait, don't go yet, see, it's gonna be an awesome story, we got superclones and shady government agencies and a lot of awesome stuff." Take your time and introduce all of this information to us a little more organically. A first 13 doesn't need to have the whole story in it, just a hook - a reason for the reader to keep on reading.
4. This is just a weird logic question. If we're talking superclones a la Khan Noonien Singh, why would the concept of sin be hard for him to grasp? Or are we talking more along the lines of The Incredible Hulk, where he's super strong but not necessarily gifted intellectually?
If I were an editor, I'd probably pass on this story at this point. The concept seems good, but the delivery is lacking.
[This message has been edited by Wolfe_boy (edited November 20, 2009).]
posted
1) Is it clear? 2) Is it intriguing 3) Does the science fiction element sound credible.
All I'm saying about style is that there needs to be a reason for changing it. Either because the current market doesn't welcome it or because another way would be clearer or more intriguing.
Otherwise, it's either personal taste or dogmatism. No writer can make 100% of readers happy and dogmatism won't get anything published.
Skadder, don't hesitate to express yourself. I learn even when I don't agree. Furthermore, I'm familiar with your manuscripts and your critiques. I've never seen you display any tendencies that would catch a Style Police recruiter's attention.
[This message has been edited by adamatom (edited November 20, 2009).]
posted
"It feels like you're trying to juice-up your first 13 my cramming as much as possible into it with these paragraphs, almost like you're saying "hey, wait, don't go yet, see, it's gonna be an awesome story, we got superclones and shady government agencies and a lot of awesome stuff." Take your time and introduce all of this information to us a little more organically."
Yes and no.
Yes, but I didn't decide on the 13 line limit. If I put a lot, some people will say spread it out. If I spread it out, some people say add more.
No, the superclone is cramming too. He's venting that all this other stuff is going on. Major, immediate stuff. On top of all this, these religionists are inviting him to do something that requires an inquiry into a spiritual concept before he could even consider their offer. And by their own admission, accepting their offer wouldn't clear the other stuff off his plate.
He's super intelligent as well as super physical. He can grasp the concept of sin, but he resents the irritation and exasperation.
He has to put up with the religionists or risk incurring the displeasure of the scientists if he leaves the hideout they chose. He endangers their plan if he exposes himself to the government agents, and the scientists are able to inflict just as much on him.
Another reason is he needs the Underground Railroad if the abandons the protection of the scientists. In the next line, he says, "Fortunately, conversion is not a requirement for using the Underground Railroad." But I haven't figured out exactly where 13 lines ends and I was afraid that line would get cut later.
(Of course, the scientists are watching and will stop him if he tries to leave, but he doesn't know this yet. And of course, he will try to leave.)
posted
1) Is it clear? - Fairly. I understood what was going on by the end, but during the second paragraph I was wondering if I was reading the same story. The jump from the religionist to superclone was very abrupt and I suddenly wondered if I was reading a summary of your story. I actually stopped reading and checked the beginning again just to make sure you weren't first giving a summary and the first thirteen were somewhere else.
2) Is it intriguing? Does it make me want to turn the page... no, but the story idea sounds fine. I have no problem with superlcones or rogue governments but the beginning doesn't work for me. Dropping the summary in the middle would help the beginning a lot.
posted
It's clear enough, but, for me, it just dies in that second paragraph. Even if this is appropriate for his POV, is this really how he's thinking about it?
It doesn't give me any voice for the character. Or any reason why I should care about him. Right now, it's kind of like being approached by Hari Krishna's in the airport (back when that happened all the time). Annoying, but it's not really going to drive the conflict in a story.
Intriguing? Well, I was more intrigued before your explanation, when I was thinking of reasons why a clone might not worry about sin. Do clones not have souls? Has he been engineered not to be concerned about good and evil?
With your explanation, I'm thinking this might not be the real start of the story. Sounds like the conflict is between the clone and the scientists, even the ones who say they want to help him. These guys are just annoying.
posted
After their baptism, the (you haven't mentioned them before so I would drop the 'the') two converts approached me, grins and joy (how is the joy expressed? Did you mean 'grins of joy'?) on their faces. "You can be baptized too," one of them offered. "If you have faith," the other chimed in. "Converting won't solve your social problem," the missionary explained (where does he come from?), "but it will solve your sin problem." I was a superclone deep in remote Africa, hunted by the rogue government department that created me. A secret guardian society of dissenting scientists rescued me and several other superclones from a government facility, escorted me here, and "advised" me to stay until their ambitious plan for the human was in place. No rights, no hope of citizenship. No true relationships, used by everyone. As if I didn't have enough to deal with, now these religionists were asking me to grasp the concept of sin.
The story seems to start okay, but then drifts into an info dump.I've seen this tendency on other bits of your work and this is something that is frowned on (me, other writers who are published and in books on the subjects). Even when I read it, it pushes you from what is currently happening into a nebulous past with massive authorial intrusion evident in the explanation. In short it kills the story you are trying to give momentum to.
Avoid 'said bookisms'.
Your layout remains--and I've said it before--confusing. Each speaker should have their own dialogue lines--paragraphed. You may continue on the dialogue line with tags that are relevant to that speaker, but if you change speakers then you should paragraph. If you go to more general prose then you should paragraph too.
Example of a rough re-write (built around details you give)--don't expect this each time:
After their baptism, two converts and the priest approached me, grins of joy plastered on their faces. "You can be baptized too," the taller convert said. "But you need faith." The short one grinned. I smiled, not convinced. "No, thanks." "Converting won't solve your social problems-" The missionary pointed an ancient finger at my chest. "-but it will solve your sin problem." I smiled at the missionary. "Father, my very existence is a sin in the eyes of God. Dipping me in water and mumbling a few words is not going to save my, er...my soul." The priest's eye's widened and he stepped back. "Everyone can be saved, my son," he mumbled. Even super clones? What about us. I wanted to ask him out loud, shake him a little. I wanted the to hear him say that I had a soul, but I bit my tongue. Whispers could run through the jungle, whispers could cross mountains and rivers--Sector Six were always listening, always hunting. I couldn't take the risk.
Try and weave backstory into the story by tying it with a memory or emotion that prompts the re-collection of that information. Intertwine it with the emotion, then it disguises the info dump. There are other ways, but once you get the hang of it, its pretty easy.
[This message has been edited by skadder (edited November 21, 2009).]
posted
I was deep in remote Africa, hunted by the rogue government department that created me. A secret guardian society of dissenting scientists rescued me and several other superclones from a government facility, escorted me here, and "advised" me to stay until their plan for the human race was in place.
I couldn't take the isolation and I had issues to resolve, even if leaving meant taking my chances with those two groups. I had an escape plan, but it involved the Underground Railroad, run by another group of people plaguing me.
After their baptism, two village converts approached me with the missionary in tow. "You can be baptized too," one of them offered. "If you have faith," the other chimed in. Fortunately, conversion wasn't a requirement for using their
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited November 21, 2009).]
posted
Skadder, I like your version a LOT better. My writing is dry, sanitized. A product of decades of nonfiction.
I have a degree in journalism and lots of bylines. I've lost count of the number of times someone read something I wrote - memo, proposal, editorial, whatever; I can do almost all of it - and gushed, "Ohhh, you're a really good writer!" It used to feed my ego. But eventually I got to the point where I was thinking, "Yeah, yeah, OK, I'm a really good writer."
What I wanted to say in most cases was, "Child's play. Anybody with a college degree should be able to whip out something like this." True, but they can't. I tell my ESL students, "Don't get discouraged about your lack of English skills. Even American college students don't write English well." According to one of my English professors, 25 percent of college freshmen failed English 101.
Anyway, the transition from nonfiction to fiction has been difficult. So I envy you.
But apparently my fiction is getting better. Here's a recent critique of Many Gladiators, Young and Skilled:
"OK, first thing, I just want to say, Wowza. That was good. It was plotted and directed accordingly and seemed to flow very naturally. The plot is good and hooking and it would definitely appease any science fiction fan. The characters are plotted flawlessly and seem to be completely natural, as if they didn't have a writer jerking their words about and, unlike puppets on strings, they seemed really believable and seemed to act naturally. I think you've thought about what people who don't like boxing, tournaments and gladiatoring will muse about this, and you've made the story for everyone, not just die hard boxing fanatics as it also has a touch of class in it. I'm not a great boxing/gladiating fan but the way you plot out the story is very captivating about it. All in all, I thought it was great and slightly tactful, the way you slipped in snippets of information about characters in rather than a full block profile if you get my sentiments."
quote:I was deep in remote Africa, hunted by the rogue government department that created me. A secret guardian society of dissenting scientists rescued me and several other superclones from a government facility, escorted me here, and "advised" me to stay until their plan for the human race was in place.
Cut this. It is not immersing me in your story, giving me a sense of place, or making me care about your character.
quote:I couldn't take the isolation and I had issues to resolve, even if leaving meant taking my chances with those two groups. I had an escape plan, but it involved the Underground Railroad, run by another group of people plaguing me.
Cut this down to the last sentence. Something like:
I watched the baptism with clinical interest. It could be debated whether I even had a soul to save. But my plan to escape from this backwater part of remote Africa depended on the Underground Railroad run by these people.
quote:After their baptism, two village converts approached me with the missionary in tow. "You can be baptized too," one of them offered. "If you have faith," the other chimed in. Fortunately, conversion wasn't a requirement for using their Underground Railroad. But faking conversion would make things easier for me. "I have faith," I lied to the missionary, "I'm ready to be baptized."
You really should break up this paragraph. It's not the style police. It's helping your reader understand. (Yes, I know it means your first 13 won't go as far.) Right now you've got thoughts or dialog from four different people in one paragraph.
After the line about faking conversion:
They didn't need to know what or who I was running from or even that I was a superclone. And they really didn't need to know what my plans were once I got back to civilization.
quote:Once back to civilization, I would turn my superiority on my creators. With them out of the way, I would investigate the scientists and discover how I fit into their mysterious plan. Then I would track down and recruit the other superclones. Together, we would confront society about its refusal to grant rights and citizenship to clones. Finally, a suitable mate.
That's still very rough, but that kind of framework might help draw the reader in more.
[This message has been edited by Meredith (edited November 21, 2009).]
posted
"I made up my mind long ago to follow one cardinal rule in all my writing – to be clear. I have given up all thought of writing poetically or symbolically or experimentally, or in any of the other modes that might (if I were good enough) get me a Pulitzer prize. I would write merely clearly and in this way establish a warm relationship between myself and my readers. And the professional critics – well, they can do whatever they wish." - Isaac Asimov
This usually meant a very pedestrian style and enormous amounts of informational dialog, both of which are currently politically incorrect. But it also freed the read to explore with him. And true science fiction explores the results and implications of science and how people respond to those results and implications.
I'm very much a disciple of Asimov's style and his Old School definition of science fiction. I haven't budged on Old School, but I'm striving to be poetic, symbolic, subtle. I'm hardly out of the starting gate. Lots of ideas, not much skill.
posted
"They didn't need to know what or who I was running from or even that I was a superclone."
Good point.
The villagers don't know anything about him. They think he's an engineer helping solve their water problems. He's been very careful not to reveal his identity or his situation, for their safety and his, and I need to add this part of the story to the intro.
The missionary, BTW, having a lot of experience with clones through his involvement in the Underground Railroad, guessed everything early on. And having a lot of experience with conversions, he also immediately realized the superclone's conversion was fake.
posted
New paragraph every time the speaker changes. I will delve into this issue on the writing forum. I will also delve into infodumps and POVs. Break out your BBQ sauce, I'm going to sacrifice some sacred cows.
Posts: 135 | Registered: Oct 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Also be specific. Try and avoid saying 'a dog', when you could say 'a poodle'.
In your intro you talk about the two converts, the refer to them as 'one' and 'the other'. This gives me nothing to picture. Give the descriptive tags--'said the taller one'.
If you read--and I completely recommend it--Strunk and White's, The Elements of Style, you will learn an awful lot about writing in plain style.
quote:New paragraph every time the speaker changes.
Not only the speaker - sometimes you need to also make separate paragraphs for the actions of characters (this depends greatly on wording).
EX:
Tom leaned against a lamppost at the curb. His black fedora and matching overcoat were still spotted with beads of water like the protruding ends of tiny bullets trapped in armored plating. He tapped the tip of his folded umbrella onto the puddled sidewalk as he waited.
Sally, dripping like a wet sponge, approached without speaking.
"Hiya, Sally," he said, fearful to take his eyes away from hers, "Er, I guess I should've picked you up after all."
Sally answered with an opened right hand across the left side of his face.
quote:The missionary, BTW, having a lot of experience with clones through his involvement in the Underground Railroad, guessed everything early on. And having a lot of experience with conversions, he also immediately realized the superclone's conversion was fake.
Okay. But unless your superclone is a telepath, he doesn't know any of that. Since you're writing this in first person we as readers can only know what superclone knows or thinks he knows. So, unless he knows that the missionary is on to him, it doesn't make any difference for this scene.
posted
adamatom just a small word of advice...listen to Meredith. She is wise, she shall be eaten last.
Posts: 2626 | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
