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Author Topic: Elysium
Welsh Hammer
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Well, here goes. My first offering. I feel kind of like Schrodinger's cat. Thanks for the help.

Elysium

As prison ships went, Helio Durante figured this one wasn't half bad. Not at all what he'd expected back at the beginning of this ill-fated adventure, while still safely ensconced in the routine drudgery of the slave planet Elysium. Talking late into the nights with the other neo-militants, exhausted, but too excited to sleep--he'd pay for it tomorrow. But talk of revolution has always been the best of uppers, or so Uncle Stephan--who was no one's uncle and everyone's--had told him, with a twinkle, then laughed and slapped his shoulder.

Not much sleep on prison ships either, Helio noted ruefully, as he listened yet again to the muffled sobs of Ivan Kovac coming from the bunk above him, as Ivan pressed his swollen face hard into his pillow and muttered incoherent longings.


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tchernabyelo
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The writing works well enough, though it could perhaps be a touch clearer in the mini-flashback (though I do like the "no one's uncle and everyone's" line).

My main concern is whether this is really the start of the story. Nothing appears to be actually happening. Is the real start earlier - his introductino to the neo-militants, or his capture, or his arrival on the ship? Or is it going to be later, when something actually happens?


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babooher
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I agree with tchernabyelo.I thought the mini-flashback was a bit confusing. I could follow, but it slowed me down.
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bep1972
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I like the tone a lot, the gritty hard core of the protagonist bleeds off the page.

I'm slow, so I have a few questions. Why are all of the other slaves on the planet also neo-militants? I assume this is cleared up later, but it does give me pause. Is this a political prison colony of some kind? Also, what talk of revolution were they discussing? Seems like they must have been talking about what to expect on the prison ship? Were they expecting horrible conditions that required revolt? Last of my silly confused questions: how do we know Ivan was longing if he was incoherent?

Again, the voice is nice and hard-boiled, my dumb questions are just thinking points. I know nothing, just trying to offer something to spark more thought about your piece that maybe you hadn't considered?


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bluephoenix
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Hey .

I quite liked this, overall; as tchernabyelo said, your prose isn't bad. I think you've got a great opening line, too, but there are a few things that niggled at me after that.

- Wasn't sure about 'ill-fated adventure' - seems a little too flowery for a gritty prison ship scene.
- 'ensconced' jumped out at me - you tend to be ensconed in a throne, or big comfy chair of some kind. It means to secure yourself comfortably, so doesn't seem to go well with 'drugery'.
- You could do away with most of 'Talking late into the nights with the other neo-militants, exhausted, but too excited to sleep--he'd pay for it tomorrow', since all it actually means is 'he'd be tired in the morning'.
- You could also lose most of 'Not at all what he'd expected back at the beginning of this ill-fated adventure, while still safely ensconced in the routine drudgery of the slave planet Elysium', since the only important detail is 'slave planet', and the only other word of note is 'drugery'. You could work both of these things into other sentences, and buy yourself some more room to work with.
- You could probably shorten 'as he listened yet again to the muffled sobs of Ivan Kovac coming from the bunk above him, as Ivan pressed his swollen face hard into his pillow and muttered incoherent longings' by reworking it. You tell us that Ivan is sobbing in two ways (the muffled sobs, and the incoherent longings); I'd choose one and stick with it.

Essentially, I think you are missing opportunities to grab the reader. There's nothing that bad about what you've written structurally, but you've used a lot of your 13 lines on mundane details, instead of on creating a hook. Currently, you have a man on a prison ship, who is waiting for a rebellion. That's potentially a great opening, but you really need to sell it to the reader to get him/her interested. Describe the grit of the ship in more detail / give us more of Ivan or Helio's personality / maybe show a snippet of the rebellion conversation, or have Uncle Stephan join in / ETC, however you want to do it - just cram in all the interesting little details you can. If you can do that without overloading us, you'll have a great first 13, instead of a 'quite interesting' one.

Hope this helps .

Daniel.


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Welsh Hammer
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Hello everyone, thanks for the input.

tchernabyelo: I have thought about this, and it is the only place the story could have started, whether I did it well or not is something else again. Thank you for your kind remark concerning the "no one's uncle and everyone's" line. It was nice to read.

bep1972: Thank you. I'm sorry, but I can't imagine how I could answer all of those questions in the first thirteen lines. Some of them will be answered within the next few paragraphs, however. The thing is, since nothing is as it seems to be, to address all of these questions at the beginning would effectively kill the rest of the story. Of course, there's no way that you could know that, not from thirteen lines.

bluephoenix: You are very observant. "Ensconced" (is) an unusual choice for a prison planet isn't it? It just happens to be the perfect choice for this particular prison planet. Its use was intentional. I used the "Talking late into the nights..." sentence in order to introduce Uncle Stephan and his "talk of revolution" being the best of uppers line, in order to show that Uncle Stephan was the central figure in the fomentation of the revolt. Really, I was cramming like crazy. That said, I have to confess, my writing style was influenced somewhat by what I'd been reading before I began the story. John Le Carre' isn't exactly a simple, straightforward kind of writer. I do that sometimes.

This is a really interesting exercise: how to decide what to put at the beginning of a story to fulfill the expectations of future readers. I will have to think very carefully when I read other writer's first thirteen.

I thank you all for your questions and observations, which were very enlightening.
Just for fun I will provide a few answers:

The rebellion has already occured, which is why they are on the prison ship.
There were only a handful of other neo-militants involved.
Uncle Stephan wasn't anyone's uncle because he was an agent provocateur.
It isn't a political prison colony, but something else entirely.
All work can be considered drudgery over time.
There were no horrible conditions on the planet. It was an (unusually) good world, except for the "(slavery)."
The revolution happened simply because teenaged boys can be easily manipulated.
To the boys it was more adventure than revolution.
Most of them never expected anything truly bad to come of it.
This wasn't the first time Ivan had cried and muttered.
Ivan was crying because half of the boys had been killed, his twin brother executed right in front of him.
The prison ship isn't gritty, but nice and clean and comfortable.
There is never any rebellion conversation recounted in the story. It doesn't matter.
Uncle Stephan isn't in the room for the reason stated above.
In the very next paragraph we learn how the boys were captured: about half of them being seared to crisps; about Ivan's brother being brutally executed immediately after their surrender.

I'll think about what you've all said, and I'll try to tighten the sentences; except, if I do too much, the writing style will of necessity be changed entirely. Ahhhh! I think I'll read some of the other first thirteen and see how I do with someone else's work.

This is very interesting.


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tchernabyelo
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You say "this is the only place the story could have started". Now obviously I don't know what the story is, but I have to question that assertion. Look at the first 13 again. What is established is:
1). Our MC is on a prison ship.
2). He has been on the prison ship for some time.
3). He is on the prison ship because of some failed/attempted revolution

And that is it. Nothing actually happens during the opening. There is no lead-in as to what might happen next. You simply introduce us to someone who is in prison. The reader has no way of knowing whether the story is about what led him to be here, or whether it is about something that will happen to him at some indeterminate point in the future, but as the opening stands nothing is actually happening and therefore it is hard to understand why you say the story couldn't have started anywhere else. Normally a story will begin at a moment of change, and end when the change has either been corrected or accepted (depending how "external" or "internal" the story is - i.e. is the universe set back to broadly the way it was before, or does the protagonist change to accept the change in the universe). There is no moment of change within the current first 13 as far as I can tell.


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Rikki_Ross
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I see starting your second sentence with "Not at all" instead of "It was not at all" sort of risky. It is not quite what is expected, it sounds more like conversational dialogue than formal writing.
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Rikki_Ross
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With the last few sentences that start with "Not much sleep on prison ships either" the word "either" doesn't fit, since it is the first negative thing that has been told to us about the prison ships. Also, the whole idea of that being a problem sort of contradicts when it is first said that he was too excited to sleep and with the first sentence alone, it is redundant since we already know he not sleeping much.

[This message has been edited by Rikki_Ross (edited April 15, 2010).]


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Welsh Hammer
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I have noticed from reading around this board, that it is considered very important to write to a certain set formula in order to get published. Which would be fine, if that were how it actually worked in the real world. I'm not defending my story. Forget my story.

I own an edition of "The Year's Best Science Fiction, Fourteenth Annual Collection" which contains 28 short stories, arguably the best of all the stories written in 1997. The writers include Gregory Benford, Mike Resnick, and Robert Silverberg. I wish I could copy the first thirteen from each of these 28 stories and post them on this board. Only a few would even begin to pass muster.

Okay, so maybe the average attention span has been dramatically shortened over the past thirteen years. Maybe publishers must use a drastically different criterion these days; something called "the hook" that has to be adhered to at all costs, before any story is worthy of being published. Except, that's not true either.

Take "The InterGalactic Medicine Show" as an example. Just go to the magazine and copy the first thirteen lines, only thirteen lines, from the beginning of each story, and see what you find.

Return to Sender, by James Maxey, begins with a girl looking out a window, a man in a brown wool habit in the room behind her. That's it.

Through the Blood, by Mette Ivie Harrison, begins with an old king facing the possibility that he is about to be killed by the new one. A little more exciting, but only a little.

Odd Jobs, by Josh Vogt, begins with a strange figure, who is "the calm before the storm", being asked questions by another unidentified character. Very clever, but not all that exciting.

Mudlarks, by Kat Otis, begins with scavenger children at a river. There is no problem addressed that needs to be solved.

Mean Spirited, by Edmund R. Schubert, begins with an old man contemplating suicide.

Please, go to the InterGalactic Medicine Show and see the truth. Check back through the archived issues.

If the first thirteen is as important as presented here, exactly the way it is being explained, and therefore is the only way anyone can ever be published, then we need to know. But if it turns out that there is a lot of straining at a gnat to swallow a camel going on, we should know that as well.

There is only one thing that I can see that all of these published stories have in common, and it isn't strict adherence to the celebrated first thirteen. It is simply brilliant writing. We should all aspire to such brilliance. But I don't see how anyone will ever be able to enter that zone of freedom in which true art is created if they are so very conscious of adhering to this false set of rules.

Don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself. See the truth, and then believe it.


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axeminister
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I have to agree with you WH.
I like the axiom: start with a character with a problem, and go from there.
Now we have to put the moment of incitement in the first 13? It's no wonder when I put forth my best 13 I end up with a summary each time.

I think slave planet and prison ship speaks for itself. We'll just have to assume as readers that the MC would not want to be there.

There's talk of revolution which is keeping the MC awake. It's not officially "happening" but are you supposed to have the MC carrying a bayonet about to strike at the oppressors in the first 13? What would come after that? I thought stories were arcs...

I do agree that being too excited to sleep then saying not much sleep is an odd contradiction, but I certainly feel there's enough to go on to keep reading, and I have a general idea what the next few pages will be about.

If you've lost me after three or four pages, fine, but I'm still interested after 13 lines.

Axe


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JSchuler
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I will just ask if the main character would really brand himself with the term "neo-militant?" It sounds like something a reporter or an academic would come up with to sound impartial. Freedom fighter, revolutionary, or even the proper name of the faction (you have revolution mentioned soon after, so we'd get the context). You might even get away with something with a more negative connotation, such as rebel, adopted as a point of pride to subvert the intent of the enemy to degrade them.

Plus, the use of "neo" bugs me, simply because it's overused in general (though if it turns out your character is, say, a sociologist or political scientist, then kudos for adopting the lingo).

Just a minor point. Overall, I like it, and you've got me wanting to read on.


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Nick T
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Hi Welsh Hammer,

For me, a story should start just before the protagonist's life changes in some significant way. You can't always fit that moment into the 1st 13, but it has to give me confidence that moment isn't far away.

Often the easiest way to get that life change underway is to present the protagonist with a problem. The problem provides motivation for the protagonist to act and that initial act drives the story.

Because you're giving me facts rather than promises of change, I don't have that confidence. There's no hint of change; either externally or internally. We’re given facts and I don’t think we need all of them to start the story.

Looking at IGMS, I believe all the listed stories have a moment of change and a problem very early.

For example:

Return to sender There is a promise here of a subtle kind; she judges Brother Antony ("He wears his otherness for everyone to see...") and it clues me there will be internal change in the protagonist. Her judgment hints at dissatisfaction and that leads to change. Perhaps I’m reading too much into it, but it’s enough to know I want to keep reading and not think “why is he telling me this?” The problem for the protagonist is one of dissatisfaction; the clear, concise language lets me wait to see how that dissatisfaction leads to change.

We get more promises outside of the first 13 (but within the first page) with "It's only inside I feel so out of place."

Having said that, this is one story where I feel the author could have entered the scene later.

Through the BloodIt's pretty clear that Haber's life is going to change. This is an inciting moment and a clear problem for Haber.


Odd jobs I wish I could get away with opening with dialog; this one works because it’s funny. Anyway, a job interview promises change in the life of the protagonist.

Mudlarks I wasn’t fond of the opening paragraph (sorry KayTi…I loved everything else), but once this gets down to it, I’ve got an interesting setting and the line “Jennet trotted down the Temple Stairs and wondered if she had mistimed her arrival” promises change. It also gives us a very small problem which sets the story off.

Mean spirited I didn’t listen to this one, but a man contemplating suicide is probably going to have his life changed and is also facing a problem.

Regards,

Nick


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tchernabyelo
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It is regularly pointed out in this forum that many published works do not adhere to the site's "formula" (which is, I think, more flexible - there are definitely people here with different opinions), and it's absolutely true. However certain things need to be taken into account in considering this. For one thing, many people sell their stories on their name. James Maxey, for example, may not be a household name but he has sold stories to IGMS before, has a couple of well-received novels out, and generally is going to get a different look from an editor than someone whose name said editor has never seen or heard before. It may be unfair, but it's true.

Advice that is given in here is generally well-meant, and in some cases it is hard-won. It is also just that: advice. It can be accepted, it can be rejected. No-one here (I hope) is saying "if you do not write the story my way, you will not be published". What people tend to say is "if you consider adding this or subtracting this, I believe you will have a better chance of being published".

Since we are talking about IGMS, here's my "first thirteen" from the one story I sold there (something, it must be noted, I have as yet failed to repeat, though I've come close).

quote:

Yi Qin came to visit Weng Hao's Grand Carnival Of Curiosities on a spring day, with the air sharp and clear. She was humbly dressed, not like an emissary of the Emperor at all, and she tok her place in line, and she handed over her quarter-teng piece. She looked at the tigers, pacing back and forth in their cages. She watched the acrobats perform, tumbling and swooping and spinning. She listened to the story-teller, and laughed when he recounted the tale of the Brave Little Fisherman and the Demon With A Thousand Teeth.
She had not come, however, to see these things. They were diversions; amusing in their way, but no more than that. No; she had come, like everyone else, to see the Box Of Beautiful Things.

Now much of this is scene-setting, simply immersing the reader in the atmosphere of the world. However two key facts are established: that the MC is an emissary of the Emperor and yet is in disguise, and that she is here for the Box Of Beautiful Things. The reader should be able to infer rapidly that she has some particular purpose in mind (perhaps her own, perhaps the Emperor's), but should not yet know what that purpose is. And the combination of setting and the hints of plot are intended to be enough to make the reader want to learn more. Even though much of the opening is setting the scene, it is also the inciting incident of the story; Yi Qin has arrived at the Carnival. The story begins precisely where it needs to begin; not, say, with the Emperor sending Yi Qin on her mission. Not with Yi Qin looking back on her visit to the Carnival. It starts when she arrives, and as it happens, it ends when she leaves.

I might well write this a little differently now (it was written in late 2005, was my first ever submission and my first ever sale), with perhaps a touch less emphasis on the setting and a touch more on the plot. Equally, though, I might not; the setting is an important component of Yi Qin stories in general, and indeed an exotic or interesting setting can be a major factor in selling a story.

By no means everything can be fitted into a first 13. I certainly have seen critiques here that ask or expect far too much, but often they do so because someone has already raised too many questions in the reader's mind, rather than too few. It is a balancing act, and like all balancing acts, everyone is going to have a different opinion on where the sweet spot is. And the only person whose opinion truly matters - the editor that buys your story - sadly isn't here. So post your pieces as you wish. Consider the critiques and dismiss them if you wish. And then write the best stories you can and submit them, again and again and again, until they sell.


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Welsh Hammer
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Axe Minister…Welsh Hammer…Could we be related…long lost cousins perhaps?

Axeminister, thanks for your post. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that that whole first 13 business only serves to induce a kind of literary constipation. You strive so hard to get so much packed into those first few lines that what you wind up with, a lot of the time, is just a load of unpublishable, um…do do. Pardon my French.

FYI, the first time, when Helio is too excited to sleep, is referring back to when he was on the planet, meeting with the neo-militants. The second time he can't sleep, it's because he is on the prison ship…except he's not really on a ship at all, but only thinks he is, which you couldn't possibly know since that comes later.

JSchuler, allow me to explain. Ahem. The term neo-militant is used simply because the boys involved were not rebels, not even revolutionaries. They were good kids who got suckered into an action they would have never considered otherwise. While I do use the term revolutionaries later on in the story, it isn't to be taken seriously. Neo-militants seemed the best fit, considering what I knew.

Nick T, howdy. I'm sorry Nick, but if being on a prison ship, bound for who knows what, after being captured on a slave planet in a failed attempt at revolution doesn't constitute a moment of change, I'm afraid I don't know what does.

In Return to Sender, if you select the first thirteen according to the instructions given, you would never get to, "It's only inside I feel so out of place."

The precise place the story stops is, "I'm dressed in a Backgammon Pizza uniform -- checkered shirt, navy pants, a cap with a bright red brim. My…"

According to the rules, that is. Copy and paste, even less if you keep in the paragraph break. It seems like it should be more, but it isn't.

As for The Mudlarks, what you're saying is, a girl possibly being late for some unknown reason promises to offer more life change than boys who are prisoners on a prison ship, one of them balling his eyes out. Sorry, I just don't get it. Thanks for the critique, though.

Tchernabyelo, ahhh, we finally get to the point. Authors who have already been published are treated differently. Also, apparently, are writers who have graduated from the publisher's boot camp. Even if they don't scramble around looking for that perfect first thirteen, but rely on good writing instead. And you're right; I'd say it isn't fair.

The Mudlarks, by Kat Otis is designated as one of (Orson Picks).

If you read her bio, you will learn that Kat Otis is a 2009 graduate of Orson Scott Card's Literary Boot Camp.

Since Kat is worthy of the honor of being published, and being designated as an (Orson Picks) recipient, and since she is a graduate of Orson Scott Card's Literary Boot Camp, one must come to the inescapable conclusion that what she has written, the way she has written it, was entirely acceptable to Mr. Card.

Not counting the brief introduction before the story begins, below is exactly thirteen lines, all that were able to fit into the posting window, as instructed.

Jennet trotted down the Temple Stairs and wondered if she had mistimed her arrival. The Thames was retreating towards the sea so most of the stone steps lay exposed to the afternoon sun, but she couldn't see any of the riverbed beyond the end of the stairs. One of the watermen - a gruff, heavy-handed man named Edward Averell - sat in his boat at the bottom of the stairs, so the river couldn't be too shallow yet.
When she reached the last of the exposed steps, she carefully slipped her right foot into the water and greeted the river. The Thames answered her, telling her everything she needed to know for her crew to safely scavenge on its riverbed. The tide would turn in two hours; at the moment the Thames ran knee-high over its riverbed for almost a rod's length from the river wall…

Life sure is funny sometimes. Here's an example: issue # 15, 2009. InterGalactic Medicine Show.

Sweet as Honey
by Bradley P. Beaulieu

All was silent as I lay in the rooftop garden above my home. I could remember neither the reason I'd come nor the duration of my stay. I couldn't, in fact, remember anything. My mind was so caught in the fugue of slumber that it seemed determined to hide the answers from me, and my body was so leaden it refused all calls to action.
I did after some effort manage to flutter my eyes open. Spread above me was a cloudy, cream-colored sky. The sigh of the Inland Sea returned soon after, and with it, the drone of my honey bees.
What a welcome sound. What a welcome sound, indeed.
Footsteps thudded toward me. A moment later Joseph Winslow was staring down at me, his woolen hat crumpled in one fist, his… (not counting paragraph breaks)

Far as I can see, there is no turning point, no moment of change that will affect the MC's life. What we have is someone so relaxed, so sleepy they can't even remember the reason they are there. A whole lot of nothing is actually happening. Yet here it is, published for all the world to see.

Is that the sound of wheels spinning?

You stated that your story began precisely where it needed to begin. Since you knew the rest of your story, you could know if that were true. Since no one here ever knows the rest of the stories, I don't know how anyone can determine for another person whether it is the precise place or not.

I do sincerely wish you luck with getting published again. You are a gifted writer. As merely an unbiased reader, your story seemed much more intriguing to me than a lot of the others. I can't believe you haven't produced something as equally well written in over four years. That makes me kind of sad, to tell the truth. And you've already been published. You're one tough cookie.

I'm not all that squishy myself. So, I'm going to post the first thirteen lines of yet another story that doesn't adhere to the rules one bit. Although, I can tell you, it does begin exactly where it should.
I do enjoy the smilies.


[This message has been edited by Welsh Hammer (edited April 19, 2010).]


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skadder
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Sounds to me like you are arguing with people who are taking the time to critique your work.

Critiquers are readers and aren't wrong--they simply have opinions you don't share. It is generally considered bad form to argue/put down people who critique your work. After all they are entitled to their opinions. Guidelines for accepting feedback are here. If you disagree with stuff generally (plenty of published stories start differently...) then post a topic in discussions and discuss, rather than going for the critiquer.

quote:
So, I'm going to post the first thirteen lines of yet another story that doesn't adhere to the rules one bit. Although, I can tell you, it does begin exactly where it should.

Why bother posting it then? This suggests you are posting for validation not for opinions.

I get the feeling that you are unused to being critiqued. Comments like 'this is the wrong place to start' etc. generally mean that there is something flawed with your beginning and the critiquer is suggesting to you what that may be. They may be wrong in their diagnosis...but your intro still didn't work for them.


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skadder
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My crit:

As prison ships went, Helio Durante figured this one wasn't half bad.
Not at all what he'd expected back at the beginning of this ill-fated adventure, while still safely ensconced in the routine drudgery of the slave planet Elysium. Talking late into the nights with the other neo-militants, exhausted, but too excited to sleep--he'd pay for it tomorrow. But talk of revolution has always been the best of uppers, or so Uncle Stephan--who was no one's uncle and everyone's--had told him, with a twinkle, then laughed and slapped his shoulder.

Not much sleep on prison ships either, Helio noted ruefully, as he listened yet again to the muffled sobs of Ivan Kovac coming from the bunk above him, as Ivan pressed his swollen face hard into his pillow and muttered incoherent longings.

1. Two adverbs in the opening. There is a trend away from adverb use and it can be seen as a sign of amateur writing to find them in any numbers. The first use (safely ensconced) is seems less intrusive than the second (ruefully) to me. Have you considered trying to write without using adverbs? The end product can feel tighter.

2.

- Talking late into the nights with the other neo-militants, exhausted, but too excited to sleep--he'd pay for it tomorrow.

For me, this doesn't work as a sentence. The first clause has a verb floating about with no-one tagged to it. The implication is that it is the same 'he' from the clause after the em-dash. It seems the wrong way round to me. Consider inserting a 'he' in the appropriate place.

3. Why tell us it is 'ill-fated'? You aren't telling us what has been ill-fated about it. In fact you state the prison ship isn't that bad, and since he's come from a slave planet it sounds like he is going up the world, perhaps.

4. ...Helio noted ruefully, as he listened yet again to the muffled sobs of Ivan Kovac coming from the bunk above him, as Ivan pressed his swollen face hard into his pillow and muttered incoherent longings.

-...yet again--First time for us. My opinion is that unless the readers have been shown this already consider avoiding this structure. I think there are better ways of doing this.

-muffled sobs BECOMES muttered incoherent longings. Seems redundant. I think you only need one of them.

-swollen face hard.

How does the guy in the bunk below know he presses it hard or in fact that Ivan has a swollen face? Coupled with the sobs, the swollen face seems the result of crying (unless he was assaulted but it is assumptive for your MC to assume it is so.

I found the prose to be okay, but I wouldn't read on. The subject matter (slave planets--prison ships--neo-militants) seems a little cliche and doesn't interest me in the same way as vampires (also cliche) might. I think the prose could be improved--the first paragraph is barely camouflaged summary. I find summaries off-putting.

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited April 19, 2010).]


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Welsh Hammer
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Thanks for the advice.
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Merlion-Emrys
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WelshHammer, if your still out there...my experiences are somewhat similar to yours. I get what your feeling, although you may be coming on a bit strong. If your interested in further discussion of some of this stuff, feel free to email me.
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