posted
I ran across this word in several submission guidelines, but I haven't got a clue what it is. Does anyone know?
Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Not much of one, or I'd do a better internet search myself. It's a typoe of story, a genre. In a guidelines it might say something like, "We accept scifi, fantasy, horror, and slipstream."
Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003
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posted
I found this statement on a website after a quick search (by the way, the term is new to me, too). Hopefully it puts into some sort of context for you:
quote:SLIPSTREAM: I want stories that paint pictures of reality, but twist those pictures into bizarre tableaux. Think along the lines of how peoples' views of reality and the events that constitute that reality can be very different.
Instead, this is a kind of writing which simply makes you feel very strange; the way that living in the late twentieth century makes you feel, if you are a person of a certain sensibility. We could call this kind of fiction Novels of Postmodern Sensibility, but that looks pretty bad on a category rack, and requires an acronym besides; so for the sake of convenience and argument, we will call these books "slipstream."
"Slipstream" is not all that catchy a term, and if this young genre ever becomes an actual category I doubt it will use that name, which I just coined along with my friend Richard Dorsett. "Slipstream" is a parody of "mainstream," and nobody calls mainstream "mainstream" except for us skiffy trolls.
Nor is it at all likely that slipstream will actually become a full-fledged genre, much less a commercially successful category. The odds against it are stiff. Slipstream authors must work outside the cozy infrastructure of genre magazines, specialized genre criticism, and the authorial esprit-de-corps of a common genre cause.
And vast dim marketing forces militate against the commercial success of slipstream. It is very difficult for these books to reach or build their own native audience, because they are needles in a vast moldering haystack. There is no convenient way for would-be slipstream readers to move naturally from one such work to another of its ilk. These books vanish like drops of ink in a bucket of drool.
posted
Oh my goodness, that's quite the explaination. I read slipstream and automatically think of a mode of transportation from Andromeda, the TV show.
From what HSO wrote, it makes sense that slipstream would be like slipping out of the mainstream or slipping between streams of spec fic. Something simillar to cross-genre only stranger.
posted
Wouldn't that be similar to many of the twilight zone type shows? I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around some of these descriptions.
Posts: 497 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I'm still not quite sure what a "slipstream" work is, either, goatboy. But if it's Twilight Zone type material, then that might describe a few short stories I've done, for which I never could figure out a proper category!
Think I'll write to some mag that solicits slipstream and ask for a definitive example/explanation. Or even invite an editor here to explain it to us!
posted
It sounds like some of the twilight zone stuff to me. Just generally effed up stuff that doesn't really fit anywhere else. I'm thinking melted clocks hanging on trees (has anybody else seen that image, I'm not sure where it's from, I think it's a pretty famous painting).
posted
Indeed, those are famous paintings. Salvador Dali, I believe. Went to Spain last May, visited the Dali Museum in Figueras, had a great time and more olives in two weeks than I've eaten in my whole life. Fascinating stuff -- Dali. Some of it was just out-there, though.
Note: I didn't write the above explanation of slipstream... I just copied and pasted it from the linked article.
I read that the movie "Being John Malkovich" is a more current example of pure slipstream.
Kind of a tilt-your-head, just-slightly-off kind of story. Maybe with a "huh" moment or three!
Another quote, from fictionfactor.com: "When genres -- horror, fantasy, science, and speculative fiction -- start slipping into one another the Brits call it (appropriately) 'slipstream.'"
Seems hard to define. Maybe if what you write is hard to define, not quite cross-genre, you've written slipstream.
EDIT: Bruce Sterling coined the phrase, btw, so that may be the best you can get!
[This message has been edited by punahougirl84 (edited August 09, 2004).]
posted
Wow. That actually sounds like almost everything I write. I'm constantly saying, "One of these days I'm going to write a story that fits into one genre so I'll know where to send it."
posted
punahougirl: The article I linked to was, I think, Bruce's. Though that may not be clear from reading the post.
Posts: 1520 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
HSO - yup, that is why I mentioned it - people were amazed at the quote you posted, and I thought I would add why that was THE bit to quote!
Posts: 465 | Registered: Aug 2003
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"Slipstream: This genre is difficult to define, so it's safe to say that if you don't know what it is, but know it's speculative fiction, it's slipstream. Stories that cross genres, sociological science fiction, alternative history, and magical realism all fit within the slipstream genre."
posted
One novel that's often pointed to as a successful example of slipstream is Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman. It can't quite be categorized as magic realism, science fiction, dark fantasy or horror, but contains elements of all. The thing about slipstream is that it is a genre category for stories that can't be strictly defined. I kind of like the concept -- it's very liberating -- but I believe the marketing is much tougher. There's no space on the bookshelf reserved for Slipstream...at least not yet.
Posts: 338 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Has anybody here read the Dark Tower Series? Would that be slipstream? It's by Stephen King but it definitely isn't horror, but at the same time it's not just normal fantasy. I think that if those books constitute slipstream then it will indeed begin to grow in popularity. The reason is that while the public appetite for speculative fiction is growing, many of the standard genres are either tired or beginning to feel that way. Slipstream (if my understanding of the definition is right) allows authors to pick and choose their favorite elements and combine them into a fresh story. This is all imho of course.
posted
To the best of my knowledge, a good many "slipstream" shorts are included in SF anthologies. I can think of a few dozen stories that would qualify that I've read in various collections.
I guess there's just not a better place to put them and SF has always been a little more easy-going than other genres.
posted
I think the Dark Tower series started off Fantasy, then became parallel world fantasy and has taken a turn for the Twilight Zone... sorry, into slipstream. I also think its now turning into something else since Song of Susannah. When I was in college we called it Metafiction - fiction that takes itself beyond its fictional world(s). Or to quote Bartleby.com
quote: Fiction that deals, often playfully and self-referentially, with the writing of fiction or its conventions.
Think John Barth or Kurt Vonnegut.
The Dark Tower a very interesting read all the same. I love it. My husband is finding it very disturbing, but is also loving it. It also reads so smoothly its like drinking chocolate.
R
[This message has been edited by RFLong (edited August 10, 2004).]
posted
Okay... forgive me for saying this, but if someone goes out of their way to look up something to help you understand something, a thank you wouldn't hurt. 'Tis only polite, after all.
posted
Not you, Goatboy. Your thanks are not necessary, but warmly appreciated nonetheless. In this case, I was addressing the topic creator.
Indeed, it was a pleasure looking this up, because not only could I help shed some light on it, but I also learned something from it. Could life be any better? Maybe.
posted
I think that alot of the stuff I see posted here at Hatrack could probably fit into the Slipstream category. Maybe this(slipstream) will be a viable genre, and we are the front line. New ideas bring change, and change is good (mostly). It hurts to be on the cutting edge -- doesn't it. Posts: 471 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Goatboy, since you've already thanked me (bless your kind soul), there's no need to do so again. As a simple token of my gratitude, I offer you this article I discovered after exactly 25 seconds of searching:
It is my sincerest wish, sir, that this article (and its first paragraph) will answer your question most satisfactorily. If it does not, I shall be forced to prostrate myself and beg for your most generous forgiveness.
Ever in your debt,
HSO
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited August 10, 2004).]
posted
I wish that were so Mary, but it's not the case. While she may not have revisted this particular topic, she did in fact visit hatrack today and posted in the swearing topic.
I contend she did see this topic and neglected to thank me for my considerable efforts.
Should I care? No. Do I really care if she thanks me. No. Am I making a point here? Yes. Anyone care to venture a guess as to what that may be?
[This message has been edited by HSO (edited August 10, 2004).]
Usually my self-editing stops me before I post snippy replies, but not that time.
Christine has been on this forum for quite some time, and has put a lot of effort into answering people's questions. I've never seen her complain that someone didn't thank her for her efforts.
She's earned a lot of good will from the people here, and I don't think you have anything to gain by continuing to draw attention to the issue of whether she has given you the thanks you feel you deserve. I suggest you drop the subject.
posted
Now, now, wetwilly. A stick up the rear would mean that HSO is a rod puppet and, as a professional puppeteer, I can tell you that's just not so. He is simply not that easy to manipulate.
I can only speak for myself, but if I posted a question I would certainly be *thinking* thank you to anyone that answered it, but I might not post it just because I hate frivilous posts that essentially say nothing but take up space and everyone's valuable reading time. Just imagine if we posted a "thanks" every single time any person gave us feedback, answered a question, made a suggestion, posted something of interest to us, etc. At least half the posts would be nothing more than "Gee, thanks!!" and the bulletin boards would be boring indeed!
HSO, I'm sure Christine is grateful to any and all contributions to her knowledge, as am I! (that's an official thank you, dear fellow. *G*)
Now everyone shake hands, group hug and all that stuff, and let's get back to positive contributions!
Oh, btw.. thanks also to Christine for bringing this to our attention. I certainly have learned from it!
Susan
[This message has been edited by shadowynd (edited August 10, 2004).]
posted
MaryRobinette, I am SO glad you qualified that! Puppeteer jokes! What else goes on backstage? No, not here, save it for an email. Please.
quote:Magical realism:
A chiefly literary style or genre originating in Latin America that combines fantastic or dreamlike elements with realism
"Cien años de Soledad", by Gabriel García Márquez is a good example. It has been well translated into English, as "One Hundred Years of Solitude", with one of the better opening lines I have read.
quote:"Many years later, as he faced the firing squad, Colonel Aureliano Buendía was to remember that distant afternoon when his father took him to discover ice."
If you're interested in magical realism, you might wish to read it. A dilapidated paperback edition can be bought from Amazon for as little as $1.04! Plus shipping. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060929790/002-8244283-6821665?v=glance
[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited August 10, 2004).]
posted
I must say: I didn't expect a minor flame war to erupt. Hey-ho.
I've not had a great day, so I apologize for having a stick up my ass... wetwilly, thanks for letting me borrow your stick. Hit the spot and I'm much grateful.
Eric... should it matter how long someone has been on a particular forum, or how well respected they are? Manners are manners after all. Of course, I wouldn't have brought it up in the first place if I had noticed a trend -- a particular problem or issue... anyway...
Notwithstanding, I'm quite sure that Christine is a lovely person and wish her no particular ill will-- we all forget our manners at times; I'm guilty of this more often than I'd care to admit.
Now that I'm relatively stick-free, I'll get back to the very important business of not giving a flying "flamboozle" what anyone else thinks.
Oh, and Eric, that "and noted" part had more to do with your comment about Survivor in the post you deleted. Just wanted to make sure that was clear in case there was any potential for misunderstanding.
posted
I’m still not sure I’m grasping this magic realism thing. In trying to find something to compare it to, would Stephen King’s “The Stand” fit in this realm? How about Dickens’ “A christmas Carol?” They seem to me to be written in a reasonably realistic way as far as portraying everyday life, and yet have elements of the fantastic. (Not necessarily magic elements, just fantastic ones, according to the posted definitions.) Posts: 497 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Mmm... I think I have to disagree with your definition of magical realism. It's stories that are straight-ahead tales told as if they are fairytales. "Like Water for Chocolate" is a good example. Pretty much anything by Gabriel Garcias Marquez, he pretty much defined the genre (though the phrase was coined earlier). Lots of Kafka.
Buffy, Highlander etc. would be more in the dark urban fantasy vein.
posted
In more mainstream film terms try "Chocolat" for magical realism.
("Like Water for Chocolate" made me think of it, Mary.)
Its actually a really hard one to define, because I think its a perculiarly "literary" genre that doesn't translate well into tv/film. Possibly something like "American Gothic" (if anyone else remembers that), or even the dreaded "Twin Peaks" (although I hesitate at that).
posted
HSO, no problem, you can borrow my stick any time you want. Just make sure you wash it off before you give it back. Posts: 1528 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
No HSO, I don't want to see you prostate, I'm just trying to wrap my foggy old brain around some of these concepts. and I do appreciate the discussion. I think this quote from Mary's link workled the best for me.
quote:If a magazine editor these days asks for contributions that are magical realism, what she's really saying is that she wants contemporary fantasy written to a high literary standard---fantasy that readers who "don't read escapist literature" will happily read. It's a marketing label and an attempt to carve out a part of the prestige readership for speculative works.
Basically, the current definition appears to be very well written fantasy. A "Literary" work.
posted
So does "Big Fish" fit in this genre? Or is it just fantastical in nature? I'm jus' tryin' to figger 'dis out too.
Posts: 471 | Registered: Sep 2003
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No. I don't agree. Go read Snow White, then go read One Hundred Years of Solitude. Then compare the two beauties in the stories, and how they are presented to you.
This may be grossly stereotypical, but here is what I think the difference is:
- In fantasy, the writer presents a set of magical rules wherein the characters work and play. Hopefully, he or she does it well enough that the reader understands the rules, and buys into them. Then, of course, the writer must work within the rules to deliver the story, or the reader understandably feels cheated.
- On the other hand, the magical reality author may present a similar scenario/sequence of events, but in a bit of an offhand manner, and does NOT prepare and deliver a set of rules to the reader so that the reader can reasonably forecast the outcome. If the reader expected fantasy, they might well feel cheated, but if the author never made that social contract with the reader in the first place (the way we do in fantasy) then he shouldn't. He may feel a bit dislocated, but then, that's magical realism!
So, I think I've thoroughly confused myself, and perhaps someone would step in to clarify what I think I'm saying? Or correct me?
G'night.
[edited to correct my abominable typing]
[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited August 10, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by mikemunsil (edited August 10, 2004).]
I don't think you quite have it (or else I don't) but Magical Realism isn't Fantasy per se. Its more about a heightened sense of reality portrayed in a fairytale or magical way. Its not set in the real world but it isn't what you'd call traditional fantasy either. Perhaps its fantasy that breaks its own rules?
There is a long list of films he feels fall into the category, including Big Fish, Like Water for Chocolate, Amelie, Chocolat, What Dreams May Come and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
Also articles, author lists etc - probably everything you could want to know about it.
The other alternative is that its literary fantasy for snobs who wouldn't admit to reading/writing sf/f - Oryx & Crake anyone?
posted
If you read the whole article that I posted a link to, the section that goatboy pulled out is what the author says editors want, he then goes on to say that it's different from what magical realism is.
I think "Big Fish" could fit that genre, because it is a fantasic representation of events that are supposed to be real. The final scene in the graveyard, where we see the people that the father has described and learn that he only exagerated the events.
Magical realism typically has incredibaly beautiful language, and it also finds miracles in real life. Coincidences take on magical significance. Rather than using a metaphor, the allusions are real i.e. when someone is shot their blood actually does run through the streets looking for aid.
As Ruth said, "Amelie" is a beautiful recent example.
posted
In the same vein (uh...I think) what is "Sword and Sorcery"? I've read magazine descriptions in Writer's Market that say they'll accept some fantasy but not "sword and sorcery". Is this a Tolkien-eque "fight to defeat evil" thing, or what? Because I have a few short fantasy stories that have some sword fighting, and some sorcery, but neither of the two are thesole center of the stories.
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