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Author Topic: Stereoplaneting
philocinemas
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I have a little global peeve. Every book I have read, or heard on audio, that introduces alien planets, treats them as if there was only one city or language on the entire world. Every story that I have read dealing with multiple planets does this. They don't even recognize diverse countries or environments. Has anyone else noticed this inconsistency?
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arriki
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Yes. In some ways, it might even be true. Once you have a one world government, instant communications, and major corporations it probably becomes the same. The USA is a lot less regional than it was when I was a kid.

San Antonio resembles Los Angeles resembles Dallas resembled NY -- same chain stories selling the same chinese-made goods.

On "my" worlds it isn't like that at all.


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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I consider it a "space fantasy" thing. Remember the "ice planet, Hoth" and the "swamp planet, Dagobah" and the "desert planet, Tattooine" with all of their single ecosystems? Hoth and Tattooine, at least, certainly wouldn't have been able to sustain much of an atmosphere without plant life (even if they had out-gassing), so they're basically fantasy worlds.
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philocinemas
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Arriki,

I will concede the language issue. Ultimately, one language will most likely obtain global dominance given enough time (with second languages spoken within smaller cultural and religious circles). However, my biggest gripe is with these stories seeing one city and environment as representative of the entire planet.

It would be incomprehensible, in my mind, for Earth to ever be represented by one city, nevertheless one country. I know all the movies focus on the US, especially NYC and LA, but ultimately space will be an international affair. I do not forsee the nations of Earth ever coming under the sole sovereignty of one government. Is it possible? - yes, but not very probable.

Regardless of this, it would be geographically impossible for there to be one city or environment. If the rest of the world was destroyed, it is certain the sole surviving city would not last very long.


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Cheyne
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I think an exception to your exception would be a world only recently colonized. It would be possible to have a single culture and city if the civilization is not from that world.
But I agree it is somewhat annoying to have a race evolve with no regional or linguistic/culturaldifferences (though I have ignored the problem when the story was good).

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KayTi
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Ooh - time for a recommendation! Have you read the Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin?

It's a dense book, in my opinion (lots of alien cultural details to try to pick up in the early pages, and odd-sounding names) but really excellent about multiple cultures represented on the same planet.


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Robert Nowall
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Sometimes there's the notion that a planet was colonized (presumably by humans) and spread out over the surface with the aid of relatively modern technology and remained a relatively homogenous group.

Reasoning from history: The United States is a less linguistically diverse area than England, even though England colonized the United States and some elements of their linguistic diversion imprinted it on the country. (For the sake of a simplistic argument, this excludes the Indians and the non-English immigrants, but you get the general idea.)

I'm a little dubious of the notion...I figure humans being humans, they'll evolve into contentious groups, any number of 'em, and colonize different areas. I try to work in a little variety myself whenever possible.

Of course there are aliens to worry about. Probably to an alien, the difference between one group of humans and another doesn't amount to much---at least in the alien's eyes. And vice versa.


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MartinV
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I think that's because the people who are in worldbuilding are lazy.
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aspirit
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First Thought: If your story is about people who can all speak the same language or live in the same city, how much time would you spend telling readers about the other languages, cities, or environments on that planet? Why would you bother at all? To satisfy nitpickers who wouldn't care enough about your story to focus on the meaning you intended? By adding in frivolous information, you might distract from the plot or frustrate the readers who would care.

When I travel to a location I hadn't been before, I don't tell my friends on my return about what didn't matter to me. ("When I was in Kansas City--where some people speak Spanish, I'm guessing--I tried Korean food for the first time.")

Obviously, if the main point of the story is the exploration of a planet covered in an alien people, then the author better come up with enough diversity to satisfy modern readers. Otherwise, the story wouldn't be worth publishing (IMO).

Second Thought (and I know this has been mentioned): If a people existed long on one planet, through war, politics, or even biological necessity, one language or one culture might take over all others. The people might connect all cities until they are one. (OSC is one author who's addressed this; remember Capital?) Going into the history of the planet or exposing the environments the POV character(s) don't see (because those environments are hidden by the borders of a single city) or don't care about might distract from the story, depending on the premise.

Third Thought (and possibly the least believable): If a planet had only one location for space launches and landings, people of other worlds may learn only of the culture surrounding that planet's space operations base. The government(s) of the planet might refuse to build multiple space bases as a means of containment, to give power to one city (maybe the capital), or because only that city can afford the base.

In this case, I would expect the author to provide a quick mention, along the lines of "Kerfrag aimed for the planet's sole space center." A reader or listener might miss the mention, but it would be there.


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MartinV
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If a people existed long on one planet, through war, politics, or even biological necessity, one language or one culture might take over all others.

It might, but I find this to be just another excuse to be lazy when building cultures. Globalization cannot work indefinitely. All empires crumble eventually, even those based on culture and/or language.


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tchernabyelo
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All empires have crumbled historically, but that could perhaps be because there is something "outside" the empire to topple and/or replace it. If thre really was a single pervasive culture, what would cause it to topple? Where would the "opposition" arise? Even in historical cultures, those who have oppoed from "within" have done so with models available of external alternatives.

I've never liked the (usually fantasy rather than SF) timelines where a single empire lasts seemingly indeinitely without technological or cultural advanacement (or even change), but it probably is plausible that a genuinely universal culture might become static rather than dynamic.

Which lays open the idea of what happens when such a culture discovers it isn't alone after all... which is a classic SF trope, after all...


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MartinV
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All empires have crumbled historically, but that could perhaps be because there is something "outside" the empire to topple and/or replace it. If thre really was a single pervasive culture, what would cause it to topple? Where would the "opposition" arise?

How about internal corruption? The way I see it, the outside forces didn't destroy empires but only picked its carcass. The real death came when individual leaders believed they could do a better job and each ripped his own part away. Think of the Diadochi, the roman Tetrarchs. Decay came from within. Why? Because they were unified? I don't think so.

Unification is good until you have an outside enemy. When those run out, the so called allies turn against each-other. Members of later NATO and Warshaw Pact were allies against Germans and Japanese until they were there. When they were defeated, the needed a different villain to fight.


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philocinemas
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I would argue that there are two types of societies - collective and individualistic.

A collective society is like an insect colony where there seems to be very little, if any, free will. Decisions are based more on genetics and chemical messages.

An individualistic society, by nature, is dynamic. Animals in these societies have constant challenges for power. I would argue that humanity falls in this category. No matter how long we are on this Earth or in space, we will always have challenges for power. These can arise from outside or within. The one thing that is for certain is that as long as there is free will (or at least the perception of free will) there will always be vies for power and control.


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micmcd
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That's always been a pet peev of mine as well. While I agree that there will be dominating cultures on a human planet, even a colonized one, I have a hard time believing any place having universal culture, language, or monetary unit. A colonized location won't have the linguistic diversity of, say, present day Earth, but a handful of dialects even are more likely. Even with our future, where some have rather hopefully predicted English will become a "universal" language, there will be holdouts. Do you really see Chinese going away? There are a whole lot of people speaking only that language. And then there are holdouts like French, where in France they have an academy dedicated to the preservation of their language, and in particular they try to keep out English influences.

For example, despite the fact that it was common parlance for a while, they wouldn't let people call a computer "le computer;" they needed something more native to French, and so it became "l'ordinateur."

Even if a lot of people end up speaking English on Earth, I doubt if I can ever see anything close to 100% coverage -- 50% would be a miracle. I do see languages dying out, and only a handful remaining other than in tribal areas.

Similarly, in colonized worlds, people will break off. If you have a whole planet over which to spread out, a small population going off to the other side of the world for a few centuries would likely develop a language that is difficult for the original population to understand. It would similarly be difficult for the colonizers to understand the colonies after a while. I have a hard enough time figuring out what an Englishman with a sufficiently strong accent is saying. Does anyone here speak fluent Boston?


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jayazman
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Regarding the colonization arguement. On a colonized planet, even with todays technology, there would be no reason for the colonies to be out of touch with each other, thereby eliminating most of the evolution of individual dialects. There would be some of course, in-jokes would emerge and specific happenings and people would gain noteriety in specific places, otherwise the language, and I dare say, society would remain largely homogenous. The only exception would be if a group went off on their own and purposefully did not interact with other groups (which has also happened throughout history).
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skadder
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Isn't stereoplaneting something to do with wiring up the magnetic cores of two planets in a solar system. Then ramping up the amps and pumping out some serious tectonic bass tunes?

[This message has been edited by skadder (edited November 11, 2008).]


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Zero
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That does sound like more fun.
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rstegman
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In my story ideas, which are not complete stories, I reguilarly have colonists of one persuasion, no differences, such as one religious group, and they arrive on a planet with one continent and they grow from a central, optimal, colony site to the rest of the continent. I think of Austrialia for that example where other than the aboriginies, everybody is fairly common.

Until fairly recently, America was a place where one HAD to learn English just to do business, as everybody before them spoke English. Parents did not even want their children to speak their native language so they would have a chance to survive, to thrive where they suffered. People arrived and melted in and became American, a melting pot.

A society where "basic" was the common language, and it was the laguage of business, other than fairly new visitors, everybody would have learn the language or starve to death.
Really, the only time you have real differences in culture, is when people don't mingle, they don't travel, when they are allowed to differenciate themselves.


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philocinemas
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I know we are talking about science fiction, and in that since we are dealing with ideals. However, I imagine that our first ventures to another world, Mars most likely first and then to one of the moons around Jupiter or Saturn, will be out of necessity. I do not believe we will be sending colonizers directly to other planets until we can control gravity and warp space (a-la Star Trek). An exception to this may be some catastrophic event to our sun or Earth or communication with an alien civilization.

Now, when we are able to warp space and send people off to other solar systems with a fair amount of ease, who will go? Will they all be scientists? At first, yes.

Let's assume we get into terrafarming (that way we don't have to deal with indigenous plants, animals, and bacteria!!!). After the scientists get the planet ready, who will then go?

I would propose that it will be people as diverse as the groups who settled the americas 500 years ago. Unless someone invents some kind of mind control, there will develop factions and differences and quarrels and separation, etc.


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philocinemas
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May I add that history has taught us that all wars start due to three things: Land, religion, and power (money).

I believe those three things will continue to divide humanity far, far into our future.


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TaleSpinner
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I don't think that history teaches us that the future will be the same as the past.

If it did, we would still fight with swords over issues instead of debating. In the Western world democracy is only a few hundred years old and the British parliament symbolises how democracy ended armed conflict within our Nation with lines between the two debating sides that are two swords-lengths apart. Women got votes only a few decades ago and America finds itself surprised it has elected a black President, something that until very recently was predicted by many as impossible.

The mission of the United Nations, founded after the second world war, is to avoid world wars. While it's not very successful at stopping armed conflict between and within nations, it's surely better to have a global talking forum than not, because ultimately conflicts are resolved through dialogue. If we continue to develop the UN in accordance with its mission and without the corruption and insincerity, is there no chance that, as democracy has transformed many nations over the last couple of hundred years, Earth will be more united in a century or two?

One lesson from the United States is that individually ruled territories--States--are more powerful when they work together towards common goals. That was one of the inspirations for the formation of the European Union in an increasingly competitive global economy.

The internet increases mutual understanding amongst nations and individuals. As it becomes stronger, with satellite and wireless links and ever cheaper access, repressive regimes will find it harder and harder to rule by restricting information.

Climate change, scarce oil, hunger and bird flu will bring nations together into larger and larger blocs which will either fight or, I hope, unite to fight common global enemies.

I see no reason to believe Roddenberry's harmonious future Earth is impossible to achieve, and we've always achieved betterment by striving for dreams.

So I think stereoplanets are a plausible idea--and they avoid the difficulties of familiarizing readers with several worlds each comprising several nations which each comprise many factions which speak their own languages that have to be learned or translated ...

Cheers,
Pat


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philocinemas
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Believe me, I would love for Roddenberry's dream to become a reality. Unfortunately, even the fictional Federation wasn't fully united.

Contact with an alien civilization could possibly unite humanity if they became our enemies. But if they were friendly, I bet it would divide us (more Alien Nation than First Contact). I see the conflicts with various ideological religions alone as being a great problem. I'm not saying any of these religions are necessarily bad or have bad people, but alien contact could severely threaten the core tenants of many religions and put people at odds with aliens and each other. I believe this represents about 2/3 of the Earth minus Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, and a small assortment of others.
I foresee governments, and military organizations in particular, as being extremely hesitant to trust in an alien encounter. I don't believe this is simply the fodder of sci-fi movies; I believe it is truly a concern and in many ways justified.

I know, I know - who brought up aliens? I bring this up partially as an example of how diverse we really are, and how divided. I do not believe 2/3 of Earthlings would fear or dislike the aliens; but I do believe it would become a highly dividing issue.

Let's move on to terraforming (this is where I believe our distant future lies - preexisting bacteria will most likely be deadly to us, making meeting aliens face-to-face very challenging, at least at first).

We will need to create a pseudo-military organization that manages colonies in space, like the UFP. My reasoning for thinking that factions will develop is based on matters of representation. It took 200 years for North Americans to fully resent the British government. There was not a lack of communication, the British were already there. The subjects were, in essence, British. However, they had become self-sufficient and felt they weren't getting anything out of the deal. It was give, give, give, and get nothing in return that they couldn't do for themselves. Once a civilization is established they will want to govern themselves and become autonomous. This creates tension.

Say that the UHP is very liberal and allows self-governing from the very beginning. I would tend to believe that people will at first become very planet-centered and differences would evolve from that point. Both scenarios end with planeteers becoming mostly autonomous and differentiated.

We end with people on a planet with free land everywhere. At first they are all living in a single settlement. However, the prospect of free realestate (beautiful oceanfronts, majestic mountain ranges, etc.) drives people out on their own, especially if distance transportation becomes easier. Slowly they get neighbors and industry, and local government. Now you essentially have the same situation as you did with the UHP and the planets at the very beginning. The cycle continues.


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satate
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I think the discussion on differences is rather relative. Everyplace has differences, neighborhoods differ from each other, the individual households in the neighborhoods, even the individual people in each household differ from each other. If I traveled to China I probably wouldn't notice the different sub-sets in their culture. To me, and outsider, it would seem homogenous. In my own state I can easily recognize different cultures. We are more globalized, but we still keep our differences. In a story whether you focused on similarities or differences would depend on each plot, POV, and hundreds of other factors. Could a world ever be governed by one nation? I think it's possible.
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MartinV
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Governed? Yes. Ruled? Never.
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