posted
I don't mind first person, really I don't. I actually sort of like it; as if I'm riding invisibly on the POV character's shoulder or in his/her head. It is a deeply personal POV and can be great way to build a connection with a reader.
But when it is first-person POV combined with present tense, it just seems to grate on my every nerve.
As a sort of research thing, I've started reading White Wolf's first Vampire: Requiem novel, A Hunger like Fire, by Greg Stolze. The entire book is in first-person, present and it is driving me nuts!!!
So what are your opinions on this opening and on first-person/present in general?
quote:I open my eyes and I think, What the hell?
I'm wrapped in plastic. Crinkly thick stuff, smells kind of like paint.
Looking left and right, nothing hurts, so I try turning myhead. It's all right. Stomach feels okay. So I must've slept right through the hangover. Haven't done that in a while.
I move and my wrapping isn't too tight -- I can get it off my face without a lot of trouble. It's a drop cloth, and I get my head and shoulders free.
I'm in a basement, I think. It's dark, and it feels like I'm in a small space. Everything's dusty, and there's a little light coming in from under the door.
Man. I must have realy tied one on last night. Nina's gonna be pissed.
posted
I cringed when I saw your post. In the story I'm working on, I use mostly first person, present tense. Only the very beginning uses past tense.
That said, in the example you've provided, I think 3PLO in past tense would work better, but it might also take the "artsy edge" off.
I think that the biggest problem with this excerpt is that it's too distant. I really wish the writer had gotten inside his/her's characters head instead of just listing what's happening. That's the beauty of first person, no matter what tense you use.
If s/he'd shown more of what the character was thinking as the char went through all his observations, I don't think present tense would be that much of a problem.
posted
In my opinion, 99% of the time when a writer uses first present, it is for no other reason than to make them look/feel like an artiste (the kind with the extra "e" on the end). I say anything goes if you have a good reason, but I have yet to read a 1st present story that I thought was helped by being in 1st present.
Posts: 1528 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
First person present is useful and it can be enjoyable, but it is difficult to do well. This particular example just really bugged me. Perhaps it's as Keeley said, too distant and impersonal.
The only reason I can see for this author writing this way, is because the story is based on a role playing game and first-person, itemized actions are common in RPG play.
i.e. I jump up and ninja kick my opponent. <roll dice to see if successful>...
posted
I can see someone choosing that, but the Forgotten Realms novels that Wizards of the Coast puts out are either in 3PO or 3PLO. Then again, maybe the only reason they use that POV is because Tolkien used third person. If Tolkien had written in first person, fantasy (RPG's and novels) might have evolved differently.
Posts: 836 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
i've always thought past tense sounded the more artsy... maybe i'm just odd.
anyways, i'm with everyone else, the above stuff is absolute drivel, and is more 3PLO with I and me and other first person words put in place of third person words... and even then, it's not a "story" as much as a list of actions... stories have thought, if they don't, they suck.
The "and I think" is totally superfluous, and is a strong indication that this was probably written in third person originally, and translated (it's not required in 3PL either, but it's more likely to be written in that POV).
As for the present tense: it's almost always a mistake, whether first or third person, but in certain short stories it can be pulled off. A novel, even when it's done expertly, would always be better in past tense.
In general terms, however, first person present bothers me less that third person present. First person present I can read as a sort of stream-of-consciousness, which does give it a possible advantage over first person past (though at a cost, as well). 3rd person present is totally pointless.
posted
I have never liked first person, present tense either. I mean, it sounds like they are walking around with a notebook writing down everything that happens, and that just has never made sense to me. Posts: 179 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
first person can be quite fun when done competently... but present tense is just a retarded gimmick... well, a few stranded THOUGHTS might be able to be put in present tense... but let's not get into that mess
Posts: 477 | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
I actually have read a first-person present tense story that worked: The Rainmaker by John Grisham. I think there's an exception to everything, but mostly, I agree that first-person is best kept in the past tense.
[This message has been edited by Ray (edited March 26, 2005).]
posted
Hi R.H. ---1st person present tense does work for some authors, not many but a few seem to pull it off. Mickey Splain series (not sure if that’s spelled right) but it was a hard boiled private eye series that came out eons ago, probably about the sixties. I The Jury, Vengeance Is Mine, to name a couple, that were very well done. I have tried it myself and always thought it was so restrictive, as to make it not worth the effort, than again that’s just me. I stick to pretty much third person present, because it seems to work best for me. 1ST person present is a good read when done properly, but its one hell of a hard write for this old puppy. Talk to you soon---ablelaz. Posts: 19 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I have to disagree with those who think that the first person present is always a mistake, or that it's "artsy". Here's how I came to that conclusion:
I read this thread a couple of days ago and didn't think much about it. But... as a beginning writer I'm just developing story and character ideas, and I'm trying to improve my writing abilities by writing short fragments - dramatic scenes, dialogues, description, etc. Today I thought about writing a little vignette (300-500 words) on what it feels like to make a military parachute jump. I started thinking something like this:
"We're sitting on a fold-down bench made of canvas over an aluminum frame. Sweat trickles from under my helmet liner and runs down my face. I concentrate on centering myself and keeping my center low in my abdomen, but a sick, hollow feeling fills my stomach, so I just force myself to keep my breathing deep and regular. The plane is bucking and roaring - it's like being inside a boxcar on a very bumpy track. I couldn't understand the trooper next to me if he was shouting in my ear - that's why we use hand signals."
Well, I know the writing's crappy, but that's why I want to try the exercise. I just wrote that down to illustrate my point, and that is that the first person present feels very natural for this exercise - I chose that viewpoint and tense without really thinking about it. On reflection, I think it's because that way is more _immediate_. Try changing to past tense and I think you'll agree that the past tense is weaker, more removed.
On the other hand, I think it would be difficult to write a whole story in present tense, let alone a novel. Maybe it's that present tense can be natural for a brief period of time, but doesn't seem right as time passes between scenes.
posted
I disagree that present tense--either first or third person--is more immediate than past tense. However, I DO agree that it is appropriate for describing moments of time. For example, you would always describe a painting in present tense. Why? Because nothing changes. (This is not to say that nothing is happening--rather that it IS happening, but it never happens.)
The problem with present tense for stories is that it gives that sense of timelessness, rather than of passing time. In present tense, EVERYTHING is at the same time--NOW. Whereas in past tense, time can still progress. The timelessness of present tense gives it a sort of dream-like quality, which is why I say that it lacks immediacy. But in a description of a moment, it's perfectly appropriate. Put it into past tense, and it stops being a moment and becomes a story.
posted
It's neat to see that this thread is still provoking thought and dialogue. Yay!
I've been following the recent comments but couldn't think of anything to say in response . But now I have...sort of...
I finally did finish reading the novel that inspired this thread, and while the story was good, the use of First and Present tense kept jarring me all the way through. It would have been far more effective if it had been in past tense. The first person narrators were actually pretty good with the exception of the tense.
Having had some time to think about WHY ON EARTH this author would chose to write this way, I had a revelation:
The book is based on a role playing game (RPG), and RPGs are played using present tense. When the story-teller or game master or whatever-you-want-to-call-him, leads players through the story, it is always (in my experience) in present tense. i.e. You see this, what do you do? This happens, how do you resond? etc., etc.
Believe it or not, this book was (for the most part) highly recommended by readers on an RPG website -- people used to experiencing stories in a present tense. If that is the case then perhaps this author did the right thing for his audience. If he had been writing for a different demographic, perhaps he would have chosen a different tense.
I like stories that are well-written and engaging, regardless of narrator, POV, or tense. However, imo, present tense (especially with a first-person narrattor) is difficult to write and even more difficult to write well. Often the story is stronger and more accessible if it is delivered in the past tense.
posted
I read this book. My problem with first person/present in this novel is the differences between the POV characters are unclear, and I had trouble believing in each character after the first one.
For instance, the opening character, Bruce, had his own voice and the use of 1st/present added to that. When the author changed POV to another character, he kept 1st/present and the voice did not change enough for me to believe this was a different character. He just seemed to write each character the same way and all the "I do this and I do that" became confusing when I constantly needed to remind myself who was speaking.
posted
Interesting observation to make the connection between the RPG game and the 1st Person POV. I'm the Gamemaster for an online Play-By-Email RPG. We are writing an original fantasy story, and the most difficult challenge I have is with new players who have prior RPG experience. It's hard to get them to switch OUT of first person and into third. It usually takes new players several tries to finally let go of the RPG POV.
Posts: 2026 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
its also interesting being a writer first and then going into the rpgs...
my posts are always in third person, most people, prior to my joining, were using first person. now, slowly, i seem to have changed their minds and they are naturally sorting themselves out, i think, without even knowing it. they are starting to use third person as well... am i a good or bad influence on these rpgers?
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. But now I have...sort of...
