posted
Yes, I have encountered that quite a lot. I am actually no longer a Mormon, but I used to be. Whenever anybody new to me finds out that I'm a former Mormon, they have a lot of questions about the religion, and some of them are downright bizarre. But I try to answer them as best I can, anyway.
I think it's a religion that has a lot of "mystique" surrounding it (at least, to those who aren't part of it), and that spurs a lot of weird rumors. Of course, a lot of folks find parts of Mormon doctrine to be weird, and that's understandable, I think. The nice thing is that the real information about the LDS church is out there for anybody to find easily, if they want to do a little easy research. But a lot of folks find it easier to just believe the stranger rumors they hear.
The question I get asked the most often is about "magical Mormon underwear." Everybody always seems pretty let down when I tell them that it's just a sacred garment, like in any other religion that uses sacred garments, but it's worn under your everyday clothes instead of on the outside for everybody to see. They're especially disappointed when I tell them that Mormons don't actually bathe and shower with their temple garments on. Really - if they believe that Mormons bathe with their temple garments on, then they must think it takes Mormons several hours to dry off after a bath. Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I know sometimes people have criticized how much money we spend on temples and large buildings and how much good could be done for the poor with that money. I've never heard anyone say that about a minister's salary. I don't mean to say they make extravagant sums of money, it's simply a matter that we put a similar amount of money into different things.
Right - I've always found that funny. Goodness, I've NEVER seen as much communtiy charity in any organization as when I was active in the Church. I think I was involved in helping somebody out just about every single weekend with one Church group or another. I'm happy to say that I still do community service whenever I have the time! It's a shame that the LDS church is accused of being a bunch of temple-building maniacs when their church administrators aren't even paid.
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: The worst, of course, are the apostates, who can never quite forgive the church for not bowing to their will.
Of course, it is completely impossible that anyone might just not believe in what the LDS church teaches. Nobody in their right mind could conceivably have doubted the historicity of the angel Moroni. Therefore, everyone who has left the church must obviously have done so purely because they wanted power within their church, and were annoyed when they didn't get it.
I guess I'm technically an apostate, but I didn't leave because I felt that the church wasn't conforming to what I wanted it to be, nor because of any hard feelings toward the Church. I left because I couldn't make myself into what the Church expected of me - a person who believes in a conscious and active deity. I felt like a hypocrite, staying in such a nice community when no amount of prayer or conversation with the Holy Ghost (which I also couldn't believe is a conscious spirit) could bring me to believe in deities of any kind.
At least I'm not a vicious apostate who goes around bad-mouthing the Church. I have nothing but good things to say about it to anybody who discusses it with me - in fact, I love it dearly, and I'll defend the LDS church when I think it's necessary. I just can't stay there when I don't truly believe in the existence of God.
So, not all of the apostates are total jerks. Some of us are okay.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Presences: Or, it could be an ex-member, or inactive member who says they no longer believe the faith, but will not speak badly of it, neither does this person try to go about and destroy others faith. (Of course, my believe is once a believer, always a believer, unless you decide to become an Apostate.)
Well, that makes me feel a little bit better. Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Just a note on green Jell-o: when I was on bedrest during my first pregnancy, the Visiting Teachers came by with dinner one night and dessert was green Jell-o (but with pineapple, not carrots.) However, the person I have been most likely to recieve green Jell-o salad from is my (Baptist) grandmother who grew up in Kansas. Growing up, I always assumed it was a Midwest thing (which it may well be considering how close Dallas is to the Midwest and that I'd consider Utah, while unique more Midwest than West Coast, culture-wise.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Am I the only person who LIKES green Jell-O with carrots? The only person I know who makes it is my very non-Mormon grandma. She also puts walnuts in it. Mmmmm.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Well, I feel I want to comment, however I'm not sure what to say, about the original post, I never really had a misconception such as that about current LDS...policy? (Should I call it that?)However on the the subject of misconceptions, I think most of it is simple ignorance. It is simply the way people act when something seems strange or different to them. It's almost shameful that humanity is still like that, but much of it is. Honestly I don't know what I believe anymore personally. I was raised a born-again christian, and my own experiences in life lead me to believe in god, however I'm not so sure that my belief makes any sense to me. (if that makes any sense) In any case, for the most part people of the born again faith that I've met seem to think of Mormons as unknown or they consider them "unsaved" or they have said that it was a cult. Now, I think that those ideas stem from the fact that with born again christianity, everything is so free-form that people form their own beliefs on much of what the bible says. The doctrine is not exactly set. As far as what I think, I'm not sure, my personal experiences with people of that faith were positive. The largest difference between what I was brought up to believe and Mormonism is that I was taught to believe that the only "holy book" or whatever you want to call it is the bible. I think thats one thing that sticks out to me as different, but please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just that that seems to be the largest difference to me. As far as how I feel that they line up, someone said it earlier, both believe in Jesus as their savior, and I think thats probably the most important thing. In any case, I must admit that I too am one of those people that knows very little about this. I hope that I didn't offend anyone by what I said, and I hope that I spark some conversation about the differences, the similarities, etc. Chris
Posts: 14 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote: The Book of Mormon has some choice things to say about professional ministers
I didnt know that the book of Mormon actually spoke out against professional ministers. This would explain why the guy I work with who is Mormon said some of the things he said.
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posted
Come to that, the Bible isn't very nice to professional priests either - Jesus is always clashing with them, of course, but even the OT prophets have to fight their corruption and greed.
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posted
And I think it should be noted that professional might mean something different to different people. I'm not too sure that all full time LDS church leaders are living off of savings or donations from family. In other words, the church has to be helping them out somehow.
I think "professional" means that they make money according to the number of believers they have. So they do everything they can to increase the believer count so that they can get more money. Especially if that means making doctrines more acceptable.
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posted
I agree human_2.0, but I'd add my personal experience something else. When I was 13, I was baptised in a Southern Baptist church. Within 2 months, our pastor left the church to go to a bigger church offering him a larger salary. I couldn't for the life of me understand how that could possibly be alright with God. That stuck with me for years, and eventually caused me to question everything about religion. Until I found the Mormon church, I was a very unhappy camper with religion. So while what you say above his true, I think the motives of some religious leaders can be such as what I state here.
Posts: 176 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
human 2.0, There are LDS church leaders who are given a stippened (sp?) when it is their entire lives dedicated to the work. That includes the Apostles and Prophet and Mission Presidents. However, not all of them take it and live off of retirement funds or other income. There is no information as to who or how many.
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posted
All of the Church leaders I know (on local levels, that is, not the Apostles or Prophet, etc.) have "day jobs" that pay their way.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
*nods* Most of the men I know who have served as mission presidents refused the stipend (they were able to live off investments, savings, pensions, etc. during that time instead.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
COUGH :OSC P.S. This is all we're going to say on this topic here on Hatrack. This is not a place for discussing Mormon doctrine. I responded here because this was a sincere inquiry and deserved a full and accurate answer, which I have provided. If you have further questions, please write to me via the CONTACT button at the top of the Hatrack screen, and I'll steer you to the best sources on this subject. Meanwhile, this thread is closed. COUGH sry something caught in my throat.
Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
This was posted by OSC in another blog, if one conversation about mormonism is shut down why shouldnt this one? I just wanted to point that out. And I didnt ask to be contacted OSC did lol that was his qoute I suppose I should have cut it up more.
posted
I have two comments for you War Chief. The first is that you are not OSC or Janitor. Second, as someone who has read this Forum for a while I am familiar with OSCs "rules" about discussing Mormonsim. He doesn't mind a general discussion where there can be several topics. What he doesn't like is topics on Mormonsims that are about very specific aspects of the religion. If this one started to go that way then it would also be closed.
The reason for this is, from my understanding, specific topics can easily become both contentious and prosylitizing (sic) with both reasons for something to be closed as well in general topics. Of course, he can decide any post is worthy of closure. He owns this place.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
hahaha this has not been my month, Occasional I never claimed to be OSC or Janitor, if this was meant as a slight, meh , I dont really care. Secondly
"What he doesn't like is topics on Mormonsims that are about very specific aspects of the religion. If this one started to go that way then it would also be closed."
Id say an ENTIRE SUBJECT line including myths around mormanism is specific but thats just me, and as most know I was allready explained the rules of this site in some previus post that shall not be mentioned ever again Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Actually, War Chief, I share your confusion. I am not completely sure how OSC decides what Mormon related topics he lets stand or stops. Most of my comment came from what I heard him say in the past.
My problem with what you said was how condescending it sounded. It was a bit sarcastic.
Posts: 2207 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Since OSC posted in this thread, it's fair to assume he is aware of it and would have locked it had he wished to.
If he is displeased I assume he'll lock it. Until then, there doesn't seem much of a reason to discuss it.
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posted
I don't think they're overly systematic about it. Some topics will always get a mod smackdown, and others it may depend on the tenor of the question and the range of responses it elicited. This original question did attempt to tie in with a theme that does come up in Card's work. The locked thread asked "how can a seemingly reasonable person like Mr. Card be a member of a church which blah blah blah." It's not like there aren't plentiful themes in Card's work to relate to that subject.
But I was glad to have his answer, and with the thread locked the original poster can't delete the thread.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I disagree with the locking of that particular thread (mostly because I was interested in the OP's responses,) but I see the logic behind it. As OSC said, Hatrack is not the ideal spot to discuss Mormon doctrine and other Mormon-related issues. For that, OSC has set up the forums on his Nauvoo website. Of course, since OSC is a prominent member of the LDS faith, the Hatrack forums attract a disproportionate number of Mormons when compared to the country at large, so LDS topics occasionally do pop up.
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I'm sure if OP is so inclined, they could reply here. There is a bit of a problem in that only church members are invited to Nauvoo. But people can always try www.mormon.org.Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I forgot that the Nauvoo Charter makes being LDS a pre-requisite. Still, it's a good place for discussions on Mormon doctrine.
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
First off Occasional, wasn’t trying to be overly sarcastic I am sorry if I came off that way, but its nice to know someone else hasn’t completely memorized the rulebook here.
Back on topic, there's always going to be misconceptions about different religions or the other. When people hear I am Jewish reform, they ask, "where’s your little hat"? When I respond that reform is indeed different than orthodox there's usually a fair bit of confusion. As usual though the best treatment of ignorance is simple education so I applaud you Dark as Night and farm girl for informing the public.
Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: There are also lies. It's worth remembering that there are many people - most of them born-again Christians - whose "ministry" consists of deliberately distorting history and/or making stuff up in order to keep people from believing the message of the Mormon missionaries - basically, trying to immunize people against Mormons.
The actions mentioned above my OSC. the reply by KoM, and a recent article I read in Wired Magazine named "The New Ateism. No Heave. No Hell. Just Science. Inside the Crusade Against Religion" just infuriate me. I am a Christian and have encountered many times Jehovah’s Witnesses and the nice guys in white shirts on bikes coming to my door. I let them give their spiel and politely tell them I am a Southern Baptist and do not feel I should convert today, and then wish them luck on their way. Why can’t people just accept there are people on this planet that believe different than us? And that is, in fact, ok!
In the Wired article, the writer talks about how “New Atheists” are not content to allow believers (of any faith) to get away with their stupid beliefs. Furthermore, they should not be allowed to ruin their children by forcing their beliefs on them. The funny thing is, the writer states one of the leaders in this movement strongly believes in democracy. That made me laugh out loud, since our democracy was founded on freedom of religion among other things.
Religious intolerance, either between faiths or non-believer to believer, is completely unacceptable.
I have no problem with Mormons, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, or non-believers. If people would apply what they have learned from religion, parents, or common sense, they will know not to judge, lest ye be judged. Or in secular terms, “Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones”. (or something like that)
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I've always found it interesting howhumanity lets little differences shange how we view people. But there are respites. I am a member of the LDS faith, and an avid Scouter, and i can tell you that although there are a lot of misconceptions about religions, there are also a lot of people who are willing to try to find out what he truth is behind the religion. This last summer I went to Philmont New Mexico and spent two weeks building trail and backpacking with the Boy Scouts of America. And we had members of numerous faiths. Jews, Cathoics, Quakers, Baptists, and in nearly every case, there was a part of someones faith that was grossly misunderstood. And we all approached with the knowledge that none of us were going to convert each other, but that we were helping each other understand our various faiths. It was an amazing experience, getting to hear the truth behind various religions, as well as the person's personal view on the religion.
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Goodness, I've NEVER seen as much communtiy charity in any organization as when I was active in the Church. I think I was involved in helping somebody out just about every single weekend with one Church group or another. I'm happy to say that I still do community service whenever I have the time! It's a shame that the LDS church is accused of being a bunch of temple-building maniacs when their church administrators aren't even paid. ![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
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