posted
Heh. My first reading of this thread title had me picturing Howard Dean playing with race cars.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
In what way? So, like, we should just gloss over Dean's comments because neo-cons are majority white? Hell, Clinton's freaking staff was majority white (and I'd be willing to place bets on Dean's election campaign staff). Screw that. He's implying that Republicans are racist, and it is little more than a stupid ad hominem gag. Shows how little-minded Dean's politics are, especially juxtaposed with his "I hate Republicans" spiel.
Posts: 5663 | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
I'm not bashing Dean. The dems are out of power in the federal government in every way it is possible to be out of power and still have a party. I think Dean's trying to rally the base, and the race card is one of the few he has to play. It does look slightly idiotic considering the current Secretary of State, but he doesn't have many options. It's pathetic, but he has a long road ahead of him.
Posts: 1163 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Wow, the head of the DNC made a joke about one of the major perceived weaknesses of the oppositon party. The real people who should be upset are Jay Leno's writers because Dean got to the joke before they did. I think people may be lacking perspective here.
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quote:It does look slightly idiotic considering the current Secretary of State, but you can't blame Dean for that.
This is why tokenism works. I'm not saying that Rice is a token. I'm saying that the exact reason you listed above is why tokenism works on stupid people. The only people to whom Dean's statement would look idiotic would be those who think that if you have a black sec of state, you can't be an entrenched party of white people.
I like Dean because he is going to expect the American people to think. He doesn't dumb down to them, and that's fine. The guy is calling them like he sees them, and I think he has pretty good eyes.
posted
Was that directed at me? No one is foaming at the mouth - if a joke, it was a dumb one relying on stereotypes. If a joke meant half seriously in effort to unite the party, it was sad.
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Irami:
[ February 15, 2005, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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I just think it's hilarious (or hilariously chilling, depending on my mood) that Dean has received such a relentlessly negative treatment from all sides of the media for the past year. I mean, when he did so well leading up to the primaries, I figured he'd bear the brunt of being a frontrunner, with all the pros and cons it brings.... but wow! Every time I walked past a TV showing Fox News, for three solid months, all I heard was how psychotic and ultra-liberal and racist this guy from Vermont was, and what his latest psychotic/ultra-liberal/racist screw-up had been. It was unbelievable, the sheer amount of coverage he got!
And, like, was anyone even aware that ABC and Diane Sawyer ran a whole apology for that overblown "scream" thing? Of course not, because for one reason or another, Dean is the media's whipping boy, and nothing he does is ever right.
They must be very afraid of him, indeed.
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Did you see the Republican National Convention? If you take out the minority votes, the Democrats got creamed. The republicans cleaned up the white vote.
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All I have to say is "YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! WHO WANTS HORS D'OEUVRES?!?!? YEAH!!
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Let me be clear, kat, so that we don't mince words. I think that you expect that Americans are stupid, and you think that Dean is an idiot for not playing to the stupidity of the American people.
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quote:And if enough outspoken Republicans have an attitude like that, Dean will succeed beyond your worst nightmares.
Have I ever said I'm a Republican? How do you know I think Dean succeeding would be a nightmare.
I do object to racist politics. Racism against whites is still racism.
Irami, you have publicly stated many times that we'd be surprised at how many people you dislike (I wouldn't), and you can't discuss any topic without mentioning the immorality of being white, male, and untortured by that fact. Don't trust your assumptions about me.
[ February 15, 2005, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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quote:I do object to racist politics. Racism against whites is still racism.
I don't object. I think it's about time race got put right out in the open and on the table because there are gaps, and the gaps are there for a reason.
posted
I like Dean. He's just crazy enough to take seriously. I doubt that China or N. Korea would put themselves in a position where Dean could go after them. He's still not quite over that whole POW mishap...
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Not politics about race, politics where the most relevant fact is someone's skin color, politics that doesn't take in the complexity of the world and reduces worth of policies to having a quarter of a room full of black friends.
Poly, if that was directed at me, it would be more effective if I claimed the Republican party.
[ February 15, 2005, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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posted
Heh, I don't much care what label you choose to associate with, but I do find it amusing to think it's "idiotic" to question the colorblindness of the GOP simply because they have a handful of minority "friends". Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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David, I know. I'm just killing time. And they look so much alike Plus with people getting so worked up I wanted to see if anyone would take the bait...
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You can't defend an attack on a party for the shade of it's membership by a lack of colorblindness.
No Adam, I didn't. I have made my feelings concerning his words in the quote quite clear, but I haven't discussed Dean as a person or Dean's politics at all. It is possible to agree with the mission of someone and disagree with how they set about accomplishing it.
[ February 15, 2005, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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I think you can. I think he did. And I'm pretty sure it got a laugh from the audience who wanted to hear what he really thought, a full thread on Hatrack, and my continued support and confidence.
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posted
What I find most appalling about this is if a prominent Republican had made such a statement, the press would be talking about his racial slurs and how evil he is for thinking of minorities in this fashion. A democrat saying the same thing is absolutely fine.
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I feel about Dean playing the race card the same way I feel about Bush playing the religion card - irritated. It was a cheap and lazy shot.
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The funny thing is that the Dems don't exactly go out of their way to elevate minorities to high positions. Of the ten Democrats who declared their candiacy for President, two Black and neither stood a chance. People can say Rice and Powell were token, but I still didn't see any Black secretaries of state under Clinton or Carter. In fact, the only "minority" that I can remember being in any significant position of power in the Clinton White House was the Jewish Republican Secretary of Defense William Cohen. So the best as I can tell, White Democrats are using minorities to try to stay/get in power and they don't actually do anything for them.
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posted
Dean will play the race card in lilly white Vermont. This is like Bush calling that gathering of rich people his base. They were both jokes that were true. You can judge accordingly.
quote:So the best as I can tell, White Democrats are using minorities to try to stay/get in power and they don't actually do anything for them.
posted
Income level isn't an accurate predictor of political party - too many inexplicably Republican poor. Race and religion are much better predictors.
I'd condemn Bush just as much if he stood up and said, "If the Democrats were holding this meeting, they could schedule it on a Sunday morning without missing a soul."
(Addendum: Someone please aknowledge that was clever. I may never get to use it again.)
[ February 15, 2005, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Lady Jane ]
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posted
As has been previously discussed the Al Smith Memorial Dinner (named after a prominent Democrat) is where both presidential candidates (Al Gore was there to) make fun of themselves. And as long as film is included in media, that sound bite recieved plenty of coverage.
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posted
No one seems to have brought up that it was a casually racist thing to say about the hotel staff.
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Have you seen hotel staff, especially in the midwest? It's like pretending that the overwhelming percentage of gardners in southern California aren't recent Mexican immigrants.
It's nice to see a white person who isn't okay with it and is not afraid to say it.
The basis of why people vote for politicians is very often, "What have you done for me?" Blacks (a lot of them) seem to expect that Democrats will work for them specifically. Affirmative action aside, all I see is pandering every four years and a promise of a welfare check.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:The basis of why people vote for politicians is very often, "What have you done for me?"
Do you think that that's appropriate? Are we talking about "other" people?
It's kind of like Kat's first response about how Dean's mark was idiotic because it won't play to the stupid people. I'm not sure that politicians should play to the greedy or self-centered, especially in national office.
posted
Look, y'all can nitpick to your heart's content about every little mistake you think Dean is making. I've followed the man's politics for over a year now, and I know that he isn't racist, that he isn't psychotic, that he isn't even ultra-liberal. He's a decent man with a sharp wit and an excellent grasp of reality, two things that should lead to easy victories over the current conservative movement.
And, now, he's finally been elected to a position from which the media can no longer stuff him into a tiny box and ignore him. I'm excited, and I haven't been excited about politics in a long time.
So nyah-nyah, my guy is intelligent, well-read, and isn't afraid to speak his mind. In complete sentences!
If y'all want to try to paint him as some sort of monster, you go on right ahead. I've got the truth on my side. Posts: 1681 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I don't think that's why people should vote, but it doesn't change the fact that that is what Democrats do to win the minority vote, they promise that'll fix everything that the Republicans did wrong and help minorities specifically. I'm not saying that most GOP politicians (and Democratic ones as well) don't do the same thing with pork barrel spending, but from my perspective it seems like Democratic party policy in regards to minorities.
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quote:I don't think that's why people should vote, but it doesn't change the fact that that is what Democrats do to win the minority vote, they promise that'll fix everything that the Republicans did wrong and help minorities specifically. I'm not saying that most GOP politicians (and Democratic ones as well) don't do the same thing with pork barrel spending, but from my perspective it seems like Democratic party policy in regards to minorities.
You would be correct if you flipped that around, NFL.
Democrats win the minority vote because minority voters know darn well that the Republicans aren't going to do one darn thing to help them.
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Ela, the Democrats don't and don't have to do anything to help them either. They've convinced everyone there's no where else for them to go.
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quote:it doesn't change the fact that that is what Democrats do to win the minority vote
I'm not sure that's what Democrats do to win the minority vote. Bush thought that when he went in the Urban League talking about, "What have the Democrats done for me lately."
As a minority, I never expect to win by people acting merely out of self-interest. And as the Republican party is the one that seems to endorse self-interest, they scare me. I have the math against me. In a democracy, a sense of duty among the entire populace is the only hope for a minority, and maybe I'm talking in abstract terms but it is the belief in my capacity for Americans to feel a sense of duty that allows me to proudly call myself an American.
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Plus with people getting so worked up I wanted to see if anyone would take the bait...
