posted
I agree. I just think this is really funny, and the guy deserved it (I mean, jeez, 8 times?). I was a catholic schoolgirl once,and I still get harrassed when guys find out (oooh, do you still fit in the uniform? I'd love to see you in it). I think there's this whole idea of innocence/repressed sexuality surrounding the catholic schoolgirl image that predators and some regular guys see. So the fact that these girls took the initiative that the police didn't, is awesome and empowering.
quote:His screaming visage was reflected in their shiny black patent-leather shoes.
Sweet William, did you ever see this play (Do Patent Leather Shoes Really Reflect UP?) It was playing in Woodbury, NJ a week or so ago (near Philly). My favorite and most helpful professor played a dancing nun. I really wanted to go and see her, but couldn't.
Posts: 463 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I don't think vigilante justice is the only justice left in America. And I'm worried that anyone seriously thinks that.
I disagree that we coddle our convicted felons. I do, however, think that sex crimes are a special case in that it appears the compulsions are so strong that it may not be possible to rehabilitate all or most of these offenders.
If that's the case, then we need a different way of handling them.
I'm not in favor of stoning, though. I don't see that as justice. I see it as mob rule. And if we stone people for this type of crime, aren't we soon going to start stoning people for other sexual practices? Then we'll go back to killing adulterers...
Where will it end if we start saying that it's okay to give in to the mob mentality?
With that many people and eye witnesses, couldn't they have held the guy until the cops came and then all filed complaints? It may not be as instantly satisfying, but in the long run I think knowing that they gave in to mob violence is going to have a bad effect on those involved that far outweighs any sense of instant justice they got out of it.
What if they'd killed him? Certainly the fact that he's alive has less to do with their restraint and more to do with how inept they were at kicking him -- and how quickly the cops arrived.
Would all those girls go back to school on Monday and feel good about kicking a person to death? Even if he was a pervert?
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote: I don't think vigilante justice is the only justice left in America. And I'm worried that anyone seriously thinks that.
That's a really strong statement, and I don't think the girls were thinking about vigilante justice much when they struck back. I also doubt that this will be an 'example' of successful vigilante justice that will encourage more of it.
Don't know know? Dr. Pepper salutes individuality!
posted
Welcome, Chocodile! I see that you've been around a while but I've not seen your posts before so I have not yet welcomed you!
I guess since this is the south I was presupposing that everyone is already armed. I have a shotgun and a rifle and a pistol here, though they aren't usually loaded. I think if I were in a town where someone was terrorizing the women of the area in this way, I would probably load the pistol or the shotgun and keep it handy just in case. Then if I woke and this man were there, I would not be defenseless.
We take it very personally when people are rude enough to come into our homes uninvited. Particularly in that situation where the serial killer targeted women, and this guy is making a point of wearing a t-shirt in honor of the serial killer, I would just take that as a deadly threat. When you threaten someone with a deadly threat, you are taking the chance that they will use deadly force to counter that threat.
I might shoot him in the leg and wait for the cops, but how do I know he doesn't have a concealed weapon? How can I be completely sure I can stay in control of the situation while waiting for the authorities to arrive? What if he jumped me and stabbed me or something? It's just much safer (both for me and for his next victim) to go ahead and kill him. If he wants not to be in deadly danger, he has the very easily available option of not threatening people in this way. Not breaking in to their rooms. That is the method I would recommend he use for staying alive.
[ November 01, 2003, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Here in Oklahoma we have what is called the 'Make my Day' law.
It allows us to shoot someone who is intruding in such a manner as the man with the serial killer shirt, or someone who is robbing us.
We've never had a problem with that. My Father is an avid gun collector.
Richard-I appologize. I had assumed from your comment that you felt like what he said was okay. But since that was the only part of what I said that you nit-picked, that's the only part of what I said that I appologize for. The rest was a some-what well thought-out supposition about what I know of psychology of sexuality. Posts: 701 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I think he was smart to choose Catholic school girls. If they were from public schools the reactions would probably be really different.
Posts: 4628 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
i really think it matters that the girls didn't kick the guy TO DEATH, heck, they didn't even kick him unconscious. they just laid a bit of a smackdown.
sorta like how some kids need a firm slap on the thigh when they just did something really dangerous/wrong to immediately stop them. i am not talking corporal punishment or beatings. there is a difference. i don't think i'd find fault with a mother for slapping her teenager in the mouth for calling her a dirty name. i dont think it's ideal, but i don't think it's abuse or maladaptive, either.
i would like slash's opinion on this matter.
hardly anyone (if any at all) deserves death, but perhaps a few of the more stubborn and obnoxious of us need a moderate beating.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Let's boil this down. Situation: random pervert flashes schoolgirls.
I think it's lamentable that the response society generally expects from women is "OMG! the phallus, symbol of male superiority! run away and feel ashamed for yourself!". I think it's great that younger generations are learning to say "**** this guy and his faux power trip."
The tangential points regarding rape etc. will have to wait for another thread.
Posts: 1839 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I think the term "vigilante justice" is misapplied here. I generally think of a vigilante as somebody who takes it upon him- or herself to punish wrongdoers in general--i.e., somebody who involves him- or herself in cases he or she is not a part of. These girls were the victims of his crime.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Okay here are my personal issues here. For one in the military ,and I'm sure the police as well they have something called appropriate force. For one I can't hit anyone that isn't physical threatning me no matter what. Guess what some man holding his penis is not physically threatning, there is no legal basis as far as me or a police officer to do anything to him. How do I prove in a court of law that the man was going to bash me with it? Thats why in so many situtions the fact that a policeman/soldier has a firearm it does him no good. Anyhow back to this beating.
The day that I can honestly go about and protect myself with physical force will be a good day as far as I'm concerned. However I don't live in a society like that, in my opinion everyone is far too soft when it comes to every matter. Example, Katharina you hoped that he didn't suffer any permanent injury. Why? It honestly befuddles me at time. I believe on having mercy on my enemy, but certain things are going to happen to him or her when stuff hits the fan. Example, Man attacks me and I disable him in a fight but darned I broke his arm in an arm bar. I understand why people think this is bad.. but it just.. perplexes me anyhow. You can't have it two ways. Plus to be honest I'm tired of people being offended.. pretty much nothing honestly offends me unless its someone I have some respect for. As long as you don't violate my physical space ( touch me etc.) I'm pretty much good. Why should we hide commandments, dress a certain way, or have to refrain from who knows how many activities. Go walking around nude for all I care!!! Its you, it doesn't stop me from living and from trying to have a good time!!! I suppose its pointless to vent here.. but just.. I hate people who want to have it both ways. They would love all these freedoms but hate the price. Your free to your opinions and ways of life and until I find someplace nicer, which is probably not going to happen.. well I'm going to stay in America and deal with som cruddy opinions.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
I don't know either, Icky. These days, whenever I read something by fox all I can think is, "Dude, come home."
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
out of all the several things about your post that disturbs me, fox, i think the line about nothing offending you unless its something you have respect for really put up a red flag for me, especially in the context of this thread.
protection of innocence is something you don't respect? healthy sexuality is something you don't respect?
honestly i don't know what else to debate because i am having trouble finding your post coherent. i am not trying to belittle or berate, i just honestly don't understand what the heck you are trying to say.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I understood him just fine. If you attack, expect to be countered with appropriate force. Don't use excessive force on someone who attacks you or offends you by waving their privates at you or whatever. He doesn't believe that waving your privates at someone is all that offensive, however, because no physical harm is being done. Only people he cares about can offend him without physically touching him. Then again, people shouldn't whine if someone gets hurt while they are attacking someone. He's fed up with what seems like the prevailing opinion in America of excessive worry about harm done to wrongdoers, and just all around softness in general. But until he finds a better place to live, which there isn't one right now, he will stay in America.
Paul, is that an accurate paraphrase? It seemed pretty clear to me. It makes a lot of sense, too. Even though there is an implied threat of rape by the first fellow, and of murder by the second fellow, they have not hurt anyone yet. So it's inappropriate to kick their teeth in or shoot them dead. Maybe you are right, Paul. I'm a lot more violent a person than you, as we know. I would probably hurt them more than I should.
<<<<<Paul>>>>> But I agree with everyone else that you definitely should come home!
[ November 02, 2003, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: ana kata ]
Posts: 968 | Registered: Sep 2003
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I'm not sure what it all has to do with our freedoms either. I mean, the most repressive nations on Earth are those that still allow the mob to mete out justice (albeit in state-sanctioned "events"). I'm just not clear how school girls beating up a pervert is advancing the cause of freedom any more than I understand how it advances the cause of justice.
Basically, here's my idea of the right way to handle these situations:
1) Identify the perpetrator 2) Apprehend him 3) Gather evidence and witness statements 4) Have a trial 5) If he's convicted, send him to jail and have a mandatory psych evaluation & treatment program as a condition of parole. 6) If he repeats the offense upon release from prison, make the penalties more harsh and the probation period longer and more closely monitored. But also have more treatment as a mandatory condition as well. 7) If after all that the guy just can't control himself, then he should be put in prison or a psych ward indefinitely.
It's not a question of protecting innocent eyes, but the fear of escalation on his part. The point is that the guy was caught early in what is probably a degenerating cycle of perverse sexual behavior. Eventually he probably will work up the nerve to physically harm someone and it's better if we catch him and give him some treatment early rather than have to deal with the victims of his more serious crimes later.
I have known many girls & women and a few boys who were the victims of sexual assaults. My immediate reaction is to want to kill or maim the perpetrator. Especially when the victim is a child I want to just kill the guy. But that is not what I truly hope for.
And the death of a criminal gives me very little satisfaction in any meaningful sense. I think those people do have souls and that they probably were victims themselves. What I want is to find ways to stop them or help the current victims of this kind of thing before they too end up abusing others.
I think these people need to be studied so that we can figure out the conditions under which sexual impulses become harmful and then the harm is directed at other people. I think it is part of our duty as a mature society to do more than punish the wrongdoer. I think we should be working to figure out how to avoid the bad things in the first place. We know it has to have a developmental/nurture component so at the very least we can attack that part of it with training and better parenting.
And even if we still end up having to punish people, wouldn't we be better off if everyone learned to be better parents in the first place? Maybe we could even teach parents to recognize the signs of growing perturbations in their own kids. I mean, even with wonderful parents, some monsters are born among us. Shouldn't we have a way for those people to be identified and helped as much as we can. And then remove their freedom if that's what it takes?
In the grand scheme of things, this guy getting pummeled by school girls is just an oddity and a footnote to what is a real and growing problem in our society. Ultimately, I don't care that the kids got to kick the guy or not. What I care about is whether we are doing anything to prevent the problems in the first place.
And I don't think sheltering children is the right answer. As much as I'd like to think that children should just have a childhood and not have to worry about bad things, the reality seems to me that it's horribly naive to actually act on that impulse. I think parents simply have to prepare their children for the kinds of things that they are likely to encounter so that they aren't as traumatized and don't just internalize whatever happens.
But I'm not a parent. And I can easily see how it would be hard to have these kinds of "training sessions" with a small child and then have the years rush by without ever feeling that the time is right to bring the subject up.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Yeah I suppose thats rather incoherent. There are a few reasons for that but yeah. I just had my first three full days of being off since March. Thats like.. 200 some odd days of 24/7 employment. If only I was paid by the hour. I think I end up making about.. 2k a month over here right now, which is a lot more than usual. My base pay for being an E4 is like.. 1400-1500 dollars a month, something in that range. Of course thats before taxes ( my evil state takes like a hundred dollars of my measily paycheck a month) yippe for tax returns. Anyhow.. yeah I'm a bit confused in the mind a good portion of the time. You could say I'm a rather angry individual, and that would not be an understatement. Luckily I still act happy and cheery around everyone else. I just can get bad in an argument. Anyhow, I gotta get running here so umm.. don't pay attention to most of the things I've said in the past 4 months . Later
Posts: 1753 | Registered: May 2001
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I would totally be foaming at the mouth after that much work, pressure and stress. Even if it wasn't in a combat zone with enemies wanting to shoot or blow up me and my buddies. I hope you enjoy your brief R&R Blackfox. Hang in there. ((Blackfox))
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
((((BlackFox)))) I don't really know you, but I feel for you. I get angsty after 14 straight days of work, I can't imagine what you are going through.
I pray you come home safe, and soon. Posts: 463 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I would totally be foaming at the mouth after that much work, pressure and stress. Even if it wasn't in a combat zone with enemies wanting to shoot or blow up me and my buddies. I hope you enjoy your brief R&R Blackfox. 
