posted
"Falun_Gong...Ignore some of the more difficult to believe tenets, and read purely the basic idea behind the belief and how terribly the Chinese govt cracked down on it."
quote:The Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864) was perhaps the bloodiest civil war in human history, a clash between the forces of the Qing Empire in China and those inspired by a Hakka self-proclaimed mystic named Hong Xiuquan, a Christian convert who had claimed that he was the new Messiah and younger brother of Jesus Christ.
The Chinese leadership remembers history. One would be very hard pressed to show any meaningful differences between the FalunGong, the Maoist cult, The Righteous and Harmonious Society, and followers of HongXiuquan.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by aspectre: "Falun_Gong...Ignore some of the more difficult to believe tenets, and read purely the basic idea behind the belief and how terribly the Chinese govt cracked down on it."
quote:The Taiping Rebellion (1851–1864) was perhaps the bloodiest civil war in human history, a clash between the forces of the Qing Empire in China and those inspired by a Hakka self-proclaimed mystic named Hong Xiuquan, a Christian convert who had claimed that he was the new Messiah and younger brother of Jesus Christ.
The Chinese leadership remembers history. One would be very hard pressed to show any meaningful differences between the FalunGong, the Maoist cult, The Righteous and Harmonious Society, and followers of HongXiuquan.
Yeah except the Tai Ping Rebellion was a very militant group from the get go, and they almost immedietly started their warpath from the beginning. Hong Xiu Quan said all of China was living in sin and he was sent to purge the world of demons. Mr. Li of Fa Lun Gong exhibited NONE of those ambitions. Even while being attacked he admonished his followers to be none violent and to wait for divine intervention. He instructed them in the use of defensive methods.
The only similarity between the Tai Ping rebellion and Fa Lun Gong is they were both centralized around a leader.
Perhaps the memory of Tai Ping did indeed play some effect, but its Apples and Oranges as far as I am concerned.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
The google ad is advertising a Christian dating service.
I find this quite funny.
(Bible Belt + strippers + google = Christian dating!)
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Pelegius: "Pel having a dialogue with a conservative communist in China about when it is proper for the government to intervene would make for some interesting reading."
I am willing if you can find a conservative communist equaly willing.
posted
ou ou ou .... That would be really entertaining to set up a dialouge between Blayne and Pel. I could even be the moderator, as I'm roughly the same age as them and agree with neither of them on barely anything
I know we're talking about China here, but as I've never been to China I'm not qualified to speak on it. I have, however, been to another Communist country: Vietnam. There are plenty of churches in Vietnam. My grandparents helped start a bunch of them. I actually went to ... I don't remember whether it was protestant or catholic actually, but it was a church service in a church and it was one of the most moving things I've ever experience, even though I didn't understand any of what they were saying. The people's belief and faith were very cool.
And I have nothing to say on the strippers at funerals subject that has not already been said .
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Vietnam started as far more socialist then extreme communist, Ho Chi Minh very much wanted to use he USA consitution in Vietnams and was very moderate, however the refusal of the US to help the Viet Minh and later when they canceled democratic elections in vietnam because they feared that Ho Chi Minh would win overwhelmingly I do not know about him specifically but his party became far more extreme in responce.
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quote:Ho Chi Minh very much wanted to use the USA consitution in Vietnam
I have seen very little evidence of this. I could concede that Ho Chi Min wanted to provide some of the civil liberties outlined in the Bill of Rights, but he certainly had no plans for a model of govt based on the US.
quote:the refusal of the US to help the Viet Minh and later when they canceled democratic elections in vietnam because they feared that Ho Chi Minh would win overwhelmingly I do not know about him specifically but his party became far more extreme in response.
You are assigning the US a much too intricate role in these events. Just because the US refused to assist the Viet Minh does not mean the Viet cong hated them for it. Elections fell apart because Ngo Dinh Diem decided to cancel the elections. Ngo Dinh Diem did not care to legitimize his control over south Vietnam and wanted to ceize control over all of it.
Ho Chi Min initially was very much against an armed response to Ngo Dinh Diem policies, but eventually it was clear that Ngo Dinh Diem was not going to negotiate, and both sides became hostile to each other. It was at THIS point that the US initiated "Operation: Rolling Thunder" and stuck its nose in this bombshell.
I admire Ho Chi Min very much, but I honestly think that based on his travels before coming to Vietnam he was firmly in the Communist mindset long before he became the father of modern day Vietnam. His admiration of the US constitution IMO was a stepping stone that led him to adopting more liberal ideas and eventually to Communism.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Wikipedia (being the only verifuable source I can give atm) and various other source do actually point towards the USA for influencing the whole fiasco.
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posted
Good thing I don't live in China. Now I can have strippers at my funeral and get a coffin dance! All right! Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: Wikipedia (being the only verifuable source I can give atm) and various other source do actually point towards the USA for influencing the whole fiasco.
Funny I was including the Wikipedia in my list of sources when I wrote that.
Yes the US helped setup the elections and backed the campaign of Ngo Dinh Diem (The Vietcong were all for elections at this point). They also noted that had elections actually taken place 80% of the country would have probably voted for Ho Chi Min. But the US did NOT cancel the elections, Ngo Dinh Diem did of his own volition (it seems likely he knew he would lose). It was only THEN that the US really started to screw things up and start busting out the economic sanctions as well as sending in the military.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
details details so they didnt phsically cancel it they sill recieved encouragement and o a deree influenced by the US to do so.
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