posted
airman, you know the girl better than any of us do. There are some women who that whole manipulative stereotypical approach GS is suggesting work. I've used it and had it work (though I will say I've always lost my interest soon after. It makes me feel like the attraction is not real). I've also had plentiful experience with girls who don't react at all to that whole under the radar deal and really want straight talk. And there are some who want both or either, depending on the mood.
If you want my advice (and you wouldn't have started this thread if you didn't ), I would say be direct and ask her what's up. If I was in your position, that's what I would do, after much hemming and hawing and awkwardness. But that's because my mantra when it comes to life is "It's worth a shot". I'd rather kick myself for doing something stupid than for being stupid and not doing something. If that makes any sense.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
"Even the worst and most intractable mistake beats the hell out of never trying" -Meredith Grey, Grey's Anatomy What Dr Strangelove said
Posts: 97 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by airmanfour: foundling - Being snarky isn't all that constructive. Do you have any suggestions you think'll work better than General Sax's? 'Cause I can see how his suggestions could offend, but at least he's trying to help.
Maybe it's just me, but I found foundling's posts far more helpful than GS's. At least foundling's were funny!
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
There are times and circumstances under which humans will behave in ways that are consistent with the learned responses under Operant Conditioning procedures. The realm of emotional responses is, however, one that in humans is the largest challenge for simple conditioning theories to explain, let alone predict or control.
A lot has happened in the field of human learning and cognition in the decades since Skinner did his seminal work. For the most part those years have seen a gradual diminishing of the areas of all animal behavior to which simple conditioning models can be said to provide an adequate explanation. The effect of context in conditioning, for example, has been demonstrated in numerous animals (and humans) and is completely beyond anything that Skinner ever imagined, let alone proposed for humans.
And that's still within what one might call a core model of conditioning.
When you start looking at cognitive influences -- that is: mental models, maps, internal hypothesis testing, and so many other things that are just not allowed in Skinner's world, what you find is that they are not only true and useful concepts, but absolutely necessary for even the most rudimentary explanations of behavior. And not just in humans, but in most animals.
So, while Skinner was no doubt a genius, he was also absolutely wrong in trying to extend his theories beyond the most simple of "programmed" behavior.
And yes, Skinner did treat others as if they were operant-learning machines. He was nearly universally reviled for this. Truth be told, he was kind of a pompous @ss, from all accounts. People probably behaved the way he wanted more out of fear of him (or...let's be charitable and call it awe), than because he had successfully programmed them through operant means. They simply figured out (eventually) what the heck he was steering them towards and did it for him because it was easier than having him try to shape them further.
Now...as for advice, I have learned the following rules (and others have already stated most if not all of this earlier in the thread, but I'll try here):
1) If you do not enjoy "playing games" don't try injecting them into your relationships.
2) If someone says they do not love you, believe them.
3) If you are having a serious relationship with someone and cannot take that person at their word, or if you cannot be taken at your word, the relationship is probably doomed. Either change it or give up on it, but don't persist in the status quo.
4) If you want to know how someone feels about you, ask. If the answer is that they are uncertain, then you have a decision to make, and you may just have to be patient. But any other answer from them (anything certain) is better than just wishing you knew. And an uncertain answer is no worse than what you already were going through.
5) Always allow the person the "space" to say that they aren't ready to answer you.
6) Don't YOU be wishy-washy. If you are certain, just say so. But at the same time, let the other person know that you respect them and will not try to make a relationship happen if they do not want one or are not ready for one.
7) If you are looking for a committed relationship, and the other person is not, you are going to be hurt. Either come to terms with that or walk away.
8) Do NOT build a fantasy world/life. Do NOT hold imaginary conversations with the person of your desires. Make up your mind to deal with the reality of the situation and don't try to live both parts of the relationship.
9) Do NOT think that "eventually" love will bloom, or that you can change the other person in a way that is just right. If you enter a relationship with these notions, the most likely outcome is a lot of pain for both parties.
10) Life long relationships ARE work. But, honestly, if it is not fun at the outset, then something is lacking. And part of what helps in the later tough times is the knowledge that you two can be at your ease together and enjoy one another's company -- i.e., have fun together. So, if you don't have that kind of groundwork to fall back on, what will you do when things do get a little tough later on?
Good luck, no matter what path you take. Be true to yourself and share that with her. If she loves you as you are, then everything else is gravy.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Dang Bob. I think I'm going to print that out and keep it in my box full of important life lessons.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I am very sad for people whose only experience of relationships and their maintenance has been transactional.
And very happy that I have my husband. Who I DO appreciate, even when he's nice to me every day. Which he is. And he even changes diapers, washes dishes, and vacuums.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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There is enough heartache and joy in the world. You do not need to increase either by assuming things will happen only as you hope or fear.
The pain of a rejection is 10 times less than the pain of assuming you will be rejected so living in fear that your assumption may come true.
The joy of a great real relationship is 1,000 times better than the joy of the relationship you assume you are having plus the pain that reality too often brings to such assumptions.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I thought it might be considered a form of flooding, if I did it in excess. It's only my second time, so I don't think I'll be banned/decapitated/quartered.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Call her at a time you're pretty sure you'll be leaving a message, so you can talk uninterrupted and so she can listen to it and think about it before having to respond.
This is why I write letters when I have something important to say. Email's will work too, though.
quote:I find that most socially-conscious men tend to interpret everything as conservatively as possible, so as to avoid acting on a false-positive. Society has emphasized rape, harassment, abuse and general insensitivity to the point that I almost always need a fairly straightforward response in order to act on most anything, especially if it's sexual.
Ayup. I've even stopped right after a first kiss*, just to check that I wasn't misreading the situation.**
*Not before, because that kills the moment. I like the moment.
**In the past, I've said something along the lines of, "I was supposed to do that, right? Just wanted to be sure."
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), I would say be direct and ask her what's up. If I was in your position, that's what I would do, after much hemming and hawing and awkwardness. But that's because my mantra when it comes to life is "It's worth a shot". I'd rather kick myself for doing something stupid than for being stupid and not doing something. If that makes any sense.
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What Dr Strangelove said
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Bob.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
