posted
Judging by the many different answers given by women in this thread, I would say that it's pretty obvious individual women want different things and generalizing them into a category based on their anatomy is pretty silly.
I would say that the only thing women want that men do NOT want are things that apply exlusively to women: no menstrual cycle, less pain in childbirth, etc...but then, even those desires are predicated by the assumption that human individuals do not like nausea or pain.
I know for a fact that singling out "what women want" as if women as a group want something different than men has no meaning, since I as a man want many of the things women in this thread want. In other words, women are rather extraordinarily like HUMAN BEINGS who want similar things as each other. The fact that countless years of cultural stereotypes work against people by separating them into groups based on gender even when gender is not the driving issue behind whatever topic is being discussed should not dictate what an individual woman wants.
Women and men are different, obviously. Our anatomy is quite distinct, even our thought processes and brains are wired differently. So what? How we think a thought should not be as important as the actual thought that we have. Why separate ourselves into teams based on nonsensical rules founded on nothing but our physical make-up? Just so we can have a sense of comraderie that utterly cannot be denied, since the evidence of how each person was picked for the team is in plain sight?
I, as a man, can relate exclusively to another man who doesn't enjoy cleaning up after wet dreams, or getting kicked in the kintamas, simply because these ARE experiences denied women. Only another man can have them. I can relate, as a heterosexual, to another heterosexual male who has been dumped by a female. However, I might not relate to the REASONS for the dumping, since each relationship is between two individuals who are different people than me and the females I have had a romantic relationship with, and the only thing me and my buddy might have in common in that sense is that we were both dumped by a female. Such physical things, however, are the only aspects of which I can honestly say I ONLY relate to other men with. EVERY other topic raised in this thread (security, emotional connection, willful love that doesn't become a means of control over another person, working with a partner as a team, etc) cannot be applied to women alone, because I KNOW other men besides me who want some of the same things, and I KNOW other women who I, as a man, can relate to.
It's not a case of having a mutual enemy to bond over. It's about having shared desires that aren't confined to either gender.
Besides which, even if there is such a thing as a non-physical-makeup desire that all women share, the question should then really be whether all women should want it. *grin*
So. Did I use enough italics?
Edit: Oh holy crap, I totally did not mean to write an essay. Weird. O_O
quote:I would say that the only thing women want that men do NOT want are things that apply exlusively to women: no menstrual cycle,
No no. We don't want women to have their menstrual cramps either.
Good post Zotto. I think most of us would agree that there are many men out there who also want security, emotional connection, sovereignty, understanding, empathy, love, and yes, even other men.
But do those words always mean the exact the same thing to both sexes? Take sovereignty for example. When a woman talks about sovereignty, she might be more likely to place an emphasis on economic independence from her spouse or reproductive control.
Of course, a lot of men want those things too. But throughout history, women have traditionally been marginalized in political and economic spheres. Given that background, would a woman be more likely to place a different meaning on sovereignty?
I hope my first post didn't offend anyone. Of course no one word can correctly describe a group. I limited the response to one word simply because I wanted to quickly gauge how many people would attach female needs to what males can (or cannot) offer. However, I do believe that there are certain things that women are more likely to place a higher importance on (I stand by the chocolate).
P.S. If women want the exact same thing as men, I'm giving Shan a big screen TV for Valentine's day.
[ April 04, 2005, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: Beren One Hand ]
Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:No no. We don't want women to have their menstrual cramps either.
*ponders*
quote: Throughout history, women have traditionally been marginalized in political and economic spheres. Given that background, would a woman be more likely to place a different meaning on sovereignty?
I think what I'm trying to say, Beren, is that even though females have been generalized in such ways in the past so that based on their inherent um, femaleness it is possible to categorize them as wanting the same thing, these desires are not inherent in the gender. If men had been in the same situation, though there would be key differences in the way that they expressed their desires, it would not mean that those desires are exclusive and inherent in the male gender. Merely that it was men and not women who were being repressed or whatever. *Monty Python flashbacks* Might there not be analogous desires in males, regardless of the physical causes, such that saying one of these desires is ONLY felt by females is meaningless?
Hmm. Does that negate the meaning of separating ANYthing, though, if such things aren't considered inherent and separate? Am I talking in circles? I think I've lost myself in my own semantics. *laugh*
(BTW, I for one, was not offended by the thread, since the reasons you gave for starting it are pretty much what I figgered. *grin*)
Edit: jeez, that was a ridiculously incoherent post. *grovel*
quote:Hmm. Does that negate the meaning of separating ANYthing, though, if such things aren't considered inherent and separate? Am I talking in circles? I think I've lost myself in my own semantics
I understand what you're saying. It was very well put. Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002
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I wasn't offended. I just figured that you and other guys wanted to know what women want so you can better know how to fulfill their needs. That's really sweet.
So then you can get what you want.
And I don't mean sex. OK, not *just* sex.
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
1. Eew. 2. Ugh. 3. Why should it be the woman who needs help around the house? 4. Puke. 5. I'm not gonna pretend to care about football, so he better not pretend to care about anything I like. if he likes it, he likes it, if he doesn't, he doesn't. 6. Grunting is just as effective as long drawn out responses that say just as much as a simple "Errr." 7. Sounds kinda needy. 8. Well yes. 9. Yes yes, we woman are people too.
There's a reason why I'm single methinks *giggle*
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I said GENERALLY SPEAKING. That was to avert the backlash that came anyway. Those who backlashed can consider yourselves the exception. And I stand by my original statement.
Posts: 232 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
I'm starting to think women don't want men making blanket statements. Is that true of all of you?
Posts: 98 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Seriously, trying to find some likely-ineffable property constantly guiding one person in love, much less half of all people, is something I decided to (and did) give up on.
I try to live life lovely, and be happy, and support those I love in the same pursuits. I strive for a complex understanding, and realize that happiness one day might mean sadness the next, which only means new happiness must be found.
The question is, of course, not entirely serious, but I think the posts in this thread illustrate how complex it can be to be (intentionally, sometimes amusingly) shallow.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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