posted
I've read the ladder theory enough times, and I see some of the truths in it. As for the confidence thing, I don't think confidence and happiness necessarily lock in that way for me. I'm happy with the person I am and what I am doing. I lack confidence though, mainly because I overanalyze stuff to the point of doubt.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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Ok. Brace yourselves: [serious] kmbboots hit the nail on the head. Just be confident. Stand up straight and proud. FEEL proud. If you see someone who attracts your interest, walk up and use the most certain pick up line, ever. "Hi, my name is.... and you are?" and then chat for a little while. If she blows you off, it's her loss, and walk away. But smirk at her first, because you know something that she doesn't. Which is that she missed her chance with you. Don't get wrapped up in how you are unworthy, because if you think that way, you are. Before you go out, make a list of reasons why you are attractive, why you are a catch. And don't just think it, KNOW it. That is why rich, powerful, famous, and/or wealthy guys do well with women. That's why jerks who treat women like garbage do better than they ought, too. Such men are confident in who they are. Don't get too big-headed in a "God's gift to women" way, and you'll be ok. [/serious] But you are really better off without.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2005
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I don't need time to overthink it. In the second or so after a girl and I have made eye contact, I will have had hundreds of thoughts, many of them negative outcomes (why negative? Because I'm a depressed pessimist).
In regards to WntrMute, I have a hard time with this. I like who I am, I'm happy with who I am, and I think quite a few girls would be lucky to be with me. The catch is that in my head (that thing that overthinks everything into infinity) that I don't believe most other people see it (aside from close friends and family). So I lose confidene quite quickly. I think "Well she won't see the good stuff until she gets to know me, and going from past events, by the time she gets to know me I've already been lumped into the friend group (which is nearly impossible to get out of)." So yeah, it's no good.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
So...fake it. Whine only to people you have no interest in dating. Really old friends, family, or therapists are best 'cuz they are stuck with you. Think about qualities that attract you. I mean, would you be attracted to a self-proclaimed "depressed pessimist"? How fun!
At some point (barring medical issues for which you should consult a doctor) the faking it may become real and you will be both happier and more attractive.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Unfortunately, faked confidence can come off as cockiness--or worse.
It is nice for those who have confidence, but for those who don't it really is tough. But genuine confidence *can* be gained over time.
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It seems a vicious cycle in my mind. To have confidence, you need to succeed, but to succeed you must have confidence.
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If you fake it for long enough it'll become real. If you're faking it with a goal of making it real, is it still playing a game?
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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Maybe it's the depression talking, but I don't see initial baby steps. I say one huge leap and then baby steps afterwards.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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That is the depression talking. Have you tried talking to a counselor? Sometimes just going for a few months can make a world of difference.
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quote:That faking it takes it back to the level of playing the game.
So?
Is it really any different than wearing nice clothes on a date when you like lounging around in sweats?
I'm not suggesting you make things up or be a totally different person. Just refrain from whining about how girls don't like you, or talking about how you're depressed. Find things to discuss that you can be positive about (think about this ahead of time).
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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katharina, I did see a psychologist for 6 weeks during the summer (due to some of this stuff), and he couldn't help me too much. He directed me to a psychiatrist, which I saw last week. I'm now on medication for my depression and anxiety (in fact today is day 8 of medication), but as of now I'm still depressed and feeling lousy.
kmbboots, I don't whine or talk about how I'm depressed in front of girls. The problem in general is that I don't talk to girls at all.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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I plan to. The psychiatrist did tell me in the first week or so of medication, it is normal to feel more depressed and anxious than usual (at least for some periods). I think the last day or two may have been that.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Is it really any different than wearing nice clothes on a date when you like lounging around in sweats?
No, it really *is* different. Dressing up isn't exhausting. Trying to be outgoing and confident when you are a shy, insecure, introvert works for short bursts, but it wears you out and it isn't true to your nature. I've been through this so many times....
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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You know, pfresh, sometimes it just takes the right chemistry with the right person. Certain people can just bring out the best in me. Of course I love to be around them. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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bev, you hit it right on the head. I can dress nice to go out and it doesn't bother me or work me. To be confident and all, it drains me and quite quickly at that.
EDIT: That may be the case, but that means I haven't met the right person yet.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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quote: The problem in general is that I don't talk to girls at all.
Girls in general? Women in general (variety of ages)? Girls that you find attractive?
Maybe there are some "non-intimidating" girls you could get to know? A) It would be good practice and (best of all) B) you might discover that, once you get to know each other, they are more attractive than you thought. And you've already been talking to them!
Must go to a meeting now. I hope you have better luck today. Talk to you tomorrow.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Girls, women, whatever. The female sex around my age. Hopefully that works better. I mean I have some female friends my age I can talk to, but even with them, I socialize better online that in person. As for "non-intimidating" girls, I'm not sure they exist. All girls are intimidating, for one reason or another.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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Yeah, but I have a hard time being funny until I'm comfortable around the person and that never happens at the start. As I said earlier, by the time I am comfortable and most girls get to know and like the real me, they've already put me in the friend category.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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I've heard imagining that the person you're talking to is in their underwear helps make you feel more at ease. You should try it next time you're chatting up a girl.
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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quote:they've already put me in the friend category.
Not all women have a "friend" category. I never did. Granted, I had a "not interested" category, but I usually don't become friends with such guys anyway. But I am notorious for becoming attracted to males that I have been "just friends" with.
Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of women do have a "friend" category, particularly ones who know they can get the sort of man they want.
As a family member of mine once put it, the best girls are the ones who are attractive (whole person, not just physical) and don't know it. Like Alt. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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I don't know if you've gotten this advice already, but if you're not comfortable around girls - fake it.
They won't know, and once they're laughing you'll feel at ease and you will be comfortable. I don't like meeting girls when I go out to bars. I feel stupid, like everyone knows something that I don't. You know what I do? I make myself go up to the biggest group of cute girls I can find, and I make a joke. Usually they laugh, and a lot of times they complain that guys don't talk to them. I explain that guys are terrified of large groups of girls because they know they're being judged.
Posts: 31 | Registered: Oct 2005
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I know this sucks, but it is all about practice. Social interaction is a learned skill. I know. I am also an introvert and cringe inside at meeting new people. I have a job that requires it, though, so I practice and eventually it got easier. Now, most casual acquaintances think I'm outging. Hah! But, I am more outgoing than I was.
You don't have to be the center of attention; just start by "showing up" and refrain from being too negative.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I'm introverted. I used to be shy and somewhat insecure, too, but I worked on my confidence while I was in university and now I think I'm at least somewhat confident. Certainly when I was in high school I would never have dated girls I met at random on trains. Either way, I'm still introverted.
A side effect was that I became even more arrogant, though. Something else to work on...
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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quote:Originally posted by jebus202: I've heard imagining that the person you're talking to is in their underwear helps make you feel more at ease. You should try it next time you're chatting up a girl.
I think that would make it worse. In fact, I can't imagine it making it easier. Maybe if you are speaking in front of a group, it works. I think one on one, it doesn't.
As for what bev said, I think most of my female friends have at least a few guys interested in them, so they have a variety to pick from. I'm typically overlooked though.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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It is funny how outgoing is so often associated with confidence. People are often surprised when someone social and convival is insecure.
There is some connection, but I think gregariousness has more to do with how much someone needs to talk to another person. A higher need to interact means that reaching out requires a much lower threshold of confidence.
quote:I'm typically overlooked though.
Have you asked them out?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I have, and I get a line similar to "Let's not risk our friendship since it's so good" which I translate as "I'm not interested in you since I've got better guys to be interested in." Or something along those lines.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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I've been hooked on one girl for WAY too long, I've tried the wrong way, pushed it a little too ffar through a diversion and failed to get the right hints from the right people at the right times, at the right places about it all.
I was told that I had a creative method of trying to hit. I was foolish to choose it with the wrong person. I'll make a financial analogy:
Before making any profit, I had to settle a debt with my revenue; only thing was I didn't know there wasn't any interest, so I 'settled' a debt I thought was bigger. I wasted my resources and got no profit out of it. The receiver of the money, unfortunately, is in first-degree blood-connection to an accountant. An accounted who apparently didn't want me to make any money.
I don't know if it backfired or not, and how it did (or didn't), but I've been leered at, and it's scary.
If you didn't get what I just said, you must realise it was no easier for me. I've almost given up on the whole thing.
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
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I've always wondered about people who have low self-confidence. I'm one of them, really. I wodner how much is accurate and how much is environment-based.
This is when I started to realize some of it might be the latter. This past summer I spent at my state's honors program, six weeks at a university. Isolated, I made completely different friends. New friends.
And here's the thing. I'd mention I was attracted to some one, then follow that with "but he's out of my league". And my friend would shake her head and say no. And I was complimented. And that surprised and startled me.
I really started wondering about my friends and my self-image. If compliments truly and completely surprise me . . . I mean, I felt like I had a helium baloon in my chest, swelling up and lifting me off the ground a bit. I felt better about myself. Then I got back, and, well, it's like it started to drain. Beaten down, losing my lift, you know?
My point here is double, since I've been thinking a lot about it lately. For all those here who have said in this thread they doubt how attractive they are--in intelligence, physical appearance, personality, whatever--consider how much is a self-image you've built yourself. How much is your friends. And ask yourself what self-image you're giving your friends, too.
This sounds preachy, I know. But this is what I'm trying to build. I'm trying to compliment people more, true, sincere compliments, and say fewer negative things--even in jest, because people take a bit of that seriously. And the difference is, well, wow.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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My low self-confidence is all my own fault. My friends are typically encouraging and try to raise my self-confidence.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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Hey, pfresh, what kinds of activities do you like doing? Got anything you're good at? Something you enjoy?
Oh, and give those antidepressants a little more time to work. You should feel much better in a few weeks. If you don't, tell your psychiatrist and see about switching medications.
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Oh, I plan to give them more time to work. The psychiatrist said it can take 2-3 weeks to kick in. I have an appointment with him 2 weeks from yesterday (so basically the 3 week point). If the medication hasn't started working by then, I think he's either going to up the dosage or put me on something else.
As for your other questions, I don't know. I don't really do a whole lot of activities. I spend most of my time in my apartment either studying, watching TV, playing games, reading, or sitting online. Not much activity there. The same thing for what am I good at. The only thing I can offer up is academics. So yeah, not a whole lot going on with me there.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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Hmm...have you thought about picking up a new activity once you start feeling better? What's something that you've always wanted to do but never actually tried?
I started doing some new things in high school and college. For example, I like to make pottery for fun. I take classes over the summer break. I joined my high school yearbook staff. I do Aikido, a Japanese martial art, while I'm here at school. I volunteer with a service organization that works with fifth graders from low-income families. Activities are a good way to meet people (including females) in a comfortable, non-demanding setting. You'll probably have a boost in self-confidence as you get better at whatever it is you do, and you'll have something nifty to talk about. Just make sure that whatever you choose to do is something that puts you in contact with other people.
Anyhow, being involved in these things has been beneficial for me. Why don't you see what your campus or community has to offer?
Posts: 3546 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I've looked into clubs and such here at school, but almost all don't interest me. The few that have interested me I tried, but it didn't work out too well.
Posts: 1960 | Registered: May 2005
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I've been thinking more about your situation. Maybe part of the problem is having something to talk about. This is where clubs, etc. come in handy. You automaically have something to talk about.
What does interest you? Maybe you could start a club?
Another thing might be that you seem to see "girls" as a group. We are all different. "How do I talk to girls?", is the wrong question. Maybe you should be asking, "How do I talk to Annabelle (or Stacy, or Karen, etc.)?" Then you could tailor your approach to an individual and that might give you some clues as to what might interest her. It is also more flattering to the girl to be considered as an individual rather than "a girl". It makes her feel that you think that she is special.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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That works on specific cases Kmbboots. But what if he's just in a bar and is attracted to a girl? or in a class and wants to strike up a conversation?
Impossible to tailor your approach when you don't even know the girl, and that's probably half the problem, holding a conversation the first time you meet the girl in question so you last long enough to actually find out her name and can get to special interests and what not. Sure they are all different, but you don't know until you work your way in and find out. So the challenge is HOW do you work your way in and find out?
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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You say "Hi". I make friends with women in the same way I make friends with men, finding out what they're interested in, talking about it, and sharing what I'm interested in when it comes up. Too many people buy into the hype that men and women are these totally different and ultimately mysterious creatures, when that just isn't true.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Well, whatever class you're in could be a conversation starter. Ask about the homework, comment on the style of the professor, wondering what interested the young lady in the class to begin with. If there is class discussion and she says something, you could comment on that. "I really liked what you said about Robespierre. I've never looked at him that way. Have you read Quigly's biography?"
Here is where the club thing could come in handy, too.
The girl in the bar is tougher. First (depending on the type of bar). They are loud (making it hard to talk anyway) and people are going to assume that conversation is not really your aim. We already know why you're talking to us - the only thing you know about us is what we look like - and that's the only thing we know about you. Not a good plan unless you are gorgeous or it's late and folks are drunk and desperate. Bleh.
And WHY do you want to "work your way in" if the only thing you know about her is what she looks like?
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lyrhawn hit what I was going to say before I said it. Once I know the girl and know her interests/hobbies/etc., then I'm a little bit better. It's getting over that inital hump that's hard and that I'm having difficulty with.
As for what Bob said, I don't make many men friends either, although I'm admittedly not trying to either.
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