posted
My maiden name was two syllables: "helm" and then "bock."*** This proves insurmountable for most people. Hemlock, Hellenback, you name it. I was glad to shed the hassle.
***(I am not spelling it out as one word because I do not want it to be searchable, for reasons I'm not going to go into right now. I'd appreciate it if nobody else spells it out as one word, though. Thanks. )
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
My grandfather pretty much invented our last name*. His two sons, my father and my uncle, pronounce it differently.
*no idea why he didn't come up with something more obviously spelled, pronounced or at least interesting or pretty.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
See, my last name is fairly simple. And like the country. But my middle name, which is the name that I go by, drives everyone up a wall. Especially, for some reason, if they see it written and then try to pronounce it...or, for some reason, if they try to repeat it after I tell them what it is.
Paris, Pears (like two of the fruit), Peh Arce...
None of those sound anything at all like my name, which is why it's so surprising when people use one of the above after they have heard me speak my own name.
And I totally want to keep my own name if I ever get married. It's a rockstar name.
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: My grandfather pretty much invented our last name*. His two sons, my father and my uncle, pronounce it differently.
*no idea why he didn't come up with something more obviously spelled, pronounced or at least interesting or pretty.
I thought I invented mine. It wasn't until I got back to Israel that I found out it was a name that already existed.
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posted
Another interesting name convention-My mother and my father disagreed on what to name me, so the English name my mother chose became my first name, the Arabic name my father chose became my first middle name, my father's name became my second middle name, my paternal grandfather's name became my third middle name, and I got my father's last name. English speakers address me by my first name, Alexander or Alex, whereas Arabic speakers call me Amir. Interesting, neh?
[ March 06, 2007, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Flaming Toad on a Stick ]
Posts: 1594 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I feel kind of left out on the forum as the only person with one first, middle and last name.
I have exactly one first, one middle, and one last name. I think I'll probably take my husband's name when I get married. I don't know if I'll do what my mom did, and use my maiden as my middle. I feel no connection with my middle name, and very little with my last name.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
I have one first, one middle, and one last name as well. And I feel connected to all of 'em. So I'm keeping them all. They're mine! MINE! *maniacal laughter*
posted
Trying not to offend those with hyphenated names, I don't get the appeal.
I understand the identity thing, to a certain extent, but it doesn't show a great deal of foresight, imo.
Take for example a student I had. His father's last name was Schnitzer, and his mother's was Zipple. They just *had* to hyphenate. Made for an interesting childhood as a Zipple-Schnitzer.
In another example, I saw a name at work that was Zito-Gurdag. Heck of a combo there.
As someone said earlier, what if these two met and got married? Do the kids become Zipple-Shnitzers, or Zito-Gurdags? Do they become Zito-Gurdag-Zipple-Schnitzers? Or is it Zipple-Zito or Schnitzer-Gurdag? Or some other combination?
And what if Mary Zipple-Schnitzer-Zito-Gurdag marries another hyphenate?
There comes a point where simplicity of identity becomes more important, I think.
I also think it's strange looking in the other direction. If it's so important to preserve identity in marriage, why not change your name pre-marriage to a hyphenate of your parents names. Or a four-way hyphenate of your grandparents' names? Or so on and so forth.
I understand the "professional name" concept more easily, I think, especially in the realm of publishing and maintaining an audience, but I don't see how that warrants a hyphenate for children.
I think this hits closer to home also because my girlfriend wants to keep her last name or create a hyphenate if we get married. It just makes no sense to me.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I didn't read page two, so maybe this was already covered: Latinos keep the fathers name and the mother's maiden name, but they don't always hyphenate them. And oftentimes the only use the father's; using both names is a formality.
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I think this hits closer to home also because my girlfriend wants to keep her last name or create a hyphenate if we get married. It just makes no sense to me.
Then the obvious solution, if it doesn't matter to you and does to her, is for you to take her name.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
My first name is a legitimate name in some languages, but my mom gave it an odd, non-intuitive "American" pronunciation. So the few people who read it and aren't thrown into pronunciation conniptions pronounce it correctly, assuming they know someone Dutch. And then I have to wonder - do I correct them on their correct prounciation by making them call me a name that my Australian companion said "might as well be spelled anarchy"?
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I'm pretty surprised so many people talk about this as if it's no big deal. I've had many an argument with my boyfriend about what's appropriate re: whose name to take. I've also found, as a reporter, that the one thing that puts a source on edge/makes them hostile is screwing up their name. And I had a strongly feminist English teacher that had a hyphenated last name that was impossibly hard to pronounce, but she wouldn't answer to anything else.
Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001
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My concern is that I'm really the last chance for my name to continue. I'm my father's only son, and his brother has a son who is not likely to have children. The closest relative with my name that has had children is a fourth cousin whom I've never met.
My girlfriend has two brothers, one of which already is married with a newborn, and male cousins with the same name. Her concern is more of a professional nature, plus a strong identification with her father.
There are several solutions, obviously. One, we take my name (which is not in line with her professional goals). Two, we take her name (which effectively ends my family line's name). Three, we hyphenate (which I find no sense or logic in). Four, we each keep our own separate names (which gives any children no family name at all, per se).
It's not an easy situation, to be sure.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
My mother kept her maiden name and gave it to me as a middle. I have my father's last name. It's not a bad solution. I didn't like it all that much growing up, but it's probably a little more common now for moms to have their maiden names. And it didn't scar me for life.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I'm in a similar situation, FlyingCow. While neither of us are only children, and our family names will undoubtably be passed on without our help, my lady friend and I both very strongly identify with our last names.
My entire immediate family is going to have our last name stylized and made into a tattoo, we've got two family websites, I use my last name as my screenname for practically everything. The lady is pretty close to the same way, though no tattoos. She has a very large family with a proud heritage. She is first generation American, and there is a family hesitance to Americanization, so she is very insistant on keeping her name.
I'm not going to give up my last name, or change it in any way. My child will be proud to carry the family name, and will get the tattoo someday as well. Where is the solution to this? I know what the solution will be, the child will have my name. The lady can keep her name, for professional or any other reason, but the baby, oh no, the baby will be Vonk.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Three, we hyphenate (which I find no sense or logic in).
I expect that for many people who hyphenate, the sense is found in the failure of the other three options to satisfy.
Probably most people who make this choice find their way (through one route or another) to the same 4 options you listed, and often the same 3 fail to pass muster. So the hypenation may not be ideal, but it may be the best of the available alternatives.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Kasie H: I'm pretty surprised so many people talk about this as if it's no big deal. I've had many an argument with my boyfriend about what's appropriate re: whose name to take. I've also found, as a reporter, that the one thing that puts a source on edge/makes them hostile is screwing up their name. And I had a strongly feminist English teacher that had a hyphenated last name that was impossibly hard to pronounce, but she wouldn't answer to anything else.
It actually is a big deal to me, but I'm never quite sure if it's because it's a big deal (because I do have strong ties to my family) or because the last boyfriend who was seriously offended by the idea of my not taking his name was a psycho possessive freak, so I probably now have some kind of negative association.
Of course, I'd be totally cool with any *shudder* offspring having their father's name.
posted
It's funny, though. My girlfriend strongly identifies with her father's name, and almost recoils at her mother's maiden name. She would not have been happy at all if she, herself, had been a hyphenate.
On another note, hyphenate names feel very divisive to me. With a name like the "Smiths", you have a unified group. Everyone there is a Smith, they have a singular identity. With a name like the "Smith-Joneses", you have a dual group - it has two parts. There's the Smith part, and the Jones part. The parts share equally, but there is emphasis on the division - the separateness - rather than the unit.
It seems unnatural to me. In fact, having a hyphenate name seems to dilute identity for further generations rather than preserving identity.
Now, another option I have seen is that where the maiden name is kept for professional purposes (mainly publishing purposes), while legally still being changed. For example, Jane Doe and John Brown get married. They become "Mr. and Mrs. Brown", are called "The Browns", have children who are Browns, etc. But Jane still publishes under Jane Doe, and maintaines her professional outside-the-family identity as Jane Doe - which is how she's already built a name and reputation. I've seen this work, though it still can end up being confusing.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Actually, pH, that is one possibility that Flying Cow didn't list.
Would it be possible that you guys could marry, she keeps her name, but the children get your last name? That would seem to possibly satisfy the concerns that you listed, I think.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: Actually, that is one possibility that Flying Cow didn't list.
Would it be possible that you guys could marry, she keeps her name, but the children get your last name? That would seem to possibly satisfy the concerns that you listed, I think.
You're right, I guess he didn't list it...it seemed like the most logical option to me. My best friend growing up had her father's name, though her mother kept her maiden name.
And I know lots of children now whose parents were never married, and the children have the father's last name but of course the mother has her own. I think it is getting more and more common for mothers and children to have different last names.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
It can, but it's still weird. I can't tell you the number of times as a former teacher I called a student's house to have something like the following dialogue:
Bobby Smith's mother: Hello? Me: Hello, Mrs. Smith? Bobby Smith's mother: No, this is Ms. Jones. Me: Can I speak with Mrs. Smith, please? This is Bobby's math teacher from ABC Middle School. Bobby Smith's mother: It's not Smith, it's Jones. I didn't take my husband's name. Me: (making note in my gradebook of the umpteenth student with parents with different names) I apologize, Ms. Jones. I wanted to talk to you about Bobby's behavior in class today...
It made letters home interesting, too, as you can no longer use a mail merge for "Mr. & Mrs. <Last Name>"... instead having to opt for the more impersonal, "Parent or Guardian".
And again, it seems divisive. Everyone is a Smith, but the mother is a Jones? Doesn't that at least subconsiously set her apart from the rest of the family unit?
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
When I got married, I went with the two middle name idea- no hyphen. My husband's last name is mine and our child just has his last name. My middle name was just one syllable and my husband's last name was also one short syllable so it didn't seem too long to me. I am fine with people referring to me as though I had hyphenated it and when I do official paperwork, I like to include both middle names. Since I am about as white as you can get (pale, blond hair, blue eyes), having just a Chinese last name confuses people. When I was introduced by just my actual last name, I had someone just sit there staring in confusion for a few minutes and then finally said "the name comes from my husband." My husband's family is interesting on the last name because everyone anglicized it differently. I also have run into Chinese people who tell me we have the same last name, just they pronounce Mandarin, while I pronounce butchered Cantonese. And while my husband has two brothers, if we don't have a son, the name will probably die. One brother not sure if will ever have kids and the other took his wife's name. For our daughter, she has his last name, an American style first name and a Chinese middle name. The Mandarin pronunciation is a little easier and less emberassing than the Cantonese, so we call her that, but I imagine her Chinese relatives will call her by the Cantonese version. And since her daddy doesn't look all that Chinese, she probably won't look Chinese enough for anyone to tell she is, so she will spend her life explaining that she is part Chinese, hence the weird name.
Posts: 1001 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:There are several solutions, obviously. One, we take my name (which is not in line with her professional goals). Two, we take her name (which effectively ends my family line's name). Three, we hyphenate (which I find no sense or logic in). Four, we each keep our own separate names (which gives any children no family name at all, per se).
Have you considered her taking your name, legally, but continuing to use her maiden name professionally? I know a few people who do that, and if it's her career she's concerned about that would solve it.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I have an Irish surname, for instance. It has a history of about 1200+ years, and traces back to kings and major Irish historical figures. Nearly everyone with that name is in some way related, as the name is only passed by marriage and to children - in fact, far enough back, and only the first son could carry that name. Beyond personal identity, it has a historical tradition.
It definitely makes me more unwilling to part with it, or hyphenate it.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: It can, but it's still weird. I can't tell you the number of times as a former teacher I called a student's house to have something like the following dialogue:
Bobby Smith's mother: Hello? Me: Hello, Mrs. Smith? Bobby Smith's mother: No, this is Ms. Jones. Me: Can I speak with Mrs. Smith, please? This is Bobby's math teacher from ABC Middle School. Bobby Smith's mother: It's not Smith, it's Jones. I didn't take my husband's name. Me: (making note in my gradebook of the umpteenth student with parents with different names) I apologize, Ms. Jones. I wanted to talk to you about Bobby's behavior in class today...
It made letters home interesting, too, as you can no longer use a mail merge for "Mr. & Mrs. <Last Name>"... instead having to opt for the more impersonal, "Parent or Guardian".
And again, it seems divisive. Everyone is a Smith, but the mother is a Jones? Doesn't that at least subconsiously set her apart from the rest of the family unit?
My friend's parents would still be okay with being called Mr. and Mrs. A even though her last name was G.
I don't find it divisive at all. Plus, changing her name kinda sets her apart from her own family, if you want to look at it that way.
posted
Very rambling post follows. I had a lot of thoughts come together and I'm posting on my lunch hour, so it's not as well organized as I'd like.
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow:
My concern is that I'm really the last chance for my name to continue.
This is a concern that I don't really relate to. Perhaps because of the way I was raised... I'm not sure why, but the idea that one's NAME must live on just doesn't resonate with me at all.
I know it's important to others - my grandparents showed a lot of preference for my brother (they had 5 granddaughters, but he was the only grandson) for instance, and my former mother in law definitely preferred grandsons. I was extremely offended after the birth of my 5th child, my 4th daughter. She was the most perfect, most beautiful baby girl you'd ever hope to see, and my MIL told people in my presence that she was disappointed that the baby wasn't a boy.
Having said that, I do understand how one's name is related to one's identity.
When I married, I took my husband's last name. When we divorced, I kept his name, since I had some issues with my dad that were unresolved. When I remarried, I took my 2nd husband's name (we had no children)... my college diploma has that name on it. After my second divorce, I went back to my maiden name. I haven't totally resolved my issues with my father. I decided to skip a generation and take my grandfather's name (which of course is the same as my father's) because I certainly have no issues with him.
For a while, I considered taking my mother's maiden name, but I never knew those grandparents, and I never knew my mother by that name, so I decided against it (even though it would have put me at the beginning of the alphabet for the first time in my life... I grew up as a W and married a W).
When I was dealing with all of the paperwork for my name change after my second divorce, I decided I'd never go through that again. If I ever marry again, I'll keep my name as it is. Of course, I'm exceedingly unlikely to ever have any more children, so that's not a concern.
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
My Aunt got married after she had passed the bar and graduated college and all that fun stuff... She was adamant about keeping her maiden name (and we do have a cool last name... : ) ).
She swore she was going to keep it in terms of everything... Now they've got three boys in grammar school and she has become Mrs. H/Coach H. I don't think she minds now... It just became a part of her. Although legally she's still got her maiden name and her law practice is in her maiden name, to the kids and the teachers, she's got the married into last name. : )
quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Take for example a student I had. His father's last name was Schnitzer, and his mother's was Zipple. They just *had* to hyphenate. Made for an interesting childhood as a Zipple-Schnitzer.
In another example, I saw a name at work that was Zito-Gurdag. Heck of a combo there.
As someone said earlier, what if these two met and got married? Do the kids become Zipple-Shnitzers, or Zito-Gurdags? Do they become Zito-Gurdag-Zipple-Schnitzers? Or is it Zipple-Zito or Schnitzer-Gurdag? Or some other combination?
And what if Mary Zipple-Schnitzer-Zito-Gurdag marries another hyphenate?
You MUST be practicing to be the next Dr. Suess.
*giggling*
The pictures in my mind's-eye are incredible. What a pity I'm not an artist, otherwise I'd encourage you to write a book on that there scenario, and I'd illustrate.
posted
Aren't you also Latina? As per Icky's previous post, I've known a lot of people with, like, ten names.
quote:When I was dealing with all of the paperwork for my name change after my second divorce, I decided I'd never go through that again. If I ever marry again, I'll keep my name as it is. Of course, I'm exceedingly unlikely to ever have any more children, so that's not a concern.
I think that was a contributing factor in my mom's decision to keep her maiden name when she married my dad-- she'd been married before, and she had hassles with the paperwork (her OT license was in one name, her nursing license in another, etc.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
It's pretty common to have five or more names here, too - whether Muslim, Sinhalese, or Tamil. The Burghers, though, are two or three, including surname.
Some Tamils have their family name at the beginning of the name, like Smith John Adam, but others have it at both the beginning and the end, like Smith John Adam Smith. But the names are usually three or more syllables, each, so they get pretty unwieldy. And difficult to pronounce for us foreigners. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
We typically only keep the two last names, unless there's some royalty back there you're trying not to lose.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by pH: I have one first, one middle, and one last name as well.
I have 2 firsts and 2 middles. Most American Jews do.
That depends on generation (among other things). I just have the one first and middle name, as do my kids. Among those currently between 30 and 15 (a group whose legal names and names they go by I deal with regularly) I'd guess that was true for about 60-80%.
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