posted
Oh, Icky - it was so blatantly obvious you were being sarcastic about Navoo that the mind boggles as to how someone could misread your thread.
Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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I did at least express befuddlement over the nawview comment, and quickly moved on to an example of someone who did think it stunk. Is that a word?
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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You seemed to take exception over what you seemed to perceive as a slam of Nauvoo (sp?) on my part. I have never looked at the bulletin boards of Nauvoo; I am simply aware of its existence and relationship with OSC. I am not a Latter Day Saint, and I know that they prefer for that board to be a specifically LDS forum. I have absolutely nothing negative to say about it. I mentioned it as a joke, since people seemed to be gratuitously slamming other OSC-related boards to make their points about what Hatrack ought not be. So, actually, I was making a statement I think you would agree with: that we don't have to slam other places to express our feelings about what we wish Hatrack was.
to be continued . . .
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Having said that, I think it should be possible to express ones wishes for Hatrack without being insulting, and have people's response not be "Well, go somewhere else if you're not happy."
Note that I'm not saying that this is what happened here.
I'm simply pointing out that, underneath the hurt feelings or whatever, there actually is a topic that is worth discussing here, if we can do it without making some people feel like they are lame, and without making other people feel like they are jerks.
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posted
I, for one, think that your comments were totally in line, Ic. Those Nauvoo-ites needed to be taken down a peg or two anyway.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Sorry, I just read the last three pages of this thread. I apologize Lalo if you saw anything I said as a character attack. That's not how it was meant as I have no idea what your character is really like. It's funny because I usually avoid a 'heated' discussion like the plague. I think this one just touched a nerve because it seemed like people were being insulted.
luthe: I was at the signing. OSC said it. I think he meant that he feels like he can always count on his fans being civilized. *******************
quote: there actually is a topic that is worth discussing here, if we can do it without making some people feel like they are lame
This is a valid statement Icarus. (And did I tell you how much I like your username?! )
So what do you guys think could be done to better the community? A lot of people have voiced that they "miss the old days" when the dynamic was just different. Do you guys want to go make the forum the same as it was? Do we have specific ideas for what we want to have here? (besides banishing the smilies, we've been over that ) I'd be interested to hear what people suggest. It's always an admirable goal to want to make something better as a community.
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Pssst, people ALWAYS say they miss the "old days". When I started, people missed the old days. A year later, they missed the days when I started. Now, they miss the days a year after that.
My girlfriend and I have noticed this in many things that we are involved in. We call it "Remember Tom-Toms". If you've seen the film Human Traffic you may get the reference.
Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
Maybe in addition to a book discussion group, we could try a discussion group based on OSC's weekly and war essays.
I've seen this requested on Ornery, and I think it would be interesting here. In fact, I've noticed Tom D start this type of thread on several occasions.
Posts: 2425 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I really love threads like that actually. I find that these threads aren't defined by how many pages they get to or how many posts or WHO posts on them...the fact that someone brings something enlightening and informative to my attention is part of the reason I come here.
It's also easy to see what the hot topics are. I hope people don't get offended if a serious topic drops off the first page really fast. It doesn't mean that people didn't take notice of it. It might just mean that it's not a hot discussion topic at the moment. Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I was going to go off about the multiple log ins, but when I really thought about it, I don't think it's actually against the rules. Or is it?
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posted
Trust me, its not against the rules, and while I can see getting a tad annoyed at it, its really not that bad.
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I just ignore it. If the grammar is good, I figured its Jon Boy. If its in someway self-referential, I figure its Pat. If its just plain weird, I figure its Morbo, sarcasticmuppet, RRR or all three. Posts: 2945 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
I agree with those who've said that everyone pines for the "good ol' days", and I agree that the forum is getting too big to know everyone as well as before.
But I think a big difference between now and the days we're pining for IS that we're getting bigger. We've developed a subculture of posters who come here for the sole reason of posting in the threads which have nothing to do with Books, Food, Film, or American Culture (for the most part--I concede that hugging is a part of American Culture, literally.)
While I'd much prefer if people would contribute a bit to the society as a whole, I guess this isn't a bad thing, necessarily.
I just wonder: Why? Why come to Hatrack just to post in the last post thread? I just looked over that thread and realized that there are no fewer than half-a-dozen people I've never seen before. All of whom have over 300 posts, and two who have over 1000! And while I'm still a bit of a newbie, I'm here as much as almost anyone.
Last post and word associations aren't Hatrack exclusives...why sit here and post to them when there are undoubtedly other forums out there at which they'd find dozens and dozens of other people who enjoy the same sort of posting that they do?
Then again, the more serious Hatrackers were probably wondering the same thing when I showed up.
Some are still wondering.
Anyway, I suppose we're all ignoring this topic and hoping it goes away...just had to voice my curiosity.
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: I just wonder: Why? Why come to Hatrack just to post in the last post thread? I just looked over that thread and realized that there are no fewer than half-a-dozen people I've never seen before.
That's a fair question. Why post at Hatrack when there are similar threads elsewhere?
I hesitate to speak for others, but I can think of several possibilities. First, just because some of the last-post-thread and huggers primarily (or only) post there, does not mean that they only READ those threads. It is quite clear to me -- from posts in those threads, from IMs, etc. -- that some of them read many "serious" threads. They're simply uncomfortable posting in them. (Golly, I wonder why? Hatrack has only been loving, welcoming, and accepting toward them?)
Second, some of them came here because they like OSC. (Is there some requirement that all of his readers enjoy discussing "serious" issues? I think I missed that memo.) They simply gravitate to the threads that appeal to them, as we all do.
Third, a good number of them came here because they had friends (from RL or other online places) that told them it was a fun place to hang out. I just wonder WHY so many "oldbies" seem to find it necessary to beat that last attitude out of them.
If I had to guess, likely for most of the posters in question, it's a combination of reasons. Many of which I've likely not thought of.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
See, one of the things that really bugs me about smiley posters is their utter lack of respect for people who don't think smiles and ((hugs)) are funny or endearing. And yet you can count on someone posting a hug or a smile because they think they're funny or they're just being a git. It is, frankly, extremely annoying. And you wonder why people are getting frustrated? I'm sorry, but if you're going to intentionally aggravate me I'm going to feel no guilt for telling you to piss off and to get off my lawn.
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posted
See, one of the things that really bugs me about smiley haters is their utter lack of respect for people who do think smilies and ((hugs)) are funny or endearing. And yet you can count on someone bashing hugs and smilies because they think they're cool or clever or just being a jerk. It is, frankly, extremely annoying. And you wonder why people are getting frustrated?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:I hesitate to speak for others, but I can think of several possibilities. First, just because some of the last-post-thread and huggers primarily (or only) post there, does not mean that they only READ those threads. It is quite clear to me -- from posts in those threads, from IMs, etc. -- that some of them read many "serious" threads. They're simply uncomfortable posting in them. (Golly, I wonder why? Hatrack has only been loving, welcoming, and accepting toward them?)
I agree that people enjoy reading the threads. We call them lurkers. I'm not sure that posting hugs or last posts is doing much to make many people more comfortable about posting. If anything, it makes people less likely to take them seriously when they do start posting in real threads.
quote:Third, a good number of them came here because they had friends (from RL or other online places) that told them it was a fun place to hang out.
Great. They're multiplying.
But seriously, I think the new batch is the only group to really do that sort of thing. I certainly don't know anyone here that I knew before I joined. Off the top of my head, I think Pat brought HDD, twinky brought BTL, and various people have brought their spouses...but I doubt they recruited them so they'd have someone to fool around with in the last post thread. I think inviting friends leads to the formation of cliques. While this is pretty much inevitable to some extent, I think (my opinion) that this should be a place where everybody can get to know everybody. A small town atmosphere in the vastness of cyberspace.
I mean, obviously nobody but the Cards has a say in what Hatrack will be, but there is probably a good majority here that agrees to a large extent on what it can be. Can you blame the people who spend a lot of time here for trying to make it into a place that it has the potential to become?
I mean, you know you guys are going to win every time...can't you just let us blow off steam? Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
So now I'm being classed as one of "you guys"?
quote: Can you blame the people who spend a lot of time here for trying to make it into a place that it has the potential to become?
Not at all. But as someone who also spends a lot of time here, can you blame me for wistfully wishing that the welcome mat weren't used quite so selectively? Not so long ago, I was one of these kids so many keep bashing. On some level I still am. And it hurts -- I really find it extremely painful -- to see them get pounded, over and over. To know that it hurts them too.
Especially when it's by people whose opinions I respect.
posted
We're very welcoming! Just maybe not to the people who sneak in without a saying word and start wrestling on our lawn.
A simple "Hi, I'm _______. I'll be over in the last post thread trying to reach 1000 posts by Tuesday so I can write a landmark post." would suffice. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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[inner monologue] Yes! Now people will know for sure that I'm funny. They'll say, "But wait—Zal is funny, so I guess Jon Boy must be funny, too." Ha ha ha! I'm so brilliant. [/inner monologue]
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Sitting on the sofa and putting your feet on the table is going to take gymnastic abilities though. And very long legs.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Ok, but I still won't own a table of a height to put your feet on comfortably. Unless you were planning on bringing one?
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
See, rivka's right. It can be hurtful to feel like you're not part of a community, if that community is one in which you wish to participate. So expressing opinions in a such a way as to cause such alienation is wrong. It's also ultimately destructive, because we do thrive on new additions.
Still, if you have a place in your life where you can go to be happy, and one day you realize that it doesn't make you happy anymore, it's not wrong to be sad or upset about it. And if it's not wrong to feel it, it shouldn't be wrong to say it. It is, perhaps unfortunately, inevitably useless to do so. Things are what they are, they will be what they will be.
------------------
Things are rather cliquish these days, though I suppose they always have been. When I first got here I was all starry-eyed at meeting the Hatrack Celebrities. Maybe the recent wave of newbies isn't like that (I don't know), or maybe I was just weird for being like that.
These days it almost seems like a Bad Thing in some crowds to have a low member number or a high post count. As if having one or both of those somehow means you'll be an elitist. But of course that's just as ridiculous as assuming that a person with the opposite traits will be worthless.
It's true that having a high post count or a low member number doesn't grant any real power. It doesn't even have any real causal relationship with a person's status in the community. But if this is a real community--and I think it is--it will happen that some people will be more influential than others. And, as in other communities, it works out that many, probably most, of those celebrities will be people who have been here a while, or have contributed a lot, or both. They have this influence because the rest of the community cares what they think and what they say. And it's not wrong for them to have it, since we give it to them freely. There's a reason that we venerate our Bob_Scopatzes, our Papa Mooses, our Anne Kates, and whether or not you like them, you can't really deny that they are important and influential members of the community. No, they're not better or more important as individuals than anyone else, but they do hold a special place in many of our hearts.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Saxon, you are the only one to have five spontaneous tribute threads in one day created in your owner. You are DEFINTELY a Hatrack celebrity.
---
Yes, saxon and rivka are right. Everyone belongs, everyone is worthwhile, and if you need a clique, don't do it here. Hatrack is for acceptance. We need it, and it won't hurt you to give it.
If you need Hatrack to be only YOUR kind of place, give it up. Find a place in Real Life to be that. Hatrack's for everybody, in whatever way they need.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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[edit: A: the clique I was referring to is the one including the fluffers one never sees outside two or three threads. there are very few others I see sticking to one group of people B: I wish there was a place in real life where I could get to see all of you...but there's not.]
quote:Everyone belongs, everyone is worthwhile, and if you need a clique, don't do it here. Hatrack is for acceptance. We need it, and it won't hurt you to give it.
Like, yeah man. Dude, did you just see that? My hand moved, but I didn't move it.
You're a hippie in Mormon's clothing. Embrace the Tie Dyed Side.
And I'd like to see these people try hugging random strangers in real life. Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
That's the point! This ISN'T real life. It's... virtual. Practice? You can't randomly hug strangers, but for some people, on-line hugging and real-life helloing can take the same amount of courage.
There are some very, very real friends that I have made here. When I talk about the virtuality of it, I don't mean individual people; I mean Hatrack as a whole. I only believe in individual relationships for reality, but Hatrack as a whole exists. Whatever it is, it needs to be a loving, safe place.
*snort* hippie in Mormon clothing, for crying out loud.
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) I'd be interested to hear what people suggest. It's always an admirable goal to want to make something better as a community.
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