posted
Ron, I can't find "mushroom" associated with "black pepper" anywhere else online. I was wondering if you saw it elsewhere, too, or if that was the only site that associated it with "mushroom," "mold," or "fungus?"
I still keep finding discussion of the "oxidation/fermentation" process, just like for tea. I think I might email the webmaster of that page, just out of curiosity. Maybe they have a cite.
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When you get to this page, search on "black pepper"
Here is a pertinent excerpt:
quote:Christensen (1972), over a period of several years, examined 100 different samples of black pepper from all over the world. In dilution cultures of these samples, the number of fungus colonies in whole or ground black pepper averaged 52,000 per gram/black pepper and the upper range was over half a million per gram. These colonies were mostly of A. flavus, A. ochraceus and A. versicolor. All three species are known to be aflatoxin producers. Some samples of ground pepper were caked lightly with fungus mycelium when first opened in the laboratory and with time, a number of these became solidly caked with mycelium.
How heavily contaminated is 52,000 to 500,000 colonies of fungi, per gram? Lets make a comparison for what is acceptable levels of fungal colonies isolated in other food products at the time Christensen published his results. Wheat, for example, that is intended for milling into flour seldom contains no more than a few thousand colonies of fungi per gram of grain. If barley has as many as 10,000 colonies of the same kind of fungi per gram as in black pepper, it would be rejected for malting in beer making. If breakfast cereals or bread were as contaminated as black peppers, they would have so musty an odor and taste that they would be too revolting to eat. Apparently, the natural spicy odor and flavor of black, as well as white pepper are potent enough to conceal the taste and odor of these fungi. This is also true with many other spices.
quote:Chocolate doesn't have cafienne in it. It's a slightly different chemical that does almost the same thing metabolically.
Chocolate contains theobromine which is a close analog of caffeine as well as much lower levels of caffeine. An average cup of hot Cocoa contains 62 mg of theobromine and 4 mg of caffeine. For comparison, a cup of coffee contains between 50 to 150 mg of caffeine, a can of cola contains 55 - 65 mg of caffeine, and black tea contains 28 - 46 mg of caffeine. The ranges are wide because of different preparation techniques and varieties.
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quote:If barley has as many as 10,000 colonies of the same kind of fungi per gram as in black pepper, it would be rejected for malting in beer making. If breakfast cereals or bread were as contaminated as black peppers, they would have so musty an odor and taste that they would be too revolting to eat..
This doesn't seem to be a fair comparison since black pepper is consumed in much much smaller quantities than breakfast cereal.
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posted
I am quite sceptical of Christian's results on fungal content of pepper seeing that the work is quite dated (1972) and has not been reproduced since then.
Below, for example, is the abstract from a 1984 which finds quite different results for the growth of aflatoxin producing fungi in black and white pepper.
quote:Appl Environ Microbiol. 1984 August; 48(2): 376–379. Aspergillus parasiticus growth and aflatoxin production on black and white pepper and the inhibitory action of their chemical constituents. M S Madhyastha and R V Bhat
Abstract Aspergillus parasiticus Speare NRRL 2999 growth and aflatoxin production in black and white pepper and the penetration of the fungus in black pepper corn over various incubation periods were studied. Also, the effects of piperine and pepper oil on growth and aflatoxin production were studied. Under laboratory conditions, black and white pepper supported aflatoxin production (62.5 and 44 ppb (ng/g), respectively) over 30 days of incubation. Fungal growth measured in terms of chitin was considerably less in white pepper than in black pepper. A histological study of black pepper corn showed the fungus penetrating up to the inner mesocarp and establishing itself in the middle mesocarp. Piperine and pepper oil were found to inhibit fungal growth and toxin production in a dose-dependent manner. Thus, both black and white pepper could be considered as poor substrates for fungal growth and aflatoxin production.
posted
Br'er Rabbit, the statement you quoted does not significantly contradict the one I quoted. The figures may be different, because of which particular samples the test was limited to, but the basic fact remains that black pepper is moldy. I also noted the clear statement that white pepper is less moldy than black pepper.
I have to comment on your apparent attempt to find fault with the report I quoted merely because the study was done in 1972. That may have been before you were born, but that does not mean 1972 was prehistoric times! For crying out loud, we landed on the Moon in 1969! Scientists were certainly competent in 1972 to make valid measurements such as those given in the quote I gave.
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posted
Ron, the basic fact is that your initial statement about the source of black pepper is highly unlikely to be true.
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posted
Ron, I think you have our Dr. Rabbit confused with someone else. She's a professor and a scientist, and she's female.
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posted
Ron, Yes I know we landed on the moon in 1969, I watched it live. Do you do science yourself? There are several reasons to question the validity of the report and none of them have to do with whether or not people did competent science in 1972. Since the work was done 34 years ago, there has been substantial time for follow up work. I was curious to see what subsequent researchers found, so I did a search to see find people who had referenced the 1972 paper or had done follow up studies of any kind.
I didn't find anyone who has been able to reproduce those result, which suggests that those results are highly unlikely to be widely applicable. This isn't just because the work was done in 1972, it's because no one since then has made similar findings. What's more, the work I quoted found that both white and black pepper are poor substrates for fungal growth, which does indeed contradict the 1972 papers conclusions.
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posted
You mean there is a Br'er Rabbit in addition to The Rabbit? Sorry for any confusion.
So black pepper is not a suitable substitute for agar. That does not prove it is not moldy. Remember that black pepper is processed in such a way that mold growth is encouraged.
Measuring the amount of mold on black pepper is not exactly rocket science! Come on, already!
In addition to a higher incidence of mold in black pepper, there are carcinogenic substances in it as well:
quote:Other chemicals in food found to be carcinogenic are: piperine, safrole, and terpenes (in black pepper), solanine (in the green skin of potatoes), and safrole (in some spices).
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