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That's why it's practice. Because I hope to high heaven you wouldn't be nearly that rude or hurtful in real life.
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Actually, Tom, while you never said you'd give Scott ten dollars, you did say you'd give "you" ten bucks.
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School is where you work in groups to learn how to create things in the work world as a team. People in English 101 aren't communicating for the ages, but they are learning skills to enable them to communicate. In families, there are relationsips between siblings and between parents that are models for how to conduct relationships as an adult. In business school, people work on case studies to give them the background to handle real-life business situations that depend on them having the skills in place before they are needed. Children play house in model of how to create a real home as an adult. Teenagers date in a limited fashion to learn how to do it well.
Don't knock play. Just because something is... practice, it doesn't mean it isn't important or real. You can learn to swim in other ways than simply throwing someone in the deep end of the pool and leaving them to drown as they may.
posted
Kat, had I had a similar reaction in real life, I would've responded similarly.
And then apologized, as I have.
Hatrack shouldn't be a place to say things you wouldn't say in the real world. I prefer honesty to niceties.
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posted
If you had done that in real life, you'd still be incredibly rude.
Only you would be rude to someone you undoubtedly see more often. You'd be rude to a friend, or a co-worker, or a family member, or class member - someone you would continue to see, and someone who now looks at you as a person who is willing to hurt. Fortunately, it wasn't someone else - it was me, and you're just text.
If you get the urge to do that in real life, don't do it. It sucks, and it hurts.
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posted
kat, there's a big difference (to my mind, anyway) between practicing skills--even practicing life skills--and a "practice life." In school you learn and practice skills that you will need in order to succeed in your profession and other aspects of your life. But the relationships that you form are real, the feelings that you feel and those that you engender in others are real, the impact you have on the lives of other people is real, and all of it counts, and none of it can be taken back or done over.
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And, quite frankly, saying this to anyone is out of line, rude, and very hurtful, and I think quite beneath you.
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Yes. Which means excluding people in order to have a clique of your own is also real.
*shrug* He's not? Really? He's a friend? A real person who'd be willing to say that? Does that mean I need to be careful now, because I'll never know when funny Frisco will turn and bite?
quote:Yes. Which means excluding people in order to have a clique of your own is also real.
I never said it wasn't. In fact, that's the entire basis of this thread: that the people on it are real and have real feelings and the things that we do here affect them in real ways. If the people here are just text, then we have no reason to care about their feelings, and so we have no reason to care if they feel welcome.
quote:*shrug* He's not? Really? He's a friend? A real person who'd be willing to say that? Does that mean I need to be careful now, because I'll never know when funny Frisco will turn and bite?
I don't honestly know how you feel about Frisco, but what you said is tantamount to claiming that he doesn't exist. I don't see how there can be any greater insult than to deny a person's existence.
Besides, you're being disingenuous. If Frisco is just text, then so are you. If you're just text then your feelings don't matter. But that's clearly not right. Besides, if Frisco's just text, then so are all of the rest of us. Then you have no real friendships here, no real relationships here. And that's not true either. And furthermore, if we're all just text, then we have no real effect on your emotions, and that's obviously not the case.
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posted
I don't know what Frisco's goal was, but it sure looks like you're doing it on purpose. If you really want to come off as the better person, that certainly isn't a good way to go about doing it.
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posted
I'm talking about you being dismissive of Frisco's existence as a real person. If that's not meant to be hurtful, then I'm genuinely incapable of understanding human expression.
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quote: Really? I'll give you ten bucks if you can name one.
I would like to point out that this was directed at me and that I still have not recieved my ten dollars *cough tom cough* because if you will notice...
quote: Sorry to break the news to you Tom but in my short time here at the Forums you have not exactly come across as the winner of the nice guy of the year award. Maybe it's just me who has noticed this but sadly I doubt it.
I believe I have named somebody and well, doesn't that qualify as "one" that has been named?
Hmm... this thread has become some what angry. Maybe I should appologize for throwing out the "mean old timers" card. I seems that some feathers were ruffled. I was really just trying to say "Tom's a big stinky jerk!" and "let us play too!" with out getting all 3rd grade about it. It's interesting that Tom didn't take much offense to this.
*walking away thinking Tom's not as bad as I thought Yesterday. Hmph, who'd a thought it?*
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posted
Look, I know Frisco's a real person. Very much so.
But I wasn't expecting what he said. I felt blindsided, and I thought, "Why did that surprise me?" Because I don't know him. I don't know what he's like in conversation, I really don't know anything about him. I've never spoken to him outside of Hatrack - not in AIM, not in e-mail, definitely not in person. I don't know hardly anything about him.
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quote: Whatever it is, it needs to be a loving, safe place.
What is your definition of loving, exactly?
quote: He's a friend? A real person who'd be willing to say that? Does that mean I need to be careful now, because I'll never know when funny Frisco will turn and bite?
Good thing this is just practice.
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quote:Look, I know Frisco's a real person. Very much so.
But I wasn't expecting what he said. I felt blindsided, and I thought, "Why did that surprise me?" Because I don't know him. I don't know what he's like in conversation, I really don't know anything about him. I've never spoken to him outside of Hatrack - not in AIM, not in e-mail, definitely not in person. I don't know hardly anything about him.
I know that you're upset. I missed Frisco's post before he edited it, but I suspect you have ample reason to be upset. It just seems hypocritical to say dismiss someone (and his feelings) as unimportant in the same thread that you are defending everyone's right to be included.
quote:None of your business, Kayla.
What's none of her business? The only question she asked is what your definition of loving is. That speaks to the very heart of what this thread is about, and since this thread is about the principles by which we all should guide ourselves in this forum, it's everyone's business.
Having said that, it's absolutely understandable that you'd be upset with Kayla. Kayla, snippy little one-liners benefit no one.
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posted
So typical of you Kat. Make accusations and run away. No wonder you don't consider this real. You never face the consequences of you actions here.
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See Saxon? It doesn't matter anyway. She rips people apart because her feelings are hurt, then ignores anyone trying to point out the fact that she is hurting others, too.
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Kayla, I'm not discussing this with you. I don't know why you jumped in, but I don't want to discuss this with you. You're welcome to post to the board and to post all the theory you would like - although character assasination of me is unacceptable and in poor taste - but I won't let you pick a fight with me. I'm not discussing this with you.
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Kayla, I am not discussing this with you. It doesn't help because I'm not discussing this with you.
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What a shock. Should I pull up all the other threads where you refuse to discuss things? It's quite a pattern you've got going. Jump in, be rude, and then refuse to discuss it. It's amazing.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
beatnix, you don't win, because all you said in the quoted post was that Tom is a meanie. In your earlier post, you said:
quote: . . . I have noticed there are a number of "old timers" here who believe that their post counts makes them something special and that until you can match their count your opinion is not all that important.
Even if we grant that Tom is a meanie, you haven't demonstrated that he's snotty about his post count.
-o-
I'd hate to think that people start assuming that people with high post counts are automatically snobs. Or that every sharp rejoinder is motivated by a desire to keep out new people. It almost seems like that famous "reverse prejudice."
I take it as a given, an absolute, that the people I communicate with on this board are real people with real feelings. I assume that anything I say will be received as it would be if I were saying it to the person's face. I know that not everyone will take it that way, but I figure that by assuming that they will, I ensure that I will be hurting the fewest people. Consequently, I try never to overstep my bounds with new people, or people with whom I am otherwise unfamiliar.
But, even more, I view this forum--or, more generally, the Internet--as the only way I have of communicating with some people who I care about, some real friends. Their lives and well-being affect mine, and I like to think that my life and well-being affects theirs. You know what? You're among those people. And I know that I am far from being alone in my view of this forum as a community. This thread alone is a testament to that.
So when I hear (or see, I suppose) you say that this is just practice, or that someone else (even someone with whom you are justifiably angry) is just text, I feel like our relationship is invalidated. If you feel that what happens on this forum is just practice for real life, then we must not really be friends, and you must not really care about me. And, if that weren't bad enough, it also makes me feel like you think the same thing about all of my other online relationships. And that's not alright with me.
If we're going to try to talk about how we should treat newcomers, we should not exclude old-timers. The comfort that we feel in our old relationships, be they friendly or adversarial, should not be a reason to treat these long-time acquaintences any worse than we treat new faces. If we are to have a vibrant, warm, real community, we all must at least be willing to admit that everyone is real and everyone has feelings, whether or not we care about those people or those feelings.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
"It's interesting that Tom didn't take much offense to this."
Well, no, I didn't. I contemplated writing a long response explaining WHY I didn't -- that you're either one of the People Who Stay or one of the People Who Go, and either way things will work out for the best -- but there's an even simpler reason: calling me MEAN is not likely to provoke me anymore.
Heck, I know for a fact I'm not even close to the meanest person on this forum, so it misses the mark by a wide margin, anyway. That aside, I've seen users question my parentage, call my wife ugly, compare my physical appearance to Jabba the Hutt, call me a "habitually lying weasel" because I used to work in journalism, and been accused of creating a cabal of toadies as part of a plan to rule Hatrack with an iron fist.
If I seem MEAN to you, I'm sure that's only because I am not NICE. I try to be kind, fair, honest, openminded and generous, but "nice" doesn't really fit. I'm not particularly gentle, either. But you'll never see me lord my user number or number of posts -- God forbid, given how arbitrary both those stats are, especially in a forum that's had as many incarnations as this one -- over anyone; if I strike you as being more than a little arrogant, if I seem to act as though I'm somehow "superior," I assure you it's only because I think I AM superior -- that, in fact, I try fairly hard to BE superior -- in ways that have nothing to do with post counts.
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