posted
I don't remember Ender being physically described, but I do have a very strong image in my minds eye as to what he looks like. I picture him as being on the tall side of average height, say between 5'10" and 6' tall, white, brown hair, brown eyes, and a medium build tending towards slender. The closest actor I can think of that meets my minds-eye description is John Hannah who plays Rebus on the BBC America mystery series by the same name. Here's a link to the BBC America site where you can see what he looks like (his head anyway). Rebus is the upper left caption.
Does anyone remember if he was described in any detail and what the description is?
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posted
I don't think there was much of any physical description given of old ender.
OSC generally does not give much physical description of his characters. And that's just fine, because you really don't need it.
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posted
I actually like that, the lack of description. Some people insist on it, especially SciFi writers, claiming they can't accurately picture the world without it (most likely, they're Lord of the Rings fans as well . . . ). I can't stand it when an author spends half the book with descriptions. I usually skip over them anyway. It's long, boring and unneccessary.
Besides, the idea is also being able to envision it your way, with your own characters and you own pictures of how things are, and within the realm of the author's world. He gives also little desciption of the actual things, allowing you, the reader, to use your own imagination. You can have your ideas of what the author's creations look like. Such as the "desks" - different people, I imagine, will see them as different things. Or the palm devices on the doors. I saw a new cover for Shadow of the Hegemon, with a huge round computer thingy, and it just looked . . . wrong, because it didn't fit with my idea of how computer consoles looked, but apparently, to someone, they thought it was that.
However, if most OSC fans feel this way, it's probably not a good idea for a movie. It would completely wreck most people's ideas and visions. Even if OSC works on the movie himself, creating the props, the environment, the costumes, and everything else, some people will still feel . . . cheated, in a way.
I don't know, that's my opinion. I'm against a movie being made, however cool I think it would be to make one, and to actually see his ideas. I'm afraid that my ideas would have been so radically different that it would no longer hold the magic that it does.
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posted
That is one of my precise fears of an Ender's Game movie. That among a few other things.
But, I suppose I should be encouraged at how well (IMO) the Lord of the Rings movies have been pulled off, especially in a visual manner.
I suppose I never really worried too much about what he looked like. As has been mentioned it really isn't necessary to the story in any way, so I just never really bothered with it. I always found it an interesting demonstration of just how unimportant physical appearances are in truly understanding someone (as I feel we are given the opportunity to really understand and "know" Ender through the stories).
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quote: I don't think there was much of any physical description given of old ender.
Whew, 'cause I was worried that I missed something.
Also, in the case of the Ender books, I agree, a physical description is not really necessary. Although, I do remember that OSC did specify that Ender is white and that his skin color was a bit of a shock to the people of Lucitania. I have read books where the physical description of the various characters were specified and did play a role in the story (the Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon is one where her characters physical attributes were at times important to the story. Also, she wrote it in such a way as to enhance the story, not interfere with it).
Anyway, as OSC does not give physical descriptions more than a cursory glance, I was wondering how others pictured Ender. That is, how does he appear to your mind's eye as an adult?
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quote:Originally posted by Jexxster But, I suppose I should be encouraged at how well (IMO) the Lord of the Rings movies have been pulled off, especially in a visual manner.
The success of Lord of the Rings is, if anything, a counter-proof to an Ender movie. The Lord of the Rings books are almost complete, nonstop descriptions. The movies were good because there was only one way to interpret things, everyone saw it the same way. Whereas in Ender's Game and ensuing sequels/parallaxes, the images in one person's mind will be different than the images in another person's mind. A visual interpretation might satisfy a couple people, but cannot do justice for all.
Also, in Ender's Game, a lot of the story line happens inside people's heads, their thoughts. How would you translate that on the screen? Half the books would be missing. Sure, you'd probably get the basics, but the real flavour would be gone. How could you, for example, know how fast Bean thought, the way he processed information so quickly and efficiently? Or what Ender was thinking throughout Battle School? (In LOTR, sorry to say, there was almost no thought on the part of anyone )
quote:Originally posted by unhoo Anyway, as OSC does not give physical descriptions more than a cursory glance, I was wondering how others pictured Ender. That is, how does he appear to your mind's eye as an adult?
I don't remember him as an adult, I didn't really read the books that carefully once the Bugger War was over. But as a child, he seemed more... personality, there was a feeling about him, rather than an actual picture in my mind. He didn't actually look like anything, just an idea of some character. Neh, can't explain.
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posted
I always imagined Ender with green eyes... hmmmmm... John Hannah is too dinosaur-like, too frightening. Ender is a comforting character, not John Hannah.
Has anyone ever seen "The Fifth Element" with Bruce Willis? Cornelius would be a great Mazer Mackham.
Cornelius is the one on the right on the site listed above.
I was almost thinking that Russell Crowe would make a good Ender. He looks compassionate and everything - I think he fits the description that my mind has created well enough. The picture of Russell Crowe on this site looks like how Ender should look, but without the beard and all.
quote: Originally posted by Morgaine The success of Lord of the Rings is, if anything, a counter-proof to an Ender movie. The Lord of the Rings books are almost complete, nonstop descriptions. The movies were good because there was only one way to interpret things, everyone saw it the same way. Whereas in Ender's Game and ensuing sequels/parallaxes, the images in one person's mind will be different than the images in another person's mind. A visual interpretation might satisfy a couple people, but cannot do justice for all.
Also, in Ender's Game, a lot of the story line happens inside people's heads, their thoughts. How would you translate that on the screen? Half the books would be missing. Sure, you'd probably get the basics, but the real flavour would be gone. How could you, for example, know how fast Bean thought, the way he processed information so quickly and efficiently? Or what Ender was thinking throughout Battle School? (In LOTR, sorry to say, there was almost no thought on the part of anyone )
I suppose my best reply would simply be to quote myself:
quote: Originally posted by Jexxster That is one of my precise fears of an Ender's Game movie. That among a few other things.
That being said, I have never, ever wanted to see a movie of Ender's Game, and still don't.
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quote: I was almost thinking that Russell Crowe would make a good Ender.
Yes! I think the way he appeared in the movie "A Beautiful Mind" works really well for the way I imagine him to look, wieczorek. I don't know why I didn't think of Crowe in the first place as he more than Hannah fits my mental image. Also, I didn't think of John Hannah as being sinister looking, but maybe that would make him a good Peter.
Jexxster, I never said that Ender should be a movie, although I think there has been mention of just such a movie in the works. I'm just doing my own speculation as to what I think the adult Ender looks like as I mentally built his image while reading SftD. As I wondered how other readers pictured him I thought it would be interesting to query this bboard.
posted
Are we talking about Speaker of the Dead Ender, or Xenocide/Children of the Mind Ender? In Speaker, he was about 30 or 35, if I remember correctly, so he wouldn't have grey hair. I also remember OSC saying he was slim and white. In Xenocide, OSC said he did have some wrinkles and grey hair, but he didn't look old, which is more of a compassion thing than anything else.
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posted
Well (trying to be more on topic, sorry unohoo. BTW the movie comments were not directed towards you) I suppose I honestly never really bothered to try to actually visualize him all that much, other than have a decent idea of his age to appropriately keep that in mind.
More than anything, I just pictured his eyes. Full of wisdom and understanding, as well as longing for a life he never could have, but always sort of wanted. And fair, I always saw him as a very fair and just person. Insightful. Yea, I know these aren't real physical characteristics, but some you can see in the countenance of a person, and I could always see those things in Ender in my mind's eye.
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posted
Although aging is inevitable at this point, I don't like to think of Ender as being "old". The first image I will always see when Ender is mentioned is the 6-10 year old image. But I can also envision him as a 30 year old, although I prefer him to stay young.
Has anyone ever thought about this? Valentine is always mild except when it comes to protecting Ender. She has always been so timid and meek - perfect for defeating the buggers like Ender, just too meek and mild. In the Speaker series, Valentine is kind of not as nice as she was as a child. Do you think this was because of her time as Demosthenes? Why is she so different as an adult? I know that people change, but this is a radical change - she went from one side of the room to the middle...does that make sense?
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down"
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posted
Da_Goat - I think I'm first thinking of him in SftD in terms of my visualization for this post. Of course, to be complete, I should actually visualize him as a child (6-10), then as a mature adult (30-40), and lastly as an older adult (young 60's appearance).
In fact I have visualized him in all three ages as presented in the books. While Card concentrates on his more meaningful attributes, intelligence, compassion, reason, etc., he gives us little in terms of the more surface attributes other than he is white and physically normal, not too heavy and not too skinny. I guess, as a visual person, I have a tendency to build a physical image in my head so that I can visualize the action as I read.
Interestingly, Card does spend a bit of ink on the physical attributes of the pecuninos and the buggers, so he recognizes the importance that the reader can picture the characters and their actions as the book is read. He doesn't have to fill in much detail about the humans as we all know what humans look like, but he does describe certain individuals when it is important for the reader to have a specific mental image in mind. I guess he did not think that this was terribly important for the main character, Ender.
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posted
I always thought of adult Ender as a little on the short side, with a round head and old eyes if you know what I mean. I've always pictured him with a buzz-cut or just really short hair too. I think he has medium brown hair and brown eyes.
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quote: it's probably not a good idea for a movie. It would completely wreck most people's ideas and visions. Even if OSC works on the movie himself, creating the props, the environment, the costumes, and everything else, some people will still feel . . . cheated, in a way.
You know, I still don't understand why so many people feel this way. How does making a movie take anything away from what you have gotten out of the books? If things look different in the movie than how you imagine, you aren't forced to change your views.
Take Dune for example. There's the 80's movie, and the SciFi channel version. Both have pretty striking but very different visuals. But when I read the books, I imagine many things different than how they are in either movie.
But is this normal? My wife is always telling me that I don't think/perceive quite like a normal person. For most people, would seeing a movie on it hijack their visual perception of the characters and places?
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That's how my friend felt about the Harry Potter movies - she read the books before the movies came out and she loathes their existence. But when the LOTR movies came out she didn't want to wait another second to see them. It seems silly to me, but what is silliness but one's own perception of the word??
quote: The success of Lord of the Rings is, if anything, a counter-proof to an Ender movie. The Lord of the Rings books are almost complete, nonstop descriptions. The movies were good because there was only one way to interpret things, everyone saw it the same way.
While there is some truth to this, there is more to it. There is a lot of description in the books, but to have everybody see it the same way, the books would have to be ten times or 100 times longer. It would be like defining engineering specifications for the characters.
I think that many Tolkien fans see things the same way because of the Tolkien artwork that has been made over the years. There is diversity in this artwork, but some of it has clearly risen to the top, and the movie makers based a lot of those visuals on those paintings, and even using some of those same artists.
Take Luthien for example. I think that many Tolkien fans have a fairly simular image of her based on some of the more popular paintings. If you do a google image search for luthien, you'll find many that are very similar, but some that are quite different. (http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/morrill/beren-luthien.jpg being an example of one that is quite different)
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- it's probably not a good idea for a movie. It would completely wreck most people's ideas and visions. Even if OSC works on the movie himself, creating the props, the environment, the costumes, and everything else, some people will still feel . . . cheated, in a way.
You know, I still don't understand why so many people feel this way. How does making a movie take anything away from what you have gotten out of the books? If things look different in the movie than how you imagine, you aren't forced to change your views.
I pretty much agree with you mr_porteiro_head regarding movies where the visual is different from what I conceived when I read the books. Therefore, it wouldn't bother me if they decided to cast the adult Ender as say Billy Bob Thornton. It is the story line that is the most important factor, so if that is intact, then the visuals can differ radically from what I imagined. I had the experience of reading "The Passion of Artemisia" by Susan Vreeland and then taking the DVD out. The movie was nothing like the book, in fact, I felt it misrepresented the book so much as to be a completely different story. I could not watch the movie because I absolutely loved the book which is about a real life artist, Artemisia Gentileschi (aka Artemisia di Lomi) written as a memoir as Vreeland imagined Artemisia's life throught the artist's eyes. She stayed true to Artemisia's real biography, whereas the movie was nothing like it at all. My mate stayed with the movie and he really liked it, but he also did not read the book.
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