Alright, two quotes from the first 3 chapters of this new addition to the series:
quote: Well, poor fools, you're the heirs of nothing. Because I know where Achilles' true heir is.
She patted her stomach, though that was a dangerous thing to do, what with her puking at a moment's notice ever since the pregnancy really took hold. She didn't show yet, and when she did, it was a fifty-fifty chance whether Bob would throw her out or keep her and accept the child as his own. Bob knew he couldn't father children -- they'd had enough tests -- and there was no point in pretending since he'd ask for a DNA test and then he'd know anyway.
And she had sworn never to tell that she had received an implant after all.
-- Chapter Two, SotG
annnnnnd
quote: As to your second request, of course we will continue to study your DNA, my friend, whether any of your missing embryos are found or not. What was done once can be done again, and Volescu's mistakes may be repeated with some other genetic alteration in the future.
-- Chapter Two 'Email' to JuliBean from Howard the Bio Guy, SotG
In the book they appear in the opposite order.. Anyway. Clearly, or possibly misleadingly, what I see is that Achilles used one of the Bean/Petra Embryos for himself, added his DNA or something of the sort too it. -- So is this going to be a Beanetrachilles baby we should be expecting? I wonder what it's name will be.. And who will claim the child after it's birth? What nation was Achilles connected to at the end of Puppets? I forgot.. - Will the kid go along with it? Petra and Achilles' stubborness and agressive attitude combined with Bean's ultra intelligence.. it's a scary thought.. and if they messed with the chromosomes again.. ---- Any thoughts? Anything I missed?
That was my main purpose for this thread.. But I continue to rant on like a moron after this, so you can skip that if you want. Thanks for your time.
Oh- another thing, just because i'm overly skeptical--- Bob left for work as the night shift manager of his grocery store.. she was watching TV for a good while.. she packed four boxes of belonings, at least, packed her car, spent a half hour revising letters to Bob- then she decided just to go there- she went, and moved a cart cause i was blocking a car slot - How many cars would really be at a grocery store in a pointless town at night? I know it's her habit, but the wording made it sound like it was taking up something worth unblocking. -
quote:On the way in from the parking lot she took a cart that someone had left blocking a parking space and pushed it into the store.
Chapter Two, Shadow of the Goat
The place was still open.. and there was a frozen food truck there that got there late cause of a break down on the way. - So it must've been going for awhile.. okay, maybe not.. but usually, and it got there at night? How many frozen food trucks make trips during the day? Don't they leave early in the morning to get there as they day is just starting to get warm? or do they leave late at night so they get there in the morning? - I'm guessing it's all trivial because there's too many different situations that could apply that we don't know about. I just like to gripe. - Ohh! and when she went to leave she turned one way instead of the other because it was all trafficky... traffic? at night?- I suppose one car could be considered traffic though... Oh well! I only got 3 chapters to look at and I felt like doing that one.. cause I hate that Randi chick.. *gaspers* - The baby is going to be Bean's 'Shadow' isn't it? That makes sense- and it will end up being on the Hegemon's side and be sent off to theplanet Path.. and because of it's genes and stuff it will be the source of the OCD problem!
posted
I'm not sure it implies Achilles is a genetic father. Rather what I thought happened was Achilles conviced this women that this embryo was his when in fact its Beans. I could be wrong. Even if I'm wrong why would Achilles even need to insert his DNA into Bean's and Petra's embryo? They can just repeat the process that made Bean in the first place. If Achilles really wanted a heir he could just make his own.
posted
But would Achilles be satisfied with raising one of their kid's? -- wouldn't he want himself to be a part of it? If he considers himself to be superior to Delphiki... Hmm.. yah, maybe you're right. - i'm sure it doesn't matter to whoever is looking to claim the baby now..
posted
I thought the the book was pretty clear that this is Bean and Petra's baby. The only thing Achilles did was convince the woman that it was actually his baby.
Also, in response to your question about the shopping cart, I've been so lazy at night that I'll nudge the cart out of the way with my car to clear a parking space right next to the entrance of the store. I'm quite sure I'm not alone in doing this and I think the woman was just being courtious to a future shopper. (Thus showing that she is a decent woman.)
posted
Is it showing that she is a decent woman? or does it show that she trys to keep a decent image of herself in her own mind? - Lots of people do kind things only to elevate themselves.
posted
Yes, like I said, it's possibly her way of fooling herself to think she's a decent woman. - I havn't come to any conclusions of whether or not she's bad yet or just ignorant, though.
posted
Why do you think Achilles would care where the child would grow up? He knew he'd be dead before the baby was born, and made sure that the "mother" would raise the child knowing the "truth" of the situation. Beyond that I'm sure he was just happy to have one more thorn in Bean's sid.e
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Quimby, of course he knew he was going to die, what kind of enemy of the Hegemon and Bean would come face to face with them, without a gun and a bunch of fake babies tucked in his pants, and expect to live?
That was my biggest issue with that book, Achilles would have a gun, if not a hidden weapon of some sort on his body.. sure he had Bean's ex-crew with him.. but that fact alone sould have made him wary enough to bring a weapon of his own..
Judas
oh, and no, I don't really think he knew he was going to die.
Posts: 132 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Achilles was overconfident. He thought that Suriyawong had betrayed Peter and was on his side so he never thought he would need a weapon. Who could've forseen that Suriyawong's betrayal was all just an act? Achilles was intelligent, but he also seemed kind of big-headed didn't he?
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
But that was such a big event.. I can't imagine him not wanting more power in that situation.. Did he not want the option of killing either of the two himself? Sure it would be a uge insult for it to be one of his old men to kill him- but hadn't it always been Achilles that killed who Achilles wanted dead? - Yes he was big headed.. but he wasn't exactly stupid either..
posted
Don't forget that he did try to give Bean a bomb at first, so that kind of counts as having a weapon.
As for whether or not Randi is bad, ask yourself this: how many characters in the Ender/Bean saga were actually evil? None. Achilles was probably the closest, but he was sick (mentally). Peter appeared evil in Ender's Game, but now we understand him better and know that he's just arrogant and ambitious. Ender said that once you really know someone, you can't help but love them as they love themselves. I think that Card has written all his characters in the series in such a way as to prove this. Some are misguided, or psychotic, but they all do what they do and believe what they believe for understandable reasons. None are really bad. I suspect the same is true here.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
One thought is how can inserting Bean's/Petra's embryo into this lady be a way of getting back at bean. If she doesn't know its Bean's and Achilles is dead how will Bean or Petra ever find out. I'm curious to see how Mr. Card gets around that. The easiest way arround is that it is actually Achilles baby and were all grasping at straws.
Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
No, I agree with urbanX. My gut feeling is that it is one of the "missing embryos" and that Achilles just convinced this girl that it was his. For his own purposes..
posted
Come on, it's definitely Bean and Petra's. Achilles steals their embryos, and suddenly this lady shows up carrying "Achilles' baby"? I don't buy that at all...
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Think of it this way. What if Bean worked for the other side? That is what this unborn child represents, an unborn superintelligent baby that may very well be raised to hate Peter. He's like a time bomb waiting to explode.
posted
The kid is born... he is raised by Randi to hate Bean and Peter, he's raised by lies.. How long can something like that remain a lie? - The kid will be smart.. he'll be another Bean just maybe with some Arrogance from the Petrakanian side of the family, but none the less he'll be a slick as a whip - and it'll only be a matter of time before he realizes the truth and turns the whole thing around..
Achilles wouldn't choose a female embryo.. do ya think? it would be clever..
posted
On the shopping carts, she is showing an obsessive compulsive trait of fulfilling her own private set of rules about how the universe should be. And I never doubted it was Petra and Bean's baby. Achilles always had a thing for Petra, so I don't find that too farfetched. And as others have said, the idea is for Randi to raise him to hate his own parents and their allies.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
We know that Achilles is really good at manipulating good people and convincing them that he's a good person, himself. I see this woman as a good woman who has been seriously misled. I don't think the shopping cart thing is out of character at all.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Unless SotG spans several years (and I don't think Bean has that much time), I doubt that the kid will actually do much of anything. Bean and Petra will probably find out about Randi, and have to track her down and convince her that it's their child, while she'll probably believe that it's a trick thought up by Achilles' enemies so they can murder his child like they murdered him.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Umm, if Randi were a good person would she have left her husband? Maybe, but would she have told him she was pregnant first? Maybe, but would she have told him it wasn't his? Maybe...
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with whoever was talking about no one being 'bad'- to a certain extent- I shouldn't have used the word bad though..
Anyhow.. I think i've been misinterpreted a few times within this whole thing.. but i'm not going to touch it.. i'm just really curious to see how everything plays out.. sigh.. next month..
quote: Achilles was probably the closest, but he was sick (mentally)
i disagree. achilles knew exactly what he was doing. he needed things to be certain way, and he ade them that way, no matter the cost. Randi isnt evil tho. shes just been kind of "brainwashed" by achilles. did he kiss her? Posts: 8 | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Being mentally ill doesn't always mean that you don't know what you are doing. The fact that Achilles could not resist the urge to kill (or have killed) anyone who had seen him weak or vulnerable, and never felt that he was wrong in doing so, is clearly a pathological disorder. I mean, what mentally healthy person would murder the doctor who repaired his leg just because she had to sedate him? That's just completely irrational to any sane person.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: Unless SotG spans several years (and I don't think Bean has that much time), I doubt that the kid will actually do much of anything.
Actually, that's quite possible. Assuming that Bean is about 16 (maybe younger) he's probably got about 7 more years to live. At 7 Bean already had his own army and he started late, Bean's child could probably become Hegemon in that amount of time. This book probably will span many years since this is the last book of the Shadow series, therefore Bean must die. that had no purpose
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that you're over-estimating how much time Bean has. In Sister Carlotta's final leter to him in SotH, she said that according to the experts, it would defy rational explanation if Bean even made it to 20, and that it wouldn't be a big surprise if he in fact died by 15! He's probably around 14 give or take a year by the end of Shadow Puppets. So...
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think she is a bad person because what decent human would be able to teach hate to a child the way that achilles would want and need her to.
Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Randi reminds me of something BUT WHAT!? It's nagging at me that self delusional all encompassing conspiracy theory. ITS NAGGING AT ME!!!??!?!?
Aside from that; The book is indeed going to span several years I don't think the kid will become Hegemon cuz Peter is Hegemon for a loooooooooooooooong time. Other than that eh... Do we know he/she gets Antons key? Petra figures it out is that there is no actual way of knowing and that most likely Bean was the only kid to survive because he was the only one with Antons key....... Randi is probably a good person but is hero worshipful of Asheel for some reason... hmm... Ya, span several years definatly. Course it might also be about Peter consolidating the Hegemony and the world under hsi rule. We know that Alai/Quatra (if you reconize the reference say so) has succeeded in ensuring that the Caliphdom wont be some puppet regime, what this means for China, the Second Warsaw Pact and the hegemony I can't wait to see.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:I think she is a bad person because what decent human would be able to teach hate to a child the way that achilles would want and need her to.
You're assuming that this is all part of some plan of Achilles'. I don't think he had time to set up anything too elaborate before he died. I think just found someone to stick one of the embryos in quickly so that Bean and Petra would never find it. He may not have even claimed that it was his. Randi, being ever so misguided, may have jumped to that conclusion herself. That's just my guess though.
As for the time span of the story. Like I said, Bean has maybe 5 years, tops. However, I think there's a good chance that he may die relatively early in the book, like around the middle.
Children of the Mind Spoiler:
After all, that's how OSC chose to have Ender die.
End Spoiler
In any case, the kid certainly won't become Hegemon. Didn't EG say that Peter was 77 and still Hegemon when he last spoke to Ender? Speaking of which, what I would like to see is an epilogue which jumps ahead decades later to when "The Hive Queen" is published. It could show the situation on Earth, and the effect the book had. Ender could then make a kind of cameo appearance as we get to read some of the exchange between him and Peter from Peter's perspective. It would be so cool to have Ender make an appearance in the Shadow series, and it wouldn't seem forced since it was established since EG that he and Peter conversed so that he could write "The Hegemon".
*sigh* 4 more weeks...
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jawohl, that is indeed what I would liek to see at the end of SotG and of course I can't also wait for a linking novel.
Posts: 1567 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: I think that you're over-estimating how much time Bean has. In Sister Carlotta's final leter to him in SotH, she said that according to the experts, it would defy rational explanation if Bean even made it to 20, and that it wouldn't be a big surprise if he in fact died by 15!
While, yes, Sister Carlotta did say that, in Ender's Shadow (I can't point out what page or even the chapter title but it's the one where Carlotta talks to Volescu) Volescu says he will likely die at 20 and it would be a miracle if he made it to 25. I tend to take that as the absolute truth since that book was published first. P.S. I never said the kid would or that I thought he would become Hegemon. We all know that Peter was Hegemon until his late 70's or early 80's. I meant that that is something someone with Anton's key could accomplish in a short amount of time. once again, no purpose.
quote:While, yes, Sister Carlotta did say that, in Ender's Shadow (I can't point out what page or even the chapter title but it's the one where Carlotta talks to Volescu) Volescu says he will likely die at 20 and it would be a miracle if he made it to 25. I tend to take that as the absolute truth since that book was published first.
True, but you could also say that since SotH takes place later, after Bean's growth has been observed for a longer period of time, the upgraded estimate is more reliable. There's also the fact that Volescu's estimate was based entirely on speculation, while the later estimate was made by experts who had been studying Bean's actual situation based on data they received from Carlotta. Anyway, there's no point in splitting hairs. We won't know how much time Bean actually has until we read SotG.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe shadow of the Giant means "shadow of bean" and bean will die very early in the book and it will be about the characters trying to recover in the aftermath. So it won't be really about bean it all, but about his legacy.
Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Neo, I see your point and I think your logic makes sense. So, as Kerry said, "I secede".
And, Mr. Penguin I would be pretty angry if Bean died without accomplishing his main goal (i.e. finding all his remaining embryos). that had a purpose . . . not really.
Posts: 93 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wow... I had kind of taken for granted that Bean was going to die relatively early in the book... I guess it'd be interesting to see him live to the end. I like to imagine that Bean and Ender talk again via the ansible, but I doubt it.
I, personally, think Bean is going to die relatively early on in the book, but somehow create some tool (computer program?) that will help Petra in her search.
But I could be wrong.
Posts: 162 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
They can't communicate with ships in transit, so there's no way that Ender and Bean can speak again unless Bean lives to be about 60...
But I like to think that when Peter told Ender all about Bean's life and how he helped him rise to power. It would have been great if Ender could have somehow spoken Bean's death.
Children of the Mind Spoiler
Maybe in the linking book Ender-as-Peter will do it after he meets Petra and/or Bean's descendents.
posted
I don't think Bean will (or should) die before he finds his babies; it's just not Bean. Bean determines to do something and does it, even more for his family than himself.
Yet another reason I like Bean ever so much better than Ender.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wasn't implying that; there's just a... singlemindedness Bean gets sometimes, and I just don't think he'd let himself stop until he found his babies.
Part of it may be that I identify with Bean and Petra. Kind of a lot.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ender and Bean talking via ansible.. Ender speaking for Bean's death.. - I don't think they are that really inner related to do those things.. i mean, not that it couldn't-couldn't happen.. but I see no reason behind it- they were two seperate entities.. besides- would nu-Peter even bother with something like that? When he has so much youth and ambition and the whole galaxy at his fingertips? - he's not an archeologist, i don't think he's going to spend his days digging up bones from the past. - New adventures, really, people die.
posted
Well if the linking book is still happening we know that it will involve Peter II as well as Bean's descendents, so it's not like he'd be digging up old bones, it's more like a ghost from the past catching up to him. Well, at least the way I imagine it happening. As for why he might do something like speak his death, Bean's family could ask him to. He is part Ender, so I don't think that he'd refuse such a request, even if Bean wasn't an old frined of both Ender and Peter.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I for one always liked Ender better because I thought the reader could associate with him better. He goes through lots of problems that the reader can relate with. I always felt Bean was a little bigger than life in his series. By favorite Bean segments are the parts told from his point of view in Enders Game.
Posts: 832 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
![[The Wave]](graemlins/thewave.gif)
![[Party]](graemlins/party.gif)
![[Hail]](graemlins/hail.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
