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Author Topic: Poll & Discussion: Bean to meet Ender or PeterEnder?
Brian_Berlin
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This is a poll. If Bean and Ender hook up again, which do you think'd make a better story
1) Bean meeting Ender before the Speaker series timeline
2) Bean meeting PeterEnder after the Speaker series

and Why?

Me, IFF there's a future meet up, I'd prefer that Bean and PeterEnder meet up. I'd love to follow PeterEnder's life and career further into the future.

Also, the concept of Bean's Children settling down at some point (space station?) intrigues me. In zero G - how big will they get? What will happen? Will his offspring play Adam and Eve and parent a new race - all with Anton's Key turned... will they continue to evolve? How far?

I've got visions of the "Dune" Spacing Guild navigators in my head.

The spice must flow.

But on the other hand, I'd hate to think of Ender doing NOTHING else with his life after the war but teaching college courses and speaking for the dead.

[ March 14, 2005, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Brian_Berlin ]

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Orson Scott Card
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i would suggest that seeing Bean alive again in any book, other than perhaps a prologue where he says good-bye to his children, is highly, highly unlikely. I pulled a rabbit out of a hat in Xen & CotM to save the world from the Descolada, but to use the same rabbit again to save Bean, for no better reason than that I like him, seems dishonest to me.

Everybody dies. Even heroes. So my vote is that you won't see Bean meet either version of Ender.

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Orson Scott Card
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As for teaching college courses and speaking for the Dead, ender is a dab hand at doughnut making and plies the trade every chance he gets, except on cholesterol-free planets.
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Azuki Bean
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Ender the pastry chef...ha! Who knew? It's a wonder he isn't 400 pounds...but that would make it rather inconvenient in the Jane-ship wouldn't it?
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TomDavidson
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Now, see, you would have liked Douglas Adams, had you met him. [Smile]

------

"So my vote is that you won't see Bean meet either version of Ender."

I still say the "throbbing, monstrous brain" concept might be creepy enough that people will stop nagging you for sequels. *grin*

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TheHumanTarget
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Assuming that we don't see Bean again [Frown] Is it possible that he might interact with Jane on some level, and that through Jane, Ender will have some interaction with him (either through a message or recording)? I hate to think that we'll never see that interaction as adults...
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Judas
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As for the Bella-Aboard -- what will happen is that she will recieve the cure, and her brother's will have given her the nickname of 'Plikt' - She'll know of her father's past and want to track down this Ender guy that's still alive and study him or whatever, so she becomes his student and observer and eventually his speaker.. - I mean, not much is really ever said about Plikt - when she first showed I thought she was going to be a big role, but you really don't get to know her at all.

-Judas

ps- mind you, everything I say is just imo

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AntiCool
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Heck, I was surprised that he wasn't dead at the end of SotG. The fact that he gets to spend any time with the Beankins in space is more than could have reasonably been expected, IMO.
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mimsies
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[Cry] sob but he IS my favorite character...

I wonder what he'd think of PeterEnder... that WOULD be interesting...

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Brian_Berlin
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quote:
Everybody dies. Even heroes.
Heh, in the fire service, there's a saying something to the effect of "Heroes are what you call firefighters who didn't make it out of the building."

(encouraging FF's to do our job safely and go home safe and sound at the end of the day)

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Azuki Bean
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Yeah, I'll miss him too, but the one person whose opinion I respect most about the series is of course Mr. Card's. So knowing Bean is done is almost a relief, he gets to rest.
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Proteus
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I still can't think of Ender as any other way than dead. Just doesn't fit into my head...

We want more Andrew Wiggin!

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starlooker
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Yes, but it makes sense for the cure for the Descolada to be able to cure Bean. Or his kids, anyways. Especially if you took him "Outside" a la Miro.

Unless he goes outside and it turns out, he doesn't have a concept of himself in his mind and disappears and what returns is... Achilles? Petra? Poke and Carlotta?

No. Really, though, no.

As much as I think you could save Bean or use the impressive advances of CotM with Bean and make it work, now that I think about it, I'm really not sure I want you to. Because frankly, his character as it currently stands seems far too similar to Peter/Ender in my mind to want the two of them to be in the same story at the same time. I mean, sure, okay, I'll accept that there has to be a strong adult genius male with a yen for helping others and a desire for family -- but Lusitania seems sort of overrun with them, actually. Peter/Ender. Miro. Olhado. Jakt. What Grego will someday be. The Filhos. Bean would be overkill.

However, the children are all sorts of fun characterizations that haven't grown yet, and spending the first few years of your life orphaned on a starship with your genius siblings is bound to make human interactions with other people... fascinating.

I'd like to see them interacting with Quara, really. They would probably be far too cut off and intellectualized to take umbrage easily at her, and she might experience some growth of her own in working with them. I mean, granted, she has Wang-mu, Valentine, Jane, perhaps Plikt or Syfte? as more adults that she can look at, but if I were in her position I'd be highly resentful and mistrusting of them, their compassion, their scorn, their advice or example.

Not that I'm saying that on her own she could cure them and they her of all social inabilities -- I'm reminded of Yalom's comparing putting two dysfunctional people in a relationship as tying two birds together, each with one broken wing and expecting them to fly -- but their relationship and interactions would have a certain something.

At any rate, I think it would be fun to write. And read.

[ March 16, 2005, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: starlooker ]

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Constant Reader
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Sometimes you can follow a character for to long. I actually like Bean's ending. It's a nice "ride off into the sunset" in a way.
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Shan
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The poor horse . . .
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Constant Reader
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[ROFL]
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Therese
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But why would Bean die, unless he chose to? In space, can't he reduce the strain on his heart, and prolong his life? But I'd love to see a Bean/EnderasPeter confrontation.
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neo-dragon
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Well sure, he can reduce the strain on his heart and bones, but that doesn't cure his condition. He'll still keep growing and will therefore die young.
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Tresopax
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Coinsidences should be used sparingly and only when necessary for the plot.

I don't think there's any need to have Bean meet Ender again.

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RunningBear
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What I wonder is if Bean or the Beankinders go Outside what will happen, they can focus so well, and are so freakishly intelligent, what would happen???

What would we learn about Bean/Beankinders Psyche?

I NEED TO KNOW!

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tmservo
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Here's the problem I have with him meeting Ender.. or ender really meeting up with mini-Achille..

In Speaker of the Dead, Ender points out he has voyaged from here to there and visited 24 worlds. He is now 36 years old.

So, let's do the math.. Ender spent at least a year, according to Speaker of the Dead on his first planet, which he visited at age 12. That makes him 13. Because this is before Jane managed "instant" movement, ships still took about 2 weeks to get to LS, and then at least a few weeks to get from here to there.. so you're talking at least a month or so in transport from world to world. So, let's figure 24 2 month voyages, to be even. That's at least 4 years. Figuring he spends at about six months on each world, that's 12 years. So now, 29. Trondheim he was actually on for almost 2 years... so, since I've already taken into account the 6 months, we only add 18 months, making him 31 or so.

I'm just struggling to figure out how you'd make a book that would have meaning that would have to happen in such a very short timeframe.. Ender could be involved in his travels for no more then a few months, maybe a year 1/2 tops, in order for the rest of his timeline to still stand.

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TomDavidson
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Maybe a few of the worlds were very close, like in the same system. [Wink]
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Paco_The_Insane
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how long a time do the other ones take place over? i dont think they were that long, except the big gaps, like the 30 years there.
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0range7Penguin
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One thought is that lenth of life is relitive. Everyone says that Bean dies young and what a tragedy but they forget that Bean was aware at an amazingly young age. He remembers more of his years than someone five years older than him. ANd without modern medicine, say three hundred years age, the average life span was only like thirty to fourty years old.
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RunningBear
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You must consider he probably spent atleast a year at some places, and made some very long flights so you cannot calculate his age using averages of flights and visits.
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tmservo
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I do understand (and believe) that he spent at least a year at some places... which would make things more complicated with 24 stops, don't you think.. the average of how long a flight is will vary, of course, but I tried to use the low average (a few weeks) vs. the averages as pointed out in SotG (ie, using the "old" drive, it took months to get to relativistic speed; which would likely be the kind of ship available to ender when he left his first world; a ship that was dispatched far before the new technology on earth came about).

But in doing that, it makes it almost impossible for there to be any wiggle room in how long ender would have before he reached Lusitania or Trondheim.

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CRash
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I thought Ender was on his first planet for a lot longer than a year... he left Earth at 12, had a two-year voyage there, and then spends a few years governing. I'd say that makes him 17 or 18 before he even leaves the Shakespeare colony.
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Jonathan Howard
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How about Bean delaying his death significantly, and he becomes the Descolador? [Smile]
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0range7Penguin
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Im sorry but its bin like two years since I last read the Speaker trilogy who is the Descolador again?
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archon
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The Descoladores are the somewhat-varelse species of alien that created the descolada virus on Lusitania. They communicate by broadcasting DNA (or other virii, I forget).
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TZM
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heh, Bean meeting Ender/Peter could go like this

Bean: "wait... Peter?! What the hell?... i left you on earth... albit a little older before how did you...

Ender/Peter: "You wouldnt believe me if you tried..."

Bean:"Try me..."

Ender/Peter:"well... i'm really ender"

Bean:*suddenly keels over dead*

Ender/Peter:"Um... I didnt do it..."

Beankids:"what did you do to daddy?!"

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0range7Penguin
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o ya
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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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You skipped a step
Ender/Peter: Bean? I thought you died in an explosion?
Bean: Come on, You know a simple rocket attack can't kill me, not with my Beanny Sense.

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tmservo
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Neh, pretty unnecessary step.. Peter knew Bean left earth on a ship, as he told Petra "before he left" and he knew the plan from Colonization as to when Bean would leave.
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CRash
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The first Peter knew that Bean really wasn't dead, but I don't think Ender, and thus Ender/Peter, ever did.
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Dannighe
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I would have loved to have seen Ender speak Bean. After all, Ender was prolonged basically the same way Bean was, but Ender didn't have that whole genetic anomaly, dieing young deal (which made me mad to happen to my favorite character, OSC!) I just would have loved to have seen Ender learn what happened to Bean, see exactly was that cocky little genius from battle school grew up into (no joke intended).
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cagreat1
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I've always wondered how Bean's condition related to the people of Path. They are somewhat similar in my mind. Is there some kind of connection between the people of path and Bean's kin? Maybe the same virus that cured Path could be used to cure Bean's children. That would also mean less use of the magic rabbit you talked about earlier Mr. Card.

The Descoladores are pretty far away from even the closest known planet to starways congress. What if bean's kids had some kind of contact with them...Bean did say (from my memory) that he was going to just fly and find livable planets...what if his kids end up going to this planet while the Lusitanian team is there? this would help tremendously with the translation of thier language.

...just my two cents.

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Taub
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What if Bean and his children are the Descoladores and the Desoclada was one of their attempts to cure their disease? If Bean and his children continued at light speed for most of their journey, they would have only experienced 10 years. Bean would most likely be dead, unless they found a cure.

And then... couldn't Bean use the the Jane mobile to recreate Petra and his other children? Ok, ok. That is a bit too far. But the first part could be right, no?

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