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Author Topic: Mr. Card's Fat Article and the Rejects of Society
Salah
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I, along with many others took an interest in the Fat topic...

...there is one thing I've come to believe and that is that the fashion industry doesn't like me. This to me is a bit more frustrating than the obvious reason of "I'm too fat, nothing fits!"

I have a body type that stores do not understand. I go into a "teeny-bopper" store and although clothes technically fit, they are just TOO tight. Then I go into a trendy fashion store with a plus size section and it's all too big! Numerous times at countless stores this happens, the trendy stores reject my size and the plus sizes assume I'm an ox.

There seems to be no fashion acceptance of a healthy medium, as though all of us that can't make it into the thin category are wheel barrowed into the plus size section, where there is no acceptance either! If only society could be more embracing of medium size. I feel like the industry is saying "either you live up to our standard of thinness, or go join the cows!"

Can anyone identify with this???

All right, enough of my chicky rantings, but men out there please hear this:
Just as your mother told you to be thankful for your food and not waste it (because children are starving in Africa), ALSO be thankful that all society expects of you is to put on a pair of jeans and a decent shirt- be greatful for that! Thank God that yours is the gender which values and accepts wardrobe simplicity.

There is obviously pressure for women to appear feminine and classy, the way men prefer us to be, and curse the clothes we have to find and wear to achieve that!...

...just as a reminder, not all women enjoy clothes and fashion, (even if everything fit me, I still would'nt like it that much)
Some of us would rather wear a long sarong with birkenstock sandals (NO, I'm not a liberal vegan) and just enjoy the simplicity and comfort of it as many men do.

So guys next time you look at YOUR simple wardrobe (hopefully) without a high heeled shoe in sight and put on that nice laid back garb, remind yourself "It's A Wonderful Life!"

(P.S. Forgive me if I've just stated the obvious, but old ideas die hard I suppose.)

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Dagonee
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quote:
There is obviously pressure for women to appear feminine and classy, the way men prefer us to be
I've witnessed far more pressure from women than from men on what women wear.
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AB
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I think the pressure Salah may be referring to from men is not direct as in "that outfit is so not cute" but indirect, as in not showing romantic interest is women who don't dress to a certain standard.

Further, a certain compentence in terms of fashion is generally used as a short-hand way to judge people's intelligence in American society. People who dress unfashionably or out-of-date are generally portrayed as stupid and unaware of their surroundings and societal expectations.

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Vadon
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Um... I might not be the one to say this because I don't pay much attention to clothing or fasion myself. For example, I don't know the last time I combed my hair. I just let my bed take care of it.

But, I do have a friend who does have a bit of a thing for fasion, so I'll try to remember what he says. Hm, he just will nudge me in the halls, start turning on one heel and stare at a girl and say "Man, Bob-Dawg, that girl is fine, oh yeah."

Yeah, that's what he says... However, I don't think he's ever really talked about what the girl is wearing, per se, so much as what she generally looked like. It is her that he looks at, not what she's wearing.

So... I'm with Dagonee, I have noticed it a lot from other girls, but not really from men. I can't walk down the halls without hearing. "Ew, her outfit is so ugly, I mean seriously." or "Oh, that looks so cute on you!" I never hear those types of things from guys, only girls.

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Princess Leah
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quote:
men out there please hear this:
Just as your mother told you to be thankful for your food and not waste it (because children are starving in Africa), ALSO be thankful that all society expects of you is to put on a pair of jeans and a decent shirt- be greatful for that!

You're joking, right?

http://www.anred.com/males.html

http://menshealth.about.com/cs/menonly/a/bigorexia.htm

An increasing problem in society today. And as long as "all society expects of [men] is to put on a pair of jeans and a decent shirt" is the most common attitude, we'll continue to almost exclusively focus on young girls as the ones who get eating disroders. So all the guys out there are able to starve themselves to 80lbs without anyone suspecting anything, while a girl who happens to not be that hungry at lunch will get suspicious looks and be gossiped about.

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Princess Leah
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But I agree with the rest of what you said.

quote:
the trendy stores reject my size and the plus sizes assume I'm an ox.
This was my summer clothes shopping experience! It was basically either HUGE kneeleght shorts, or little cropped pants and butt shorts for stick legged people, which I am not.
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Avatar300
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quote:
I think the pressure Salah may be referring to from men is not direct as in "that outfit is so not cute" but indirect, as in not showing romantic interest is women who don't dress to a certain standard.
As a man, I would like to say that I have never found a girl attractive based on what she was or was not wearing. I usually can't tell you if a girl is wearing makeup unless she has obviously overdone it ( a turn-off).

I often find that the girls who attract me most seem to pay little attention to how they look. And I can tell you right now that I will never notice if you're wearing the "proper" fashion, or have the "correct" designer clothing.

That sort of thing seems pointless to me, and the amount of money women seem to spend on keeping current strikes me as absurd.

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camus
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What a peculiar thing fashion is. It seems to run in cycles at just the right rate that we never feel content with what we have, or at least that's the way we're pressured to feel about fashion. We fashion ourselves in a manner that is supposed to make us feel confident in ourselves, but it hardly ever has that affect. Instead, for most of us, it makes us more cognizant of our perceived weaknesses while neglecting our strengths.

And it's amazing what we do to ourselves in the name of fashion. We kill our skin cells with the hopes of attaining the 'perfect" tan. We starve our bodies so that we can attain the "perfect" form. We do these things even though 100 years ago a starved body looked bad and a tanned body meant you were a low class laborer.

As a man, I do feel sympathy for what women put themselves through because of society's rules for fashion. And even though women seem to be more concerned with how other women dress, I do think that it is man that dictates these rules, albeit indirectly. Currently it seems that what society (moreso men) want to see is the female form, whether directly (more revealing clothing) or indirectly (tight, form fitting clothing). This in itself isn't necessarily the problem, it's society's perception of what the body form should look like that is the bigger problem. One of the greatest things about humanity is individuality. We have different personalities, abilities, desires, and styles. We are encouraged to display our individuality, but when it comes to body types, we are expected to have a made-to-order approach. Society in general forgets that the human body is an amazing thing, and like all forms of art, comes in a variety of shapes, sizes, and colors. We should be encouraging variety and individuality, not trying to supress it.

However, the sad truth is that we are very judgmental when it comes to appearance, and we probably always will be. Because of that, our appearance, and thus our style of dress, makes a statement about who we are. Sometimes the statement is correct, sometimes not, but it's always saying something to observers. So because it's a fact of life, we do need to be concerned about it. A doctor isn't going to inspire much confidence if he comes to the operating room in sweatpants and a t-shirt.

Since we rely so much on sight for information, we are always going to be concerned with our appearance and the appearance of others. The thing to remember is that appearance should complement our perception of other people, not determine it. Easier said than done in a world that relies on sight and that profits from creating and exploiting people's perceived weaknesses.

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DarkKnight
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Camus that was a great post, and as a man, I am happy that you did not say that men think women have to have a certain body type (skinny or whatever). Yes we men do look when we see lots of skin, or clothing that is as tight as skin. This does NOT mean men prefer a certain body type as a whole, because we don't. I will admit to watching the Spanish channel, and I don't speak Spanish.....
We just love to look, so we do. Variety is the spice of life, and I would not want a world where all the women look the same.
I really liked your comments on "the sad truth is that we are very judgmental when it comes to appearance". That is so very true. I mean if it looks like a duck, we will treat it like a duck. If someone dresses like a cop, we expect them to be a cop.

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camus
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Yes, that was essentially my point emerac6. Our professions may to an extent dictate the manner in which we dress and appear. So in some situations we rightly base our judgment of others on how they appear. That is why it is important that we are somewhat concerned with our appearance, because as you said, it can be a way of identifying ourselves.

However, often times we allow appearances to affect our perceptions more than we should. We draw conclusions about an individual because of they way they look, and we expect people to look a certain way because of our stereotypical perceptions. It's a vicious cycle that we are unlikely to ever escape. So the best we can do is try to use our visual sense in a way that complements, or make complete, our perception of another person without letting it dominate.


Your example of the cute versus ugly duckling is interesting because therin lies the problem with society. It's not about treating the cute duckling the same as the ugly duckling. It's about seeing two different ducks with unique and individual features, both with their own individual strengths and weaknesses. Just by labelling one as cute and the other as ugly, we've already fallen victim to judgmental thinking. Because what really is the definition of beauty? Sure, part of it lies with our own personal preferences and tastes, but how much of that is our own thinking and how much of it is society's thinking? Reviewing history we see that societies have different views of beauty, and even the same society can change its views many times. Has there ever been a society before our time that thought that an unpractically thin, starved, and unhealthy woman was beautiful? Based on the history of art, I'm inclined to think not. The definition of beauty changes over time based on many different factors. We let society dictate to us what we expect beauty to be and then we foolishly focus so hard on the inconsequential things that cannot be changed that we completely miss the wonderful things that a person has to offer.

An example is the character in Enchantment (forgive my lack of memory regarding the details) that had the crippled foot. Everyone was so focused on what he COULDN'T do that they never thought about what he WAS able to do. Every person has some type of weakness just as every rose has its thorn. The key is to not let the thorn detract from the overall beauty of the person.

But of course, much easier said than done. Oh, and Emerac6, I hope I didn't sound like I was arguing with you because I'm not, because I think we both are essentially thinking the same thing.

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Remnant
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Just a quick point-

I think that we are evolutionarily (as men) attracted to IN SHAPE women. These "standards" didn't come from no where. The variations seem to (some times skiny is in, some times voluptuous etc).

But overall, men are attracted to women who have the ability to bear children and PROTECT said children. It would seem that the more in shape a women is, the better capable they are- of course this is PURELY an issue of a humans as an animal, so we take intellegence out of the equation completely.

I'm an overweight dude- I'm married to a beautiful and in-shape women. Obvious mutual attraction.

Am I wrong for saying I have never been attracted, PHYSICALLY, to overweight women? I don't mean chubby. I mean very overweight.

Isn't this just evolution?

And further, shouldn't someone who is genetically (not that they've found THIS gene by any means) more apt to be morbidly obese have less a chance of procreation for the betterment of said species?

Just throwing all this out there.

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Salah
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It is so true that what we observe in other people is visual.

Communication is 55% VISUAL, 38% vocal and only 7% verbal, go figure, the eyes are the primary means of judgement.

I've realized that I do have a bias about the fashion demands of women. I attended a small, preppy, private high school where girls never wore the same outfit twice and whispered gossiping criticism if another girl wore the same shirt twice in one week.

Walking into that school was like being on a cat walk. This is NO joke: The guys would sit in a big group on tables and watch girls walk by in the morning and comment to each other. I of course, loathed that.

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Mr_Megalomaniac
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Sorry for length... and meaness

I wish I knew where all these young girls got the impression that it's good to be incredible skinny. Though, I do remember a quote from Seinfeld. Yes, I do realize I'm taking this thread where many incredibly intelligent opionons have been made and bringing in a quote from a sitcom. Anywho... when Elaine says, "...We just make fun of other women until they develop an eating disorder."

I think every guy I know has said that they prefer women who are "healthy." Not incredibly skinny and not largely fat.

Remnant "Am I wrong for saying I have never been attracted, PHYSICALLY, to overweight women? I don't mean chubby. I mean very overweight."

No, you're not. For what I'm about to say, sorry for using your quote Remnant. What I'm about to say is a bit harsher than how I really see it, but I don't know if I can get how I feel exactly across.

People who keep saying, "You need to stop looking at the outside of people and look to the inside of them." When talking about weight is probably one of the big problems in America today, because obesity is such a huge probelm today, and comments like that make it seem like it's okay to be obese. At least when it's looked at with political correctness or whatever else.

And I know that there's a lot of people who'd disagree with that and say that, "No, people look down on the "largely boned." Or whatever term would be replaced by, "fattys Well, there are many people who would look down on them, but with the horror that is being politically correctness, it's now becoming okay to be fat.

But it's not okay. I know that some people have extremely low metabolism, and even if they eat okay and exercise, they'd still be fat. But, my guess is that it's the minority of obese people who suffer from this. The rest, keep eating at McDonalds and do absolutely no exericising. It's a lifestyle that's doing it to them.

But what do I care about it, since it has nothing to do with me? Well, there is at least one thing that effects me, because of so many over-weight people in America, and that's health insurance. Health insurance keeps going up, because of this. You smokers are causing this too, so stop smoking, and you don't have to change your whole lifestyle for it. Just one thing. Put the cigerrete down. When you put it down then you quit smoking for the rest of your life, until you put another one in your mouth.

But what does the over-weight person care how it effects me? They shouldn't, they should worry about how it effects them. And what it does is, make life more difficult when moving around, or doing many things. Cuts down your life drastically and probably the worse, sets an entire poor lifestyle for your kids and they too will become obese and die sooner.

Sorry again for well... this entire post for those who actually read it.

edit
Fat people to me aren't the people 20 pounds over-weight and have a slight belly bulge, but the people who run out of breath when they walk from their cars to their house or just give up on walking all together, because it's too much work and buy a scooter. Especially if their insurance company buys the scooter.

[ June 11, 2005, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Mr_Megalomaniac ]

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kaioshin00
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quote:
We draw conclusions about an individual because of they way they look, (...) So the best we can do is try to use our visual sense in a way that complements, or make complete, our perception of another person without letting it dominate.
As far as I see it, the visual sense is the only way to make a judgment on someone you've never seen before. What else are you going to do, smell their personality? Taste their feelings?

The true way to get to know someone, of course, is to talk and interact with them. But if it's someone you've never seen before visuals are the only way to base your judgment, IMO.

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alluvion
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scottie isn't fat as in "moribidly and disgustinlgy" fat is he? I always pictured him as "fat" in the-

"phat-assed, sci-fi-mofo-logic-wielding supra scholarly debutante sorta fatness."

corpulent, but kosher.

corpulent, but copasetic...

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1135813
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Mr. Megalomaniac--

I did read all your disclaimers, so can you take this comment as a response to your post instead of an attack on your opinion?

My response to your post is: You're right that many people have self-destructive habbits that are within their power to fix. Smoking and patronizing McDonalds are just two of them. But don't you think the people in question know this just as well as you? You'd have to be stupid not to know that Smoking Is Bad. Thus I suggest that most smokers are aware of this fact, and the fact that they haven't done anything about it yet means that a) they're trying not to think about it, or b) they're thinking about it all right, but they can't seem to make themselves stop.

Both of these issues are of the sort that can only be resolved by the person who has them. May I suggest that vilification and sarcasm aren't going to help?

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Mr_Megalomaniac
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quote:
so can you take this comment as a response to your post instead of an attack on your opinion?
Bah, I welcome an attack on my opinons, since that's what arguing pretty much is.

quote:
But don't you think the people in question know this just as well as you?
Yes, I do think they know what their condition is, but they might not know the cause or think that it truly matters, since it's "on the inside that counts." But, that's just repeating myself.

quote:
You'd have to be stupid not to know that Smoking Is Bad.
I've heard some apparently intelligent person on a talk radio show try and defend that smoking isn't bad for you if you exericse. He tried to say that it could actually be helpful. I have no idea how many other smokers feel the same way though, since that was just one guy, but who knows. Smokers have enough evidence that they are slowly killing themselves and those they smoke around.

I have no sympathy for them, unless they are trying to quit. Same goes with the morbidly obese. So, if I see someone like this, I think pretty much nothing of it unless I know if they are or are not trying to change.

quote:
Both of these issues are of the sort that can only be resolved by the person who has them.
That is true, but we all know that they can use help.

quote:
May I suggest that vilification and sarcasm aren't going to help?
Yes you can and yes, you probably are right. I know that many drastically over-weight people will go to food to make themselves feel better and if someone did that because of my post, I am sorry, and I hope that my apology will be enough to get you to put down the twinkies. Sorry, I am serious, I just can't help myself.

And I know what this means. That I too have a problem that can have a negative effect on people, but I am making no effort to change myself. Though, there is a slight difference. I'm not sure if what I say is harmful or helpful, so if anyone out there has been effected by my post, please tell me, so that I will know. Though, I don't know if I'll make any effort to change, because well... look at the name. I guess that makes me a hypocrite, and I can't stand those. But now time to shut up.

[ June 12, 2005, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: Mr_Megalomaniac ]

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Wesley
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I'm tired of the COW comments! That is so typical for the media and the nets to put the FAT lable on cows and bycen, and bulls, and ox. They're not fat! They're strong. How can you get fat off of eating the same bale of heigh all day? We get hamburgers off of cow's right? Well meat is muscle, and so with all that meat, aren't fat, they're muscely. So the next time you think about saying, "Fat as a cow." THINK ABOUT THE COWS! Oh, and they make nice saddle shoes. Gotta love their skin.
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alluvion
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"scottie isn't fat as in "moribidly and disgustinlgy" fat is he? I always pictured him as "fat" in the-

"phat-assed, sci-fi-mofo-logic-wielding supra scholarly debutante sorta fatness."

corpulent, but kosher.

corpulent, but copasetic.."

the above is a compliment. just rendered in a unstandard fashion.

though if the disinglorious intrigue of "ice cream" continues to scream for more attention of certain writers over the well-earned merits of the mac, I may have to withold the scoop...

or insist on a waffling cone.

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katharina
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quote:
Walking into that school was like being on a cat walk. This is NO joke: The guys would sit in a big group on tables and watch girls walk by in the morning and comment to each other. I of course, loathed that.
This was my high school as well. I actually had a calendar where I kept track of my outfits, and would never wear the same outfit more than once every three weeks. Thinking about it now, holy crap - there's no way I could do that now. Heck, I wear my favorite pants twice a week.

The fat guy and skinny girl thing happens all the time. I'm a professional living in a city, and one of the things that has amused me is the 30-year-old professional woman with the early twenties guy. That also happens often, and part of me loves it.

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Katarain
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We're worried about health insurance premiums are we?

Well, while we're at it, let's vilify the sunbathers, too. They're carelessly sitting out in the cancer-causing sunlight, with no regard for the cancer I'm going to end up paying for with bigger premiums.

And the business people who work way too hard and end up having heart attacks. You know, there ARE ways to cut back on stress.

And how about all the women who get breast cancer? Frankly, I think they're selfish to hold on to their breasts for so long, when they could just get them cut off early. They make amazing prosthetic breasts.

Not to mention all the people who fall and break their bones while doing things like running and exercising. We should be so lucky if everybody rode around on scooters--MUCH safer.

Or maybe the insurance premiums are so high for other reasons.... nah... I think I'll just continue to look with scorn upon all those who engage in activites that may result in them needing some sort of medical attention.

Down with fat people! They're picking the pocket of America!

-Katarain

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Mr_Megalomaniac
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On sunbatheing-

I have nothing against people out in the sun using sun lotion, but those people who keep using tanning beds are only endangering their skin to cancer, and for what? To look prettier? They should stop that.

On people who work too hard-

They seriously need to take a vacation. I love those Universal Studio commercials. "Thanks for working hard for an early death, and remember us here at the funeral home are looking forward to doing business with you." Pure genius and comedy.

and the last two... now you're just being silly.

I'm not saying down with fat people. I'm saying down with the dangerous amounts of fat that's killing them.

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Shan
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Wes - it's "hay", not "heigh", and the discussion of fat in cows and other range animals has to do with the "fat content" - check out ground hamburger the next time you are at the store with all their varying degrees of fat content. Not convinced? Buy a package of three different contents, cook, collect the fat drippings, and weigh.

*smile*

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Katarain
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quote:
and the last two... now you're just being silly.
Well yeah... I thought I was being silly throughout.

quote:
I'm not saying down with fat people. I'm saying down with the dangerous amounts of fat that's killing them.
Look at all of the overweight kids nowadays. They're being trained young, aren't they? I think there's something seriously wrong with our culture and alternatives need to be made available--and made popular. Outlawing fast food is not the way to go...but more cheap, fast alternatives for food, and a culture of more activity would be steps in the right direction.

All this talk is making me really hungry.

-Katarain

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Wesley
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quote:
Originally posted by Shan:
Wes - it's "hay", not "heigh", and the discussion of fat in cows and other range animals has to do with the "fat content" - check out ground hamburger the next time you are at the store with all their varying degrees of fat content. Not convinced? Buy a package of three different contents, cook, collect the fat drippings, and weigh.

*smile*

I've done my homework, and cows aren't fat. I mean they very from cow to cow, but in ratio to other animals, they are very fit. (Freshman Colledge Coarse, Jhon's Hopkins University.)
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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by Remnant:
And further, shouldn't someone who is genetically (not that they've found THIS gene by any means) more apt to be morbidly obese have less a chance of procreation for the betterment of said species?

Ridiculous. In the first place, who cares whether the species is a bunch of fatties, or super-thin sirens? not evolution, certainly, all it cares about is whether the species is alive or not. If the environment is such that you don't actually need to be a super-athlete capable of doing differential equations in your head while juggling chainsaws and standing on your head, well, that's just too bad for the super-athletes who would otherwise have an advantage. Look at the dodo. And before you draw a lesson from that, note that humans specialise in adaptability, not flying.

But more to the point, the current obesity problem is occuring on a timescale that just doesn't register, evolutionarily speaking. If we maintain this level of both wealth and fast-food-obsession for ten thousand years, we might begin to see genetic effects. But probably not, because you get evolution when a species is under pressure, and wealth, by definition, removes pressure.

In short, any sort of good-of-the-species either for or against obesity argument is just plain stupid.

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Shan
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I assume you mean "vary" as in they are different, rather than "very" as in greatly?

And of course they aren't fat - they have fat content. There's a difference - which is what is referred to when nutritionists and health specialists refer to the "fatness" of cow's meat.

There are very lean meats, and very "high fat content" meats. And the way you cook your meat can also increase or decrease the amount of fat content in the meat.

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Epictetus
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I've got to say, this is a fascinating thread. I think that overall that the statement that we tend to judge foremost with our eyes is absolutely correct. As a single man, I do tend to look foremost a woman's figure before deciding whether to approach her and talk to her.
I think the problem is, concerning obesity, is at least partly the result of the way our culture is set up. We build huge suburbs that are not conducive to walking anywhere, we give school kids only 20-30 minutes for lunch meaning no real time for recess (elementary school) or to walk around on or off campus. We apply the same standards to workplaces as well. Our society has, in my view, placed such an emphasis on speed and efficiency that much of the normal exercise one gets in the day, like walking down the street to the deli or walking to and from work and school, is pushed out of the way in favor of running to the drive-thru for a burger and heading straight back to work.

Also, one must consider the way we view our daily routines. Is stopping by the coffee shop for a latte and a pastry a daily practice, or an occasional one? How much water and juice do you drink as opposed to soda in a day, ect?

Feel free to tear appart my arguments as well.

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Salah
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Ah yes, the judgement of others- isn't it just inevitable?

It seems to me that from a sociologial perspective, people come together in relationships and marriages based on homogeneous factors that allow partnerships to last, the most important ones being that two people share the same ATTITUDES, VALUES and BELIEFS (and often social class, ect...)

Howeverrrrr- weve all heard those sayings, "you reap what you sow," "you get what you pay for," from what I've noticed, this also significantly applies to human attraction.

Not to sound harsh, but for example, if a man has great discipline and works hard to achieve a strong, muscular figure, will he really want to pursue a woman who is flabby and sits around?

Like wise, will a woman who works hard to be toned and has strict eating habits want to settle for a lazy beer belly?
(Ok, well maybe some women who go after a man's money, or are better at "looking into the heart" plus the fact that there are more women than men but that's a story for another day)

But honestly, a fit person usually wants a fit person. And often, not all the time, but often, an attractive person wants a looker, because they know they can afford it- the cash to buy is their
being beautiful or handsome- and so, people in relationships have homogeneous physical traits about them.

Again, I probably just stated the obvious, but I speak from knowing a guy in this situation. He wanted a super fit and attractive woman. Therefore, he became obsessed with diet, exercise and nearly had adonis syndrome before turning out a completley changed figure. But he's now with a woman who looks like Jennifer Aniston, has abs like Janet Jackson and is a finalist at fitness competitions. (Meanwhile,
ex-girlfriends jaws are dropped!)

So now I'm wondering, (unless you just love to work out like crazy) if you work really, really hard to look good, do you expect the person you're in a relationship with to be the same way?

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alluvion
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"RISE!" says the Emperor.

"But, but... what about Padme?" grunts Anakin.

"What are you grunting about again?"

"Padme?! How'd she die? ... of a broken heart?"

The Emperor pauses for a split-second of real concern.

"No, you fool! She died of congestive heart failure!"

*Lord Vader balls up his fists in a weirdly quixotic juxtapose of rage and agony*

"LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDDDDD!"

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eyetell
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I have 2 things to say.
1. the Explenation of the latter repliage is desirable.
2. Salahs's phlosiphication of the attraction of two people is acceptable but incomplete with my mind.
A. You state that like people allways attract people with like habbits. When you know of the saying that opposits attrack. This saying goes unanswered.
You need opposite attractions in your mate that complete you and make you fuller. Plus two people who work out so much and obsess on their figure may not be the most high-self esteemed of people and there for will allways be lookers and getters of attention. This leads to shaky relationships that millions of humans obsess over constantly while the relationships are rather consistant and the interesting ones are when they actuallly work.
Enough.

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Salah
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From my observations, opposites will attract, but a lot of the time they don't stay together.

But yes, I believe that opposite qualities in a mate can help complete a person.

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eyetell
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quote:
From my observations, opposites will attract, but a lot of the time they don't stay together.
quote:
But honestly, a fit person usually wants a fit person.
Over 60% of all marriages fail. "That means a lot of the time they don't stay together."

And for a fit person wanting a fit person that doesn't mean they allways get them.

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Liz B
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I'm so glaaaad to be back -- I've been having email issues, for, say, six months and have finally managed to get back in!!

Salah, you asked
quote:
So now I'm wondering, (unless you just love to work out like crazy) if you work really, really hard to look good, do you expect the person you're in a relationship with to be the same way?
I'm not the world's best person to ask, but I'll give my input anyway. I spent five years of my marriage with my husband being much more fit than me -- then I started working out seriously and lost 60 lbs. (He lost some weight too but has since gained most of it back.)

The truth? I don't think either of us really cares all that much. I do work really, really hard to look like I do now, and my husband barely works out at all. I wish he went to the gym more so we could go together and because it would make him feel better and because it pisses me off that we spend all that $$$$ for a gym membership that he doesn't use all that much. I don't wish he went more so that he'd firm up some. I wouldn't have a problem with it if he did, but it's just not a big deal. At all.

Along the same lines, when I was fat he never made me feel unattractive (not that i didn't feel unattractive -- just that it didn't come from him). Not that he was working hard to look like he did -- just that we were a physical mismatch.

But I'm not really the best person to answer your question, as we're not a physical mismatch now. The only mismatch is in the amount of time we spend WORKING on how we look.

cheers

lizzieb

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eyetell
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Thank you very much lizzieb that was very appropriate and adds to my views.
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Salah
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Now that it's summer, A.K.A. a lot of babies being born season,
(I've gone to three baby showers in the last six weeks) I've noticed that it's not just the mamma's putting on the weight from pregnancy, but the men as well.

One of them joked about it saying that it was "sympathy weight" so his wife would'nt feel so bad about extra pounds and that he would join her in eating a carton of ice cream or a jar of pickles.

A nice way to show you care I guess!

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eyetell
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Wow, what youcan learn about guys from pregnacy.....
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