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Author Topic: Allegory and Authors
Θησεύς (Theseus)
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I would like to know if anyone has any ideas why an Author's audience often takes such an interest in the true beliefs and thoughts of the author about life. It seems to me that as novels, especially sci-fi, fantasy and other such genres based primarily on escapism in it's purest form - both on the part of the novelist and the reader.
No matter where one reads comments about Mr. Card's political writings there is almost certainly going to be the same old comment. Something along the lines of: "Why is OSC so different in his books to his more conservative writings in reality?" - or some such similar comment.

My real question I suppose is why people expect someone to write in such a manner. Often people use an imaginary reality or a reality that has not yet come to pass to explain things in a separate way to what they come upon in life. It is often a psychotherapeutic method to use the predefined assumption: "In a perfect world..." then go onto say how they wish thngs to be. What purer example of this is there than novels such as Mr. Card's?

If we were to impose such allegory on Tolkien, for example, there would be general misconception about his view on the Second World War. With such a precedent how are we still surprised when it appears that the writers true views in reality do not echo their proposed views in their writings?

This is, of course, an open question!

Theseus

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Blackthorne
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Well, I see writing as a medium to explore different perspectives and ideas, along with most aspects of life. If we were to not to use writing as an opportunity to explore the other sides of a story, or even a belief you do not share, what would we be learning?

Anyway, I try to write as if I were not myself. I, personally, enjoy creating characters that aren't just representations of values or people I know. It gives me a lot more room to let them grow and develop.

I also don't believe there is any kind of "utopian" world, even in theory. The closest thing I can think of would be a "balanced" world. With every joy there is a sorrow, with attraction there is a repulsion. There is always someone at either end. Those that believe in mass conforming develop a loss of personality and individualism, while those who belief in rebelling lose their sense of community. Finding that middle ground is the only way to establish a successful civilization.

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Orson Scott Card
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People have sorted themselves into camps, and often are incapable of listening to ideas that come from the other camp.

But in fiction, where the setting is one where the camps are not already established, people can read with more open minds - they concentrate on character rather than ideological shibboleths. They don't realize they're actually experiencing a world from the point of view of someone who has reached different conclusions from their camp about contemporary issues.

Hence the surprise.

What really baffles me, of course, are the people who "love" Ender's Game and are appalled by my views on the war against terrorism - i.e., that war is horrible, but when fought must be fought to achieve complete victory or it's not worth anybody getting killed or killing over. Duh.

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El JT de Spang
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How long does it take you to log in with all those greek characters in your username?
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Chungwa
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quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
What really baffles me, of course, are the people who "love" Ender's Game and are appalled by my views on the war against terrorism[/QB]

Well, for example, I really loved Ender's Game, but I don't think that the current war against terrorism should be fought in the way it is. (since this thread isn't about that, I wont bore anyone with my opinions further.) Or maybe I'm just more willing to accept something (victory at all costs) in fiction than in the real world.

But I imagine it's a little odd to write a fictional scenario, have people agree with you and then point out a real-life equivalent and have the same people exclaim, "no, you brute!"

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Orson Scott Card
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I absolutely agree that it's possible to like Ender's Game but find the current war not justified or not appropriate for other reasons. I don't approve of everything about the conduct of this war myself - I see some important strategic and political blunders, and of course our military has not kept careerist fools from interfering with the real soldiers' work, sometimes quite dangerously.

What I don't understand is that people would be SHOCKED at my political views - or that they would find my politics to be a reason not to read my fiction. That would be like my refusing to buy Ben and Jerry's ice cream because I don't like the political causes to which Ben and Jerry donate their money.

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Chungwa
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That makes a lot of sense. One of my friends seems to over-react when he reads your political views (to the point where he appears to get offended if your opinions don't mirror his). But even he still really likes your fiction.
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Puppy
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I think these overblown reactions are an indicator that this guy has a good point about America right now ... we've become so embroiled in even our most minor political conflicts that someone who disagrees with us is now THE ENEMY, and not just a fellow American who thinks a little differently.
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Θησεύς (Theseus)
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I really like Mr. Card's additions to this post, it has been really enlightening, perhaps that is why we look for secret meanings and things. As a Greek-Brit I find I have quite lefty views (for some reason we all have the same views - freaky!)but I don't find Mr. Card's books any less because they are different. I enjoy the books and I take an interest in non-fictional musings that Mr. Card makes. I find it odd that anyone could react so extremely to the seemlingly different views. If one actually reads the books I can't help but feel the author doesn't completely detach, as 'Chungwa' notes in many cases there is an almost hypocritical way people read the books. I just feel that people are paying 99% of their attention to why what is happening and forgetting that Mr. Card is writing in the voice of the particular character.

p.s. it's easy to log in with Greek Characters with Win. XP, I just press <shift> and <alt> and the comp. switches the keyboard to the Greek setup, then the same and it goes back.

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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Θησεύς (Theseus):
I just feel that people are paying 99% of their attention to why what is happening and forgetting that Mr. Card is writing in the voice of the particular character.

It doesn't help that Mr. Card writes his characters so convincingly that readers of varying political agendas relate to them, to the point of forgetting that one man wrote them all.
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Orson Scott Card
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You're right. If I learn how to write worse, then people won't care what my real views are.

By the way, I do delight in allegory in the strict literary sense. While I will never write a deliberate, complete allegory (like Pilgrim's Progress, for instance), I do like naming characters with names that suggest meaning: Beauty (of course), and Patience, and Will, and the many allegorical names taken from non-English languages.

This is NOT the same thing as having symbols, by the way, but I won't bore you with the literary distinction. And it's also worth remembering that I'm PLAYING with allegorical elements, not actually writing allegory. That is, if you don't "get" the allegory, you don't miss a single important thing about the story.

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Sid Meier
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Which is hy you have such a broad audience, but ya what are your opinions on the WoT? In my opinion there should've been a far greater emphasis on international police work between the KGB, NSS, Interpol, FBI/CIA/NSA (No Such Agency), whatever that German Anti Terrorist unit was called something 6 meh then on actual military operations which alienate the locals since no operation is 100% flawless.

Also compromise with Islamic extremist groups maybe the only viable option since after all you can't watch every individual or group without violating their rights to peace happiness and security of their person. Simple compromise, such as butting out of their internal affairs just buy their oil and leave them alone. Course the only problem in that is that WE HAVE to defend Israel, we promised them their nation and by Valen they're gonna keep it.

Then there is the little contradiction in American foreign policy your government says it fights for Freedom and liberty etc yet funds military coups to overthrow democratically elected socialist governments.

Also it is impossible to fight wars to ultimate victory because they cost too much! In WWI the war served not to strengthen the governments power but in the end weakened or completely toppled them compared to th wars of the previous centaury that expanded the power of empires. After all how much is it costing the US government to keep an army American or otherwise in Iraq, Afghanistan and other strategically important places in the globe? Isn't the American militayr budget more 400 billion dollars a year and they want even more in it dispite a deficet of several trillion dollars.

Argh I think I went off topic for this thread I'll shut up now.

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Jonathan Howard
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quote:
Course the only problem in that is that WE HAVE to defend Israel, we promised them their nation and by Valen they're gonna keep it.
Sorry... *Chuckle.*

But you've done us a lot of good in history. Thank you.

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TomDavidson
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quote:

And it's also worth remembering that I'm PLAYING with allegorical elements, not actually writing allegory. That is, if you don't "get" the allegory, you don't miss a single important thing about the story.

Well, I don't know about this one. By that logic, The Last Battle isn't allegorical, either.
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