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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » Cloning in the Enderverse? spoilers

   
Author Topic: Cloning in the Enderverse? spoilers
jongo05
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Julian and Elena Delphiki had their four fertilized eggs cloned six times each. Did anyone else think that was a little odd? They only implanted one at a time is what i was getting from the text and the first one was successful. Outside of it being very convenient to have Bean look really similar to Nicolai and for there to be a lot of eggs for Voscelu to steal, what was the point?
Isn't it also strange how much great the punishment is for altering the genome while cloning was fine. The wouldn't even publicly acknowledge that Voscelu did it.

[ July 27, 2005, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: jongo05 ]

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Icarus
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I think generally when in vitro fertilization is going to take place, they prepare a lot more eggs than just one or two, because the odds of a successful implantation are so low. At least that's my impression.

As far as your second paragraph . . . huh? [Confused]

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jongo05
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I understand that they would think the odds would be low, but then not only did the Delphiki's have their kid on the first try but all 23 of the others were successful.
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kojabu
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Were the babies all born naturally through in virto fertilization? I could be very wrong, but I don't think so.
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jongo05
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they never really explained how they came about, but i don't see any other way besides in vitro. bean's later kids had to be born naturally or was that just because achilles wanted to disperse them? this is sf so i suppose they could have been "born" another way.
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Orson Scott Card
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Nobody is "born" in vitro, just conceived that way.

They always make multiples when conceiving in vitro, because you never know how many of the resulting embryos will be needed before one can be successfully born.

Volescu, in stealing the embryos he fiddled with that created Bean, wanted as many experimental subjects as possible - again, to make sure he got valid results. Then, in stealing Bean's and Petra's kids, the idea was to get as many military geniuses as possible. Each one had potential value to the highest bidder. Then Achilles died, and all bets were off.

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Illidan
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Wow maybe i should have finished Shadow Puppets before reading that post.
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kojabu
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Ack, it seems my clarity goes away at 2 in the morning. What I meant to say: were Volescu's experimental babies born via birth mother or were they test tube babies? I don't know much about either, but because Volescu wanted as many as possible, it would make sense to use the method that would get the highest results.
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CRash
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A question I had: in SotG it seemed that Bean believed all of the babies destroyed by Volescu had been male, but I had the impression that Nikolai's parents had also made some female, "we wanted to start one of the girls next" sort of thing.
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jongo05
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which babies are you referring to being destroyed CRASH?
bean's generation were both males and females, 11 males and 12 females which were all killed;
the one's that voscelu discards when bean and petra see him in SotG are only a couple of each i think

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CRash
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Bean's siblings. In ES it states that there were four original fertilized eggs, two male, two female, which were cloned. But in SotG:

1. on Page 78:
"..."How I wish I had all your brothers," [Volescu] said.

2. on Page 80:
"..."as if [Volescu] were not the monster who cloned my brother illegally and then murdered all but one of the clones."

3. on Page 106:
"...Cry for my brothers who were disposed of by Volescu as he destroyed evidence of his crimes."

4. on Page 135:
"..."Compared to the way you treated my brothers..." [Bean]
"They were not legally-" [Volescu]

5. on Page 288:
"... [Volescu]'s been tried and is under sentence of death for terrorism, kidnapping, and murder-the murders of your brothers, Bean."


So, I'm confused. Were Bean's destroyed siblings all brothers? Or are Volescu, Bean, and Mazer just ill-informed (unlikely)?

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Sid Meier
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Typo?
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jongo05
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Bean's "siblings" were the other clones of Nicolai and Julian Sr. and Elena Delphiki. There were 12 females, and 10 remaining males left besides Bean who were killed. Ten of the 12 females were clones, 5 each of the two original females. 6 of the boys were genetically identical and the other 4 were identical to Bean and Nicolai. These 22 may or may not have had Anton's key.
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CRash
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Yep, I got that from ES, page 211-12, but why then, in Giant, do the characters only refer to the destroyed infants as males?
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heff_neil
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Perhaps the reference to brothers is figurative. Therefore he was talking about brothers and sisters but using brothers in a very general term.

Just a thought...

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