posted
With the right resources and political/social approval on the ground, I can't see why not.
There's geniuses all around, they just don't usually get noticed. Maybe they're smart enough to stay hidden ^_-
Posts: 70 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Very funny Zog, so funny I forgot to laugh.
But heres a new question if it could be done, what country would be most likely to carry out such a program? And for what purpose?
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
The thing we've got to remember is that a true recreation of Battleschool involves taking children from their families and putting them through a brutal training program. This is not ideal.
Of course, the Janissaries were very similar . . .
Posts: 767 | Registered: Oct 2003
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The American Army has no Enders, no Graffs, there is no one amongst these fools who has any kind of vision or military genius. The US Army has become too structured, too inflexible, more like the armies of Enders opponents in Battle School (which by the way is why all those armies lost).
The only advantage the US army has is the military tech that they keep so secret.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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The AVI file should run in Quicktime or Windows Media Player; the JPGs in any standard image viewer. Which one is giving you difficulty?
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Well for one that's a game that Zog linked to, not the real Army. (Though it was made by the Army.)
My guess as to why Zog posted that is to show how the military is trying their own little 'battle school' program for the younger generations. Kind of get children(teenagers, really) hyped up for the army before they can join. In a sense, a battle school.
And that is kind of a low blow to the US Army, and I do beg to differ on it. The army has shown a great capability for adaption under the different leaders that guide it. There are plenty of brilliant minds in the Army, to call all of them fools is rather rude, wouldn't you say?
(See, Black Mage? We don't need to result to flaming.)
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
The America's Army computer game is also interesting food for thought in its own right. It opens the doors of speculation into areas normally relegated to science fiction alone.
The game's makers maintain ladders of player performance. So what if certain high performing players were recruited by the Army to be a new kind of soldier? These gamers could sit behind computer monitors fighting as virtual soldiers, piloting roving guns on wheels.
As gaming tech gets more sophisticated, real killing could be made nearly indistinguishable from virtual killing. But would the Army even need to worry about such a distinction? After all, we're all quite used to watching war on TV, and popular opinion seems to be that each successive generation is even more desensitized to the idea of violence than the previous.
If the tech is cheap enough, and the fighting force is willing and eager, and it saves lives, why wouldn't the Army parlay its computer game into a fighting tool reminiscent of Ender's Game?
It's a rather haunting thought, fraught with moral questions that are ambiguous at best. And it sounds a lot like science fiction, but isn't that part of why we're posting here at all?
Posts: 6 | Registered: Jan 2006
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All I can figure is that you have an older driver for AVI files, or something in that direction. Have you tried D/L the newest Quicktime app from Apple?
The model was built on a Z-Corp machine. I went with a co-worker to a demo of Solidworks and the Z-Corp machine. They built a model for everyone who attended. I did the Battle School. My co-worker did a large "Escher's Cube" (you know the one: the stairs going off in all directions, like what they made for "Labyrinth").
Posts: 1862 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Considering it from the children-geniuses point of view, I think it wouldn't be impossible at all... I mean, we've already got special schools for talented children, and a lot of parents start "educating" their children very early (after all, it's _vital_ that they speak 4 languages before they are 10)... and there also are boarding schools where children don't see their parents for quite a long time. So Battle School would only need a special circumstances (like an attack of an alien race ) and a few (not so big) steps forward in the education attitude... We already have children who are brilliant, children who start learning at a very earaly age and children who are far from home. We just have to put it all in one and take it a little bit further.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Jan 2006
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1. Normally, kids at boarding schools DO see their parents and the like during, say, breaks and summers.
2. The implication in EG was that, under normal circumstances (and presuming they didn't get iced), Battle School kids *never saw Earth again*, and definitely never did see their families again. Yeah, you read that right. Their going off to Battle School might as well be marked by holding funerals, like Jewish villages in Russia did for kids conscripted by the Czar.
3. No boarding school is as disconnected from the outside world as Battle School is said to be.
So what's this all mean?
1. Battle School kids would have some interesting issues of motivation. Frankly, a good question becomes: They're fighting for...What, exactly? Someplace they will *never* see? An abstraction?
2. How, exactly, does a Battle Schooler learn to live in normal society? Cuz, y'know, once they leave training, they'll have to.
3. Some really poorly adjusted kids. Even accounting for the fact that we only saw...odd perspectives of the place, there's nothing like the normal factors of life. There are few girls, and most of them are probably of the extreme tomboy type, so these kids (who're mostly boys, remember) will have no experience, no base of knowledge, from which to deal with situations like say, the inevitable crushes and puppy loves (if the staff would even allow such to develop), their own hormones...And, frankly, would be ill-equipped to live in society, generally.
Posts: 19 | Registered: Dec 2005
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You also have to remember that these kids are geniuses, which is why they are in Battle School to begin with. In which they were trained to adapt quickly for all situations.
Posts: 503 | Registered: May 2005
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sure, I'm not saying we're already at that stage and, as I said, that would need a special situation, but still... Oh, and didn't Graff told Ender they get vacation in Battle School (the first time when they're 12)?
Posts: 218 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Zog: The America's Army computer game is also interesting food for thought in its own right. It opens the doors of speculation into areas normally relegated to science fiction alone.
The game's makers maintain ladders of player performance. So what if certain high performing players were recruited by the Army to be a new kind of soldier? These gamers could sit behind computer monitors fighting as virtual soldiers, piloting roving guns on wheels.
As gaming tech gets more sophisticated, real killing could be made nearly indistinguishable from virtual killing. But would the Army even need to worry about such a distinction? After all, we're all quite used to watching war on TV, and popular opinion seems to be that each successive generation is even more desensitized to the idea of violence than the previous.
If the tech is cheap enough, and the fighting force is willing and eager, and it saves lives, why wouldn't the Army parlay its computer game into a fighting tool reminiscent of Ender's Game?
It's a rather haunting thought, fraught with moral questions that are ambiguous at best. And it sounds a lot like science fiction, but isn't that part of why we're posting here at all?
. I'm sorry I don't have the pop-sci article with me, or remember it verbatim - but they had this really neat article about how the military's taking the data from that DARPA challenge, where those robots drove themselves in the desert based on programming or something, and they're going from that to this 'Initiative' where they're supposed to to replace like, a third of our armed forces with different kinds of automated programmed machines, like, supply trucks without drivers, automated evac med vehicles, AND, of course, Tanks that walk like ants that shoot people. of course the machines with the guns will be remotely controlled at first, but gradually they'll just be commanded and watched over, and people will take the wheel remotely only when they feel it's especially important. believe it was in the Nov. or Dec. issue of PopSci. I'll look for it again and post by friday. cheers :-D.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I forgot to post the point of all of that - I was meaning to say that they will have people controlling our weapons from a distance. they could, concievably, by 2035, have kids controlling these automated tanks and planes, thinking they're playing games... huh. Does OSC get royalties for that?
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2006
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You brought up some interesting questions Penta, thank you for that. Its good to see someone taking this topic seriously. I believe that she has hit home on some of the major problems with finding students, not to mention how to keep them training for the cause.
But does anyone here have any logical solutions to her questions?
And does anyone have any ideas on what kind of cause would be so inspiering that you could keep such children motivated? Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I think that it would have to be the parents that are motivated, not the children. Since they are introduced at such a young age, after a period of time they would be completely indoctrinated with the school's ideals. They would not even question the motive for what they do. It would be a matter of motivating the parents to give up there children for what could be forever. I think that that motivation would have to be blind fear and extreme ignorance. That is essentially what motivated the populace in EG. There would have to be some extreme threat that there is no informatino about, and no way to get it. It would have to be something not human, because human actions will never be completely unintelligable. Maybe something that evolved on earth, something viral maybe, or something from offworld.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
uhm, I'm back w/ some details from the PopSci article - 'in 2001 the Defense Authorization act was passed, which stated that one third of all opreational ground vehicles were to be unmanned by 2015.' so they make robocars that'll be autonomous except when they're controlled from a distance, by, say, soldiers who got high rankings in 'America's Army' or Quake IV tourneys. the last bit was guesswork by yours truly, popsci made no such suggestion.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2006
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And I think some parent would be quite easy to motivate, for various reasons: sense of duty towards country/humankind/etc, ambition (it is something to have a child in an elite school, and there are some parents that would be able to do it for that reason). And when some people have done it, others would follow.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sorry about that Penta, I just assumed that with a name ending in 'a' ment that you were female, sorry.
I'm not so sure that parents would choose to give up their children, Enders parents were furious when Graff came back for Ender, as were Enders fathers parents when the fleet came for their children. It is not a matter of motivating the parents, it is a matter of offering these genius children something such as freedom from terrible brothers such as Peter or offering them the chance to aid their familly as Enders father did.
And to oolung, I want reasons other than aliens alright. Posts: 1941 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
But I think Ender's parents and Ender's father's parents weren't completely usual. They differed from others in maintaining their religious beliefs, so quite obviously they didn't feel like giving up one of their children. That doesn't mean other parents wouldn't have done it. Let's say, if Bonzo's father was as proud as Bonzo himself, he might feel his son going to Battle School was a kind of... elevating (can't find the right word). All I'm saying, there are all kinds of parents. If some are able to sell their children or to mistreat them, then I'm pretty sure you'd find some willing to give them up to Battle school.
As for reasons... can't think of anything else Posts: 218 | Registered: Jan 2006
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. I'm sorry I don't have the pop-sci article with me, or remember it verbatim - but they had this really neat article about how the military's taking the data from that DARPA challenge, where those robots drove themselves in the desert based on programming or something, and they're going from that to this 'Initiative' where they're supposed to to replace like, a third of our armed forces with different kinds of automated programmed machines, like, supply trucks without drivers, automated evac med vehicles, AND, of course, Tanks that walk like ants that shoot people. of course the machines with the guns will be remotely controlled at first, but gradually they'll just be commanded and watched over, and people will take the wheel remotely only when they feel it's especially important. believe it was in the Nov. or Dec. issue of PopSci. I'll look for it again and post by friday. cheers :-D.
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