quote:Originally posted by Robin Kaczmarczyk: Originally posted by Kagehi: Originally posted by Robin Kaczmarczyk:
quote:The Irakies are fighting for God. Who do you think will win?
The Iraqis are not Jihadi. If you think they are, then you don't a) know any or b) know what the hell you are talking about. Who are the Jihadi?
(Who the Jihadi? The folks blowing up in carbombs all over the middle east since Israel (the funny little country you didn't really mention in this post) invaded Palestine.)
The only pro-jihad Iraqi I personally know about is some asshole
(I should mention that making him an 'asshole' won't help solve the hatred between him and you, and chances are that you will loose in the end, so you might be friendlier in your terminology)
... Because being the coward he was,....
(see?)
Sorry, but that doesn't fly. He also does two other things common for cowards - 1) doesn't let anyone comment on his page and 2) claims everyone that even remotely contradicts him is part of some grand conspiracy. Your don't know Raed, so don't presume to make excuses for why he is an ass. He just is, and is prood of it.
quote:... while the US steels oil....
(true, this is really what this war is about)[\QUOTE]
Bullshit!
[QUOTE]Yeah, the US is getting a "lot" of oil from this.... As in little or none.
(You are obviously badly informed, the price of gas might not really go down, but that does not mean that the US won't be controling strategically important oil-fields WITH TROOPS ON THE GROUND TO ENFORCE IT'S HEGAMONY!)
So, quote some valid sources that prove this. Its complete bullshit. We get less than 17% of our oil from the ME, probably less than 1% from Iraq and the richest oil fields are in Saudia Arabia, **who we know are funding Jihadi** If it was about oil, Iraq was the single stupidist target anyone, even Bush, could have come up with. Your facts are wrong, but they certainly match the propoganda some groups want everyone to believe.
quote:Stick to making excuses for why Mexico sits next to the richest country in the Americas,
(We have a saying, gringo, which is... pobre México tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de USA)
but somehow manages to remain so corrupt
(Thanks to serious undermining efforts by various US agencies, which I have been carefully documenting for quite a while)
...and incompetent it is practically the poorist on both continents.
(lack of Education makes for incompetence. My uncle, Roberto Moreno, who was head of the Humanities at UNAM was once threatened by US Agents because he was impulsing some really good growth programs for the university. The Agent that went to threaten HIS LIFE told him that the USA could not afford a strong Mexico, so he had to stop OR ELSE... Bet you didn't know shit like that happens, eh, bud?)
Some people insist we fund Al Queda and don't want Iraq secure. Others claim we are part of the Jewish conspiracy, etc. Wake up!!! The single number one reason every dictator and corrupt official in every ****ing government in the world ever gives for why they screw their own people is, "Its somehow the fault of the USA and my hands are tied in this." Hell yes I know that kind of stuff happens, but its not the US doing it, its some ass trying to cover his own greed, by blaming the official boogie man. We might as well put in on our national flag, "World's greatest scapegoat!"
quote:Because I know damn well that in general Mexicans are some of the hardest working people on the planet and they are not stupid, so why the @#$@#$@#$ aren't they kicking our asses in every industry?
(because American Industrialists are devious, evil and extremely dangerous adversaries)
Try presenting some actual facts to back that, not the lame excuse from some official who is probably getting rich off blaming the US for his own corruption.
quote:but you presume to talk about what is going on literally on the other side of the planet,
(so do you, and in fact, I don't much know or care about the middle east insomuch that there is so much to do here, at home)
I presume to do so because I actually correspond with people living there, not just watch the evening news, where the only information you get is how many where shot or blown up that day. Its reasonable to make statements about facts you know, but *not* reasonable to make proclaimations about people you don't know, never talked to and know nothing about that isn't reported on the international news services, who often tend to be just as anti-US as the people spreading lies and propoganda about their own murders, theft, corruption and greed being all the fault of the USA, like Al Jezeera. And some are just simply against anything involving the US, no matter what they are doing, despite being in western countries. There is at least two I know of, one French and another, I think, German, that sound like they are being written by Stalin's Russia. They report the truth, where a lie is available.
quote:News from people that sit in a hotel behind 5-6 barricades, already fail to check their facts more than half the time and are relying entirely on information from two sources, the military, who by the time they get around to reporting a volcano would probably report it as the general popping a zit and Iraqi they can't always be sure are not compromised, working for the enemy or getting their facts from some Iranian that just *happened* to, "Saw everything that happened and knows it was those damn Shia.", never mind the black clothing and Iranian made RPGs they had with them.
(you sound like you were there... please explain)
Don't need to be there to know what is going on. Soon after the capture of Baghdad *most* reporters stopped embedding with the military, the ones that still did got kidnappings, etc., so even more left. As of now I know of only one western journalist:
And one Jordanian, who was kidnapped not long ago and is "still" not released. The total number of people imbedding with troops, so they can get the real news, is now is probably 2-3 times what I list, where it was hundreds. Everyone else is holed up in the hotels in the Green Zone, behind security barriers, because their companies don't want to risk any of them dying. You tell me, which ones should we listen to, the Michael Yons, or the CNN reporter that gets nothing but second or third hand reports? Oh, and Yon has an article on his site "specifically" talking about what happens with news from the military. To summerize -
1. Something takes place. 2. Military declares it classified. 3. By the next day every insurgent already knows about it. 4. Weeks later the military de-classifies it and make an "official" press release, which leaves out all but the minimal information. 5. The next day the reporter that **actually** witnessed it finds 90% of the world reporting the incomplete, often inaccurate do to their own failure to report even the military version right and usually littered with assumptions, guesses and bad analysis, based on what the press "thinks" might have happened, because no one bothered to tell the imbedded that the information was releasable or gave them the chance to report the "complete" story first.
quote:...terrorism unfortunately pays. And like in most countries over there, all you have to do is look for the biggest pocket book with the most insane ideology to figure out who is paying them.
(Thanks for making my point. OBL and Saddam both were financed by the CIA, during the war with Iran and the war with the Russians... Those deep pocket books were financed primarily by US taxpayers!)
So what? So where numerous other groups, none of which turned around and started a war with us. Past presidents where short sighted and stupid about it. Now everyone wants us to be short sighted and stupid about it all over again, by not trying to stop them, and just hoping that if we leave them alone, they won't blow something else up. Problem is, most of the assholes they are joining up with, because they have the influence to make more bombers and terrorists, think exactly the same as the Arabs that invaded and temporarilly captured everything from Germany to France for a while. They want to turn the entire world into a place where men can do any damn thing they want, only kings have any money and women are slaves, who you can kill on any made up whim you can invent, and even other men's lives are valueless if they get in the way of spreading a distorted version of Islam that allows these things.
And it **is** a distorted version. Mohammed, in his later days, wrote three things these Jihadi ignore - 1. Christians and Jews are **not** infidels, 2. Women "should" be educated and treated, if not as complete equals, then 1,000 times better than the Jihadi want and 3. Governance should be done by council, chosen by those that they rule, with no one being higher than the others. The first and second ones the Jihadi simply ignore entirely. The last one they deny the document ever even existed, when they even know enough about their own history to know about it.
quote:If they where all the same, that wouldn't have happened. As a rule, jihadi all help each other, because they are all convinced that Allah is on their side and those other dupes will all die first anyway.
(kids who blow themselves up really belive they will go to heaven. You think they will win against paid mercenaries using US uniforms? How long do you think the US Army could convince young men to die if they didn't get well paid?)
Oh right.. So we should just give up and hope they wait a few decades before bringing holy war to the rest of the world. Oh wait... False Islam is already setting up mosques in nearly every country in the world, which teach nothing but the distorted version of Islam and how to hate. Hell, they flat out claim that your country is the key to invading the US, not just because they consider it the easiest border to cross, but because they think they can spread Jihadi Islam to there as a means to recruit people to do it.
Despite what you think, Iraq was a target because we are trying to undermine their ability to recruit by eliminating what prevented those countries from prospering. Every single place that Jihadi have found a foothold in the world is where corruption is rampant, most of the population is poor, no justice exists and there are no prospects for improvement. Saddam "let" his people starve, while he got rich and dreamed of rebuilding Babylon, by building himself more and more palaces. His control over the country was done using secret police that could have been indistinguishable from Jihadi, if not for their loyalties and Iraq was already weak enough that Bush thought we could rebuild it easilly. What he failed to get was that Iran and Syria also knew that Iraq was a keystone, and they where mounting terrorists on the borders and making deals to let even more through their borders into Iraq "before" the first bomb was dropped. Worse, he failed to even guess that 90% of the Iraqi army would vanish like smoke and show up a few days later as the Iraq insurgency. The idea was sound and still is, otherwise Iran, Syria and Saudia Arabian wouldn't be trying so damn hard to incite a full scale civil war, while claiming they are just innocent bystanders, and don't have a clue how their weapons and military personal keep getting caught in terrorist border camps. Iraq scares the hell out of them. And if **they** can keep it unstable, they figure it will prevent the US from hitting them next. They have even said as much.
Hell, Iran has even bragged about how they are learning from this, and if attacked, will vanish into the woodwork, cause enough chaos that the US has no choice but to leave, then step right back into power after. They figure, if Iraq fails, so would any attempt to take them down, so they are desperate to make sure it fails.
quote:To them, winning is more important than if the guy next to you is the wrong religious sect. After all, once Islam rules the world, then you can go back and kill all the fools that helped you make it happen.
(I woundn't want to see Radical Islam rule the world, but I don't like to see the Military Industrial Lords rule it either)
Yep, your definitely getting quality propoganda over there.. Hard to tell though who is writing it, the last Bin Laden speech was practically a verbatum recital of all the same bullshit excuses for why the US is a bad evil military juggernaut and conspiring to screw everyone. At this point, its getting damn hard to tell if Al Queda is writin the press releases for the MSM or Al Queda is just laughing their asses off while borrowing most of their recent propoganda from the MSM. Talk to Germany or Japan about the horrors of being "ruled" by the evil US, never mind every single other country we have ever actively tried to reshape. Yeah, the ones be abandonned in the ME are ****ed up, but they where already screwed up from centuries of wars, Roman rule, then more wars, then British rule, then more wars, then finally the US just showing up to make threatening noises at Russia, before leaving. So.. We come in at the ninth inning, wave some guns around, stupidly leave, and everything is ***our*** fault?
quote:Try finding out what is actually going on over there, who the players really are and what they really believe, before making the idiotic racist comments that every one of them must be pro-jihad.
(watching folks blow up makes it clear no? Otherwise, what support do you think these guys would get? Where would they hide if the Irakies really want US troops there?)
No it ****ing doesn't make it clear. Because the news makes a lot of bad guesses about how is doing the blowing up and half the time fails to even report what someone might have been doing when some troops die. One good example was a while back where they reported 5 soldiers that died. Through the Iraqi sources the "real" news came out. Seems that those five deaths where a result of a fire fight that reasulting in the death of 20 terrorists, all of them from outside of Iraq and the capture of another 40, also all foreign. The news media "eventually" reported the capture, but somehow failed to mention that the prior reported death where even connected. And this is the quality of nearly all the news coming from there. Incomplete facts, blind guesses based on the ideology of the news agency or the most popular theory of the day, disconnected information that makes it nearly impossible to see how anything connects in a bigger picture and **worse**, half the time they fail to report "anything" that isn't the equivalent of a big bust. Two or three terrorists here or there, or even a new hospital, sewage system, repairs to a road, etc. All go unreported. They could capture 500 terrorists and the bloody leader of Syria all in the same day, but unless all 500 are captured at the same time, you probably will only hear of the 4 people that died that day or the latest bomb that went off. And it would probably be a week before you even found out that the leader of Syria was captured. The news coverage of what is going on over there is pure crap. But then this isn't a surprise, we don't have terrorists in the US or Mexico threatening them, and about 10% of the time they can't get basic things that would have taken them 5 minutes to look up, double check or verify completely wrong **here**, and that is with unlimited time, no threats of violence, nearly unlimited resources and absolutely no @#$@#$@#$ excuse for screwing it up.
quote:Bad enough watching all the morons in the US that call themselves liberals, but make such stupid comments prove themselves to be anything but liberal. We don't need someone from outside the US, with access to even less valid information, making the same broad racist generalizations and only adding to the problem.
(When Mexico declares war on the USA, you might swallow your words, amigo)
Ooh! I am just so scared. I might get bitten by someone's Chiwawa... If your actually at all serious about that, then your not just wrong, you are delusional.
quote:Too many peace lovers seem to think that its OK to apply broad and racist labels to people, as long as it supports their own view,
(so long as they love peace, what matters if they are racist? Better a peace loving-racist that a war-loving ... uhhhh... non-racist)
Ok, you are delusional.. By definition racism is divisive and creates wars. It is not possible to be racist and be peaceful, or at least oppressive to people, which basically just means "your" at peace, while someone else is in hell. You want to reinstitute slavery while you are at it? Southern whites where peaceful too, so long as you didn't try to tell them that owning or beating slaves was wrong.
quote:but would drag you into a court over even suggesting that they specifically are lazy, clueless or whatever, on the grounds that you must by trying to claim that all of their "kind" are. This is the exact opposite of liberalism, but much of the left has embraced it as a mantra and it makes me sick seeing it.
(it sounds to me like you have some serious personal issues that you need to deal with. Your rant is angry and offensive and that means you are angry and offensive, and that is not condusive to productive dialogue. Of course, I bet if you watch the O'Riley show, you just might be angered by what you see. That's usually how 'propaganda' works. It works on your gut-level, not on your mind.)
Ah.. Another theory of the (like just be peaceful dude!) mind set. Its not OK to *act* offended, even if someone else offends you, you should just be a good little liberal, shut your mouth and don't say anything. Sort of the same theory, ironically, that Bush and the Fundimentalist movement have for people that are offended by blatent religious pandering, lies and undermining the constitution. "Everyone, including all you Godless athiest liberals, would be happy, if you just all shut up, towed the line, let us do any damn thing we want and stopped complaining about our bigotry and delusions all the time."
No thanks. I happen to treasure my right to get pissed off and tell people how rediculous or stupid they are acting. The last refuge for the truely offensive is to claim everyone else should just shut up and stop pointing out how wrong they are about something.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Economics: From Wiki Mexico is highly dependent on exports to the U.S., which account for almost a quarter of the country's GDP.
Corruption and crime continue to be serious and chronic problems; together they may make up as much as 25% of Mexico's GDP.
Mexico is one of the world's most trade dependent countries, and it is particularly dependent on trade with the U.S, which buys approximately 85% of its exports.
(Not from wiki) A considerable chunk of Mexico's economy is supported by illegal immigrants living here sending money there.
Military: From Wiki Compared to most Latin American armies, the Mexican Army is one of the smallest by its numbers and its budget.
Mexico's armed forces currently number about 300,000.
According to the CIA World Factbook, Mexico's available manpower for military service numbers 24,488,008 (males age 18-49: 2005 est.), with 19,058,337 males fit for military service
---------------------------------------------- How exactly are you planning to take us over in time to march down pennsylvania ave. and arrest George Bush buddy?
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
With the help of really, trully, wonderful internation law. Something the USA seems to have forgotten.
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Okay, some interesting facts regarding US foregin policy in Latin America:
1. In Chile, Salvador Allende was assassinated by the USA.
2. The CIA has repeatedly tried to assassinate Fidel Castro.
3. The US supported Fulgencio Batista, one of the most corrupt and murderous leaders in Cuba. Batista murdered Antonio Giteras, who was against the Platt Doctrine in Cuba, which gave enormous economic advantage to US companies over Cuban properties.
4. In order to fight 'drug traffic', the USA has participated in extremely bloody wars in Colombia, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, Panama and backed some of the most violent and murderous leaders in history, many of which murdered their own people at home after being trained in North Carolina.
5. The USA has continually opposed agrarian reform in all Latin American Nations because the USA is owner of many farmlands all over Latin America. Nationalization of farmlands, such as occurred in Cuba goes against American profits.
posted
1. Maybe, I have no idea. However, if so it was done so secretly that most of the government doesn't know about it. Why? Because its not something the US sanctions, which is bloody why Bin Laden, Saddam and others haven't been assassinated. In fact, under Clinton it was merely **rumored** that a US officer might be involved with a group planning to assassinate Saddam, and we ended his carreer and pulled close to 90% of our live human survalence out of the ME out of fear that some of them might be making deals to assassinate other people. It turned out to be pure bullshit and not true, but the agent is still out of work, we still don't have the same resources we did and Congress, etc. are still so paranoid about even the hint that we might assassinate someone that merely mentioning it will get you black balled by then.
This begs the question of how the hell we could have done so with Salvador Allende and not had half the congress go ballistic over it.
2. Doubtful. Very doubtful. The guy is a major ass, but where it not for some cold war BS that happened early on he would have ended up an ally, not someone serving the Russians. The only reason we would have to assassinate him "now" is to stop refugees from drowning while trying to escape his country.
3. Yes, the US has a bad habit of funding nuts, in the hope they will remove other nuts. Most of them didn't start out though as the most muderous leaders in history, they get that way later and last I looked, we tend to stop supporting them at all the moment it becomes obvious that they have become a problem.
4. So... We should solve the problem how instead? Oh right, the usually bullshit is, "Just get people to stop using it!" Uh huh, we are trying that, but addiction makes the body think it "needs" something the same way it needs water or food. You can't just tell people, "Just say no.", when there are 5,000 different groups of people shipping millions of pounds of the shit in every year, of which less than half gets caught. Afghanistan stopped Opium production for a while. They did it by burning every field they came across themselves and shooting anyone that tried to grow it. What has Columbia, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Chile, Panama, etc. done to stop it? Oops! Next to nothing, because in half those places the people that should be doing it are recieving drug money to not do anything, the rest don't give a crap or are too underfunded, under staffed or constantly interfered with to do anything. So, the US should do what? Shoot everyone flying in or crossing the Mexican border? Might solve the problem, but somehow I suspect that would piss you off at least as much as the things you imagine the US is already doing.
5. ??? The US doesn't own farmlands. People do. If they are interfering with the government, then this is hardly a surprise. It is a problem that has begun to seriously piss off a lot of people. However, **we** are not the ones burning down acres of rain forests to raise chickens or using farmable land to produce acres of marijuana, instead of corn or some other legitimate product. Hell, Africa would probably buy from you, various anti-globalization groups have them convinced that foods made to survive in harsh conditions and produce 2-3 times the yield are being created to actually poison Africans.
But heh, who knows how much of the stuff above, or which you might come up with later is in the same vein as the, "GE crops are poison", bullshit. There are people **actively** inventing these lies to hide their own incompetence, explain away their own inhumanity and make excuses for why they don't actually do anything. Mexico is hardly an exception to this. I have seen people there take a week to dig a hole, when a backhoe was available, not because they "couldn't" use it, but because none of them wanted to bother to learn how. There is one small village where members of my own family have gone to work on schools and other stuff, as a charitable activity. The school has like 20-30 computers sitting collecting dust. Why? Not because no one "can" use them, but because no one can be bothered to either find out how to use them or ask help learning how to. Whose fault is that?
Same is often the case of many people in those other places you mention. Its the "local" leaders preventing progress, not some conspiracy of the US, and half of them are so paranoid they think people are trying to assassinate them even when there is no interest in even trying. And that isn't even mentioning the drug lords, who should be paranoid.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Your political nativitee actually makes this conversation a little dull and today is my birthday, so I will be happy to reply, but don't expect me to do it quickly.
All I can tell you, and this is kind of heart-to-heart talk... Listen, look and don't have prejudices because they can come back an haunt you like hell once the shit hits the fan.
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
There is some vast conspiracy run by corporations, simultaniously with and without the government, or maybe just the government, who are out to ruin people's lives, not steal from them, steal from them, help them build things while preventing them from progressing, etc. And the only people that know the truth, but can't actually prove any of it, is some obscure political figure in one of the supposedly under attack countries, who insists his hands are tied because of the conspiracy. There are as many theories and boogie men involved as their are officials making the excuse that its someone else's fault it all is happening. Try providing some actual proof, not the usual, "Well, it all must be their fault, but let me hide my secret stash of drug money and kick backs before I tell you how.", thumb, shuffle, shuffle, running sounds, car engine starts and drives off, official inexplicably fails to come back to explain it. Naive is believing propoganda that hasn't been fed to gullible fools since the start of the cold war, suggesting that the entire universe is somehow simultaniously controlled by the US and they are so incompetent at it that everyone knows it. The fact that you can usually trace all of those excuses back to dictators, corrupt officials and the propoganda wing of militant groups somehow completely escapes everyone. Then again, you are not looking for truth, you are looking for an excuse. I don't have prejudices, I clearly see who is screwing things up. Your the one falling for a lie that is designed to focus all your attention on imaginary enemies, while the real culprits are busy screwing you and making up BS about how the US made them do it.
Truth is, the US can't win. Every time we do anything right someone else takes credit, every time we mess up, people like you point and say, "See, the great leader was right! They are trying to hurt us." If and when the shit hits the fan, it will be the US telling everyone else, "Screw you. If you don't want us around, see how long you last without us." The last time we did that was prior to WWII. That didn't work out so well for Europe, as I remember...
Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
To those who seem to think they know all the answers to the world's problems, who seem to think they know who's to blame for them, and who seem to think posting here might somehow change them...
A few points:
1) You and I don't have all the facts. We get a small sampling of the facts filtered through two things: government classification of information (something absolutely necessary, btw), and the media's extremely abridged version of the truth (again, necessary, due to the impossibility of reporting every possible angle of the UNabridged truth).
2) The news media is entertainment... period. Just look at how news magazines started dropping like flies when their ratings dipped.
3) Entertainment, in a competitive marketplace, tends toward the Sensational, the Dramatic, and the Scandalous... for one reason: to attract an audience, which will in turn attract ADVERTISERS! (this is understandable and possibly even forgiveable in the case of reality tv, soap operas, and even "good" tv like 24).
4) But the news media, as entertainment, must also attract an audience to survive, so instead of seeking the truth, it seeks any PORTION of the truth that contains Drama or Scandal.
Sidenote: I'm not talking about a left/right media bias (that's a different discussion altogether). We saw the Scandal-Mongers of the mainstream media devour Clinton/Lewinsky and now we're seeing them tear into Bush. And don't get me wrong. I'm not completely blaming the media. The problem is that we the people absolutely EAT THIS STUFF UP! And when people are eating out of your hands, the advertisers are more than happy to keep you in business.
CONCLUSION: Don't assume that what you're being told is the whole story. And with that being the case, don't assume your personal opinion on an extremely complex international conflict is all that important, let alone infallible. And if you still don't believe me and feel THAT strongly about it, don't spend your life whining about it online. Freaking run for office so I can choose to not vote for you.
This will be my one and only post on this thread (unless my words are twisted by responders) because I DON'T want to spend my life whining online (and I don't plan on running for office either).
Posts: 12 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
The facts and figures of which you speak are not necessary. Just take a look at San Diego and then drive down to Tijuana. Good neighbors don't let their neighbors sell their children on the streets. It's bad for the neighborhood. The 'neighborhood' of which I speak is the world.
The fact is the USA acts like a global bully. Nazi Germany tried the same thing about 60 years ago and it ended up being smoldering ruins until the USA came to save the day with the Marshall Plan and pre-fab housing.
I just wish for you to pray, open your heart and stop being a 'stupid' American. Stupid Americans are an endangered species, much more endangered than they care to admit. The fact is the USA is NOT invincible, and thinking in such a way will cause it to collapse and 'stupid' Americans to be punished by 'stupid' Mexicans, Cubans, Lybians, Afgans, Irakies, Chinese, Eruopeans, Japanese.. what have you...
Who the next superpower will be is not important. What is important for ALL powers to begin taking responsability for their actions and stop lying to their people.
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
However, being a drug user, I think I have something to say on the drug trade.
If the US would DECRIMINALIZE certain substances, the Mafia (internation and totally disinterested in borders) would die off from income starvation.
Spending more tax money to fight drugs (when Liquor, Tobacco, Sugar and Coffee are far more deadly) is stupid.
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
The facts and figures of which you speak are not necessary. Just take a look at San Diego and then drive down to Tijuana. Good neighbors don't let their neighbors sell their children on the streets. It's bad for the neighborhood. The 'neighborhood' of which I speak is the world.
The fact is the USA acts like a global bully.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here. I must be misunderstanding because it seems contradictory to me. It seems as though in one breath you are berating the USA for not interfering in the affairs of a sovereign nation, and in the next calling the USA a global bully.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course he is. One thing about conspiracy theorists is that you can't win. If you do anything that helps, you are screwing the world, if you make a mistake, its proof you are trying to screw the world. In the end, it comes down to, "None of it could possibly be our fault, so it must be all yours!" And the first sign of that kind of BS is some idiot claiming that the US is acting like Nazi, stated as fact by someone that probably doesn't have a damn clue what Nazis actually did, beyond what they have seen in some badly made movie.
In point of fact, I used to live in the San Diego for a while and I have travelled in and out of Mexico. What I see is a lot of Mexicans getting rich smuggling other Mexicans out of their supposed paradise, to take up jobs that I would have killed for a few years back, but couldn't get, because no one wanted to pay anything for doing them and the "assumption" was that if you hired Americans, they might ask for more money. So, in a word, if your name wasn't Jose, you didn't get jobs doing low level work. I am sure in Robins world the reality is that the US is "keeping" them there or some BS.
As for decriminilization... What exactly? New studies on Marijuana indicate significant loss over the long term to remember things, a decreased capacity to remember at all, etc. As in, normal people get 14-15 out of a list of 15 words, Marijuana smokers get about 7, and most can't tell you what any of them are an hour later. They also have slower reaction times when it comes to solving problems.
Now, the feds went bloody nuts and banned the damn things for the wrong reasons, then made up lots of BS they claimed they did, to criminalize it the first time. What we **should** be doing is throwing the money into a) treatment, b) rehabilitation and c) councilling to prevent them from going back. Instead we get clowns talking about decriminilization, which is a boat that sailed decades ago, if it ever "was" reasonable in the first place and even more fools that think you can win a war against addiction by jailing the addicted, ignoring treatment and simply making lots of useless drug busts, which make good press, but don't do anything to solve the problem.
As for selling children... I offer roughly the same useless suggestion some people have given for the drug situation, if you didn't actively seek to bring in more and more tourists, many of whom are looking for that sort of thing, you wouldn't have a problem, would you? Stupid, simplistic and pountless. But sort of to the point anyway, since I somwhoe doubt that 90% of the traffic for it, never mind the people doing it are Americans. If the US was truely a global bully, it ***wouldn't*** put up with that sort of shit across its own borders. Instead it keeps telling other people to clean it up, who them quite happilly babble, "You're not invincible, so why should we listen!?" And Scooty wasn't just talking about me, so don't act so @#$@$@#$ superior about how *you* know what is going on either.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
The theme between San Diego and Tijuana is complex. The point is that there needs to be cooperation, not antagonistic us-and-them feelings. That means, the USA needs to start making sense in it's policies toward Mexico and the rest of Latin America.
Failure to do this will result in a 1,000 year war between Latins and Anglos more or less along racial lines, which has already been waged along economic policies (especially those regarding Fruit and Sugar) but which could eventually turn into something far bloodier and deadlier than Vietnam.
Mexico is almost completely owned by the US, which supports us with our ability to sell to the USA. If we could not sell you guys fruit, we would probably collapse as an economy, which would result in chaos, which would result in war, which would result in Cuba II, the sequel.
But the USA is NOT friendly toward Mexico. Just look at the fence you guys want to build. And economic pressures in the USA build even MORE antagonism... Just look at guys like Kaggy.. He is the norm, rather than the exception. Hell, in my own family, my redneck-side are full of bigots who thinly disguise their hatred of Mexicans under patriotic words.
No, I am not saying that the US has to 'stay out' of other countries business. I am saying that they have to be more compassionate and a hell of a lot less interested.
To say, for instance that the invasion or Irak is not about oil, or the invasion of Afghanistan does NOT affect the price of Heroin in Chicago is just plain stupid. Anybody with a little common sense will see that. But I bet lots o' folks who watch Bill O'Riley will not agree with me...
That's the end result of a powerful propaganda machine making americans 'Ugly' (nationalistic-racist) and 'Stupid' (badly informed). Since I am still 1/2 American, I can try to help my countrymen be less 'ugly' and less 'stupid'. I am proud to do that.
I love the USA, kids. That's why I need to let you guys know that things need to change NOW.
Bush is the anarchy president.
But if the USA wants to build a fence, it will have to deal with a lot of anger from our side.
Angering your next-door neighbor
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
So, you come one here are make antagonistic accusations about how the US isn't helping, but just trying to hurt everyone, then say, "The point is that there needs to be cooperation, not antagonistic us-and-them feelings."??? Well, color me confused. I didn't bring any of this stuff up, you did and I can't see how it helped encourage anything "other" than us-and-them feelings.
Or, maybe us-and-you feelings. I have no problem working for a better world with people who want to find solutions, but all you have is accusations and false premises, fed to you by, as I said before, corrupt officials that don't give a damn about fixing the problems.
The only thing I agree with you on is that Bush is a screwed up idiot, but he didn't start 90% of the BS, nor is most of what is going on something the government can do anything about, since they have no right to dictate my or anyone else's choices, and sadly refuse to limit the choices of some corporations. But here is the irony, your greatest supposed allies in the US are companies that don't give a shit if Mexico slid off into the ocean, just so long as they can cut into the profits made by globalized markets. Great allies... Right up there with the ones that think they can get by with running sweat shops, only to get their asses kicked for it by the same government you seem to think it hostile to you.
As for the whole BS with Iraq (What you can't even spell it right?), we get less than 17% of the oil from the ME, 90% of that from Saudia Arabia and Bush is busy trying to undermine environmental policy and the national park service, so you can drill for it in places like Alaska, "***so we can drop most if not all of the 17% we already get***". Why the #@$#@$@# would we invade Iraq for oil that the same president wants to cut us off from? I see no common sense at all from the clowns that think its about oil. And what the hell does Afghanistan have to do with anything. We don't want them selling the shit either and are helping to try to stop it. The only reason they started making more poppies was a) they didn't have much else to grow, like figs, which the Taliban virtually wiped out all the orchards for, and b) various warlords in there figured that without something threatening to shoot them, they could go back to what they did "before" the Taliban took over. Oh wait, you didn't know that Heroine production dropped under the religious fanatics, then reappeared from desperate farmers? Of course not, because all you know is what you get from the press, not anyone "in" afghanistan.
Your not making Americans look any less ugly and stupid, all you have done is parrot the propoganda that the paid and well organized anti-US propoganda machines have been spinning out for the last 10-20 years.
Your right, there is no bloody point in continuing this conversation. Its impossible to find solutions when one side does nothing but parrot the standing propoganda and make accusations, then insist the other side, "needs to fix stuff". Good luck trying to keep Al Queda out of your anti-US army you plan to invade with. I am sure you will be more successful than the Iraq Interior Ministry has been or Tal Afar was at keeping out Iranian jihadi. Just don't blame me when your "enemy" is the only people around with the means to remove the slime from under every rock after the fact.
Oh wait, according to you, they won't be able to do that... Guess your as screwed as I am, according to you.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Robin, I agree with you that the wall is a stupid idea. However, so is the Mexican government helping and encouraging people to break the immigration laws of this country. The wall seems to be a kneejerk reaction to the great numbers of illegal immigrants. I wish that it would stop, so we could get the immigrants here legally.
It hurts everybody. Hospitals have been forced to close Emergency Rooms in SoCal areas due to illegal immigrants, which hurts citizens here (that's just one example of the strain illegal immigration places on social services). Legal immigrants are unable to get a fair wage because they have the same lack of marketable skills as illegal immigrants-placing them in competition for the same jobs. Illegal immigrants must live in fear in the shadows like 2nd class citizens, afraid of getting caught. Just getting a drivers license is a challenge. They are also exploited by companies and individuals.
None of this is acceptable to me. However, this problem is a two way street. It's Mexico's fault as well as the U.S. fault, something you seem unwilling to acknowledge (which kind of scares me to be honest). Corruption in Mexico, from cops on the street to high level government officials is NOT the United States' fault. The fact that 10 year old girls in mountainous areas are sold as a 'wife' to other Mexicans is NOT the United States' fault. Over 80% of the pollution in Mexico city is from automobiles, not American factories. Again this is not America's fault.
Blaming the vast majority of internal problems on another country is not helpful to solving the problems or relations with the other country. Rather, if countries were willing to open up contructive dialogue, progress might be made.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I totally agree. Ending Mexican Corruption starts in the Pentagon.
When the Flag of the Virgen de Guadalupe is flying proudly next to the US Stars and Stripes (or the rebel flag you rebs!) MAYBE we can get to the bottom of where ALL that wonderful drug money is going, and MAYBE we can get Mexico back on track with really important stuff, like
1. EDUCATION. 2. HOSPITALS.
and most of all...
CLEAN WATER FOR EVERYBODY FREE OF CHARGE!!!
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Errr, I hope that in indicating your agreement, either: 1) The following sentence has nothing to do with the one indicating your agreement, since that is not what I'm saying at all
2) You're not agreeing with me, but rather someone else
or 3) You're currently posting under the influence of narcotics and don't know what you're saying.
Personally, based on the following 2 posts by you I'm guessing its #3.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
QOUTE ROBIN To our Jewish friends all I can say is..
If it works, it works. ______________________________________ I hope u are referring to the wall and not socialism... also why only the jews?
Posts: 201 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
What I mean is this: if you need to build a nation, you go for the political structure that worked best to build other nations... Learn from the mistakes, take the good...
Certainly, taking all the money and spending it on infrastructure, education etc. worked fine for Uncle Adolph.
Posts: 379 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
