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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » Ouch...finishing the books hurts

   
Author Topic: Ouch...finishing the books hurts
Ken Muench
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I just finished all of the Ender Series...and the bean series. I listened to them on tape. What an amazing experience. Some of the best books on tapes I've ever heard.

Anyway, I'm going through withdrawals. I have no idea how I'm supposed to last 'till who know when until the new book comes out.

It's amazing, and it's only happened to me once or twice before, but I feel like I've lost some close friends.

Anyone have any recent info on the approximate release date for the next book?

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Orson Scott Card
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You haven't lost them. They're just off visiting somebody else. They'll be back.
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Shan
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*laughs*

That carries more than a grain of truth, given how many of us lend out your books, sir, and end up never getting them home until we buy a fresh set!

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Jimbo the Clown
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*Looks nervously over the shoulder*
I... uh... don't know ~anyone~ who's forgotten to return their borrowed OSC books. No one. No sirree...

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CalvinandThomasHobbes
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I have the same problem about finishing the books. I have developed a bad habit of just reading them over and over in a continuous cycle. So, you should read them all over again. You will understand the story twice as much!
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RunningBear
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The library wouldnt lend them to me anymore...

So I bought them all myself!

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Ken Muench
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quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
You haven't lost them. They're just off visiting somebody else. They'll be back.

That's very good to know.

And let me just say thank you for making my never-ceasing business trips a source of pleasure instead of pain.

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rivka
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BTW, welcome to Hatrack, Ken! [Smile]

I see you're a fellow SoCallian. [Big Grin]

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Ken Muench
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Thanks rivka-I'm fron Tustin, CA, actually. You?

And thanks to Calvin on the advice of re-reading all the books. I just may try it... There's nothing worse than the nightmarish LA-NY flights to sap your soul. Pop an Ender book on the IPOD and I'm good for oh...3 one way trips...like the flights never happened. Beautiful.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Ken Muench:
Thanks rivka-I'm fron Tustin, CA, actually. You?

La Puebla de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles. [Wink]
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Ken Muench:
Thanks rivka-I'm fron Tustin, CA, actually. You?

And thanks to Calvin on the advice of re-reading all the books. I just may try it... There's nothing worse than the nightmarish LA-NY flights to sap your soul. Pop an Ender book on the IPOD and I'm good for oh...3 one way trips...like the flights never happened. Beautiful.

worthing saga is good for a few circuits, same readers too.

Its socal that's sapping your soul man, LA= Lots of Attitude. jk [Wink]

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gsim
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personally, i think that reading books are way better than listening to them on tape. It lets you provide the voices.

ps:*yay, my second post!*

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Ken Muench
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gsim...have you listened to the tapes though? the actors are first rate. It's an incredible experience. Kind of like an 18hour movie...except really good.

Regardless, I'll go for the tapes. Trying to read a book while in LA traffic is not something I'm willing to try. Even if it is an Ender book

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gsim
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not the enders game ones, but ive listened to some other ones and they were REALLY bad
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Wusong101
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Ken,
I'm notorious for reading while driving...
but I'd still go with the tapes
And when I lend out an OSC book I go and buy a new copy the next day. I've never gotten one back and I've lent out several copies of Ender's Game.

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Wusong101
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Ken,
I'm notorious for reading while driving...
but I'd still go with the tapes
And when I lend out an OSC book I go and buy a new copy the next day. I've never gotten one back and I've lent out several copies of Ender's Game.

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opiejudy
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I agree. Finishing any good book hurts. Especially these. I once finsihed a book called the Big Bad Wolf, and had to read the next one London Bridges, only problem I didnt realize it wasnt out yet, I scoured this town like a crazy woman looking for it, came out the next week i saw it at the supermarket and overpaid for it, hubby was mad, I was like I cant drive all the way to the amll, it will mean like 30 more mintues before I could have started reading it!
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Soara
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Awwwww. This thread is so sweet. [Smile]
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Scullibundo
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Start reading the Homecoming series, that's how I've been keeping myself occupied. Now I find that I have another set of characters I care deeply about. Now if I could just find a copy of Earthfall to buy with the newer cover! Having some trouble finding it.
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hatrkr81
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yeah, i'm just starting the homecoming series because i've also been through the ender and alvin series, and i'm loving it so far! one thing i noticed about it so far is that he does alot more stressing of words (words in italics) than normal. At least in Memory of Earth. But it's great. I'm hooked already and only 100 pages into it.
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Ken Muench
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Cool...I'll try the homecoming series. Thanks for the advice.

Oh...and one other thing...I'm not terribly excited about the movie. Perhaps because some of these character have come to be so real or well rounded in my mind I'm afraid the movie will just weaken them. Think of Lord of the Rings. The characters were so powerful in the book...constantly dealing with internal struggles. Put them on-screen and what happens? A much more one-dimensional shallow creation. And THAT was a GREAT adaptation. Imagine what a mediocre adaptation would do? Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy comes to mind. Ouch. 'course, their characters weren't all that well-rounded in the book...but still what that series had in beautiful absurdity, Ender's books have in real, powerful and motivating characters.

I'll hate to see that undersold in the movie.

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Darakemba
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I just finished the homecoming series and for some reason I felt much more attached to the characters in that series than I did in the Ender/Bean series. I'm glad that you are picking it and I think that you will enjoy it tremendously. Now if only OSC could write a couple more books about that series (in between Earthfall and Earthborn) I would be a very happy man.
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Julia
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quote:
some of these character have come to be so real or well rounded in my mind I'm afraid the movie will just weaken them.
It's seems to me that if they are that strong in your mind then no movie could change what you see when you think about the characters.

What you have to do is get good at seperating movies completely from books in your mind. My Ender, my Bean, are completely different characters than Movie Ender and movie Bean. They've got the same names but thats about it.


I have trouble giving ender a face [Smile] . So when I see the movie I can use the actor's face if I want to, but if I think movie Ender is ugly then no way am I going to let that sneak in and warp my mind! I'd rather have Ender walk around faceless for the rest of eternity.

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Ken Muench
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Put your face on Ender. Does it work?

I think sometimes we give ourselves the roll of the hero, but don't admit it. I'm guessing that we ALWAYS give ourselves the roll of the hero, actually. So you're Ender...that's why he doesn't have a face.

Ok...that's my dime store psychology for the day.

True or not?

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Sage Zander
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I think it's a little true, Ken. I do that sometimes. It's sort of hard not to, because it does seem almost natural when you can identify with characters. OSC characters I've found especially easy to identify with.
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Dog Walker
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I also find Raymond E. Fiest's characters very lovable but he tends to abandon the major characters as he goes on in his series. This is very cruel to the fans that are wanting to here more about Pug and Jimmy the Hand. Forchanitly he makes new characters that just as good.

OSC doesnt stray from the major characters in most of his novels, though Ender is so different when he becomes Andrew.

Sorry if this is a little of topic [Frown]

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erosomniac
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quote:
I also find Raymond E. Fiest's characters very lovable but he tends to abandon the major characters as he goes on in his series. This is very cruel to the fans that are wanting to here more about Pug and Jimmy the Hand. Forchanitly he makes new characters that just as good.
Read the Serpentwar Saga.
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Julia
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Ken Muench:

I don't use MY face for any characters, if thats what you are saying, and definitely not Ender, (for I am a girl and that might be a little weird). I don't see myself as Ender at all. The only reason sometimes my characters don't have faces is because of my feeble cerebral capabilities. But maybe I am missunderstanding you.

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Ken Muench
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No. That's what I mean.

But like I said, cheap dimestore psychology.

I don't put my face on ender. But probably because I stop just shy of that. My Ender (or any other main character from other books) doesn't have a face either...but like I said, that's probably because he's me. Except I won't go as far as to put my face on him.

I do believe that all stories are essentially about meaning. In other words, humans don't read stories for pleasure. You read them for meaning. Stories are what help you make sense of the world. In a way, everything is a story: religion, school, your job etc. You believe in a set of ideas, and that set of ideas "creates" your world. And a story is the most classic "set of ideas" there is.

So, if you believe this premise, you will stand to gather the most "meaning" from the main character of the book. The character who deals with most of the issues and "has" most of the story.

And since it's meaning you're after, you naturally put yourself in the main character's shoes and "go through the paces" with him/her, understanding and capturing "meaning" throughout the process.

That's why you can't see Ender's face...because it's you. First person sight in a way.

So, now it's cheap dimestore philosophy, but there you have it.

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Orson Scott Card
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Film isn't a good medium for "internal struggle" - fiction, by the nature of the medium, does it far, far better. you will ALWAYS lose character dimension when you translate from page to film; in return, you gain visual imagery far beyond a novelist's ability to create, as well as facial expression and flair that can at best be implied on the page.

Different media result in different effects. The Ender movie will also be "thinner" because we can't get inside ender's head. But the relationships will be strengthened and to be able to SEE the stuff will compensate a lot <grin>. But to deplore the movie because it's not the book is missing the point: They are two translations of the same story, using the strengths of two different media. They can coexist.

though I WOULD like to know that Peter Jackson was punished with, say, a mild case of hives for having left the Scouring of the Shire out of the movies, and at least one stubbed toe as punishment for all the silly stuff about Arwen that was supposed to beef up the nonexistent romance.

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Peter_The_Great
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I can't believe I get to say this, but I couldn't agree more OSC [Smile]
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unknown mind reader
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The key to solving withdrawal issues is finding another addiction but controlling it more than Card's series.
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Ken Muench
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quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
Different media result in different effects. The Ender movie will also be "thinner" because we can't get inside ender's head. But the relationships will be strengthened and to be able to SEE the stuff will compensate a lot <grin>. But to deplore the movie because it's not the book is missing the point: They are two translations of the same story, using the strengths of two different media. They can coexist.

I suppose you're right. It just depends on the ability of the viewer/reader to keep both things apart in his mind.

Although I think the visual power of a movie overwhelms the literary power of a novel (unfortunately), and what we end up remembering is the eye candy of the movie, and not the meat and bones of the book. I guess in the end we are lazy creatures, and if someone does the work for us and actually creates the character (as in a movie) our mind will let go the less substantial image we have in our mind from the book.

Having said that, I'll be the first in line to see the movie when it comes out. And the first in line to buy the new book when it comes out. And I'll love them both, regardless of my snotty lit major, pigheaded idea of adapted screenplays.

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Tresopax
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quote:
Film isn't a good medium for "internal struggle" - fiction, by the nature of the medium, does it far, far better. you will ALWAYS lose character dimension when you translate from page to film; in return, you gain visual imagery far beyond a novelist's ability to create, as well as facial expression and flair that can at best be implied on the page.
I disagree with the suggestion that film isn't a good medium for internal struggle. Many films, especially by the more gifted directors, do succeed in showing as much internal struggle as novels do. They just do it in a different way - they use visual cues to express it to the audience, rather than words. Even a pretty basic movie like Star Wars can cue internal struggle to the viewer by doing simple things like holding the camera on Darth Vader's mask for a few seconds while he's doing nothing, signaling the viewer to focus on what Vader might be thinking right then. If you stop and think about it, that works suprisingly well given that a character like Vader literally has no facial expressions at all and offers no verbal line to suggest he has internal conflict until the very end of the trilogy. The viewer is able to infer it pretty well from the events, statements made by other characters, the way the director portrays the scenes, and other cues.

So I guess in film you could say that internal conflict is expressed in a much less direct way than in fiction, but I don't think this a reason to conclude it isn't a good medium for internal conflict. I would suspect some directors out there would disagree, at least. If you look back at what are considered the classics by the film industry (stuff like Citizen Kane, Lawrence of Arabia, The Graduate, Schindler's List, It's a Wonderful Life) I think there is a tradition of choosing films centered around internal conflict as some of the very best films ever made.

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