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I was explaining the concept of how the piggies are planted to a friend the other day and how the local grass is an anesthetic, and then how they used its affects to climb the "pain inducing" fence. Him after finding out that this substance is the common grass of the planet posed the qeustion "do you think their's recreational drug use among the piggies?" Its certainly readily available and easy enaugh to do... do young piggies sneak off to go and chew? just a thought.
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War chief, I have never seen a post of yours that didn't take me aback the first time I saw it. This is no exception.
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I actually think it's a pretty interesting thought. But we have plenty of addictive substances available without becoming (in most views) a species of addicts. One of the criteria for American Psychiatric Association criteria of addiction is that use of the substance interferes with one's ability to function. Most people don't consider coffee an addiction because it appears that no one can function without it. Same with sugar. I'm not sure where the line is between oxygen, water, sugar, coffee on into the more obvious substances.
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Id say that taking a substance to numb your pain is a pretty "hard" drug. could it be purely ceremonial like peyote and the S americans?
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Peyote induces another type of wakefulness entirely, it doesnt numb you. I think that most drugs are taken because they cause pleasure or other hallucinations etc. I know cocaine directly affects the brains dopamine production center, creating a sense of pleasure.
I do suppose that the piggie grass could be used ceremonially however, it just doesnt make sense to me.
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Didn't Human say something about not wanting to chew it completely, because you didn't want to forget what pain was like?
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I wasnt saying that peyote and the capim had similar affects only that they were to be used during rites of passage.
I thought the capim was used to elevate themselves above from pain so they feel it but they dont care, their tree selves feel nothing, take to much and ure tree becomes stupid.
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lol like anyone here needs any excuse to reread the books but i can remember the parts when they describe the effects of the capim.
First when Olhado was climbing the fence its described as worst pain ever but ure tree self doesnt (edit) feel it only ure second life body does.
second when ender has to "plant" human he says he doesnt want to eat to much otherwise his tree will be dumb like a brother tree not a father tree.
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I would have to say it was an "addiction" closer to the pleasure of sex, because it was about sex.
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quote:Originally posted by pooka: I actually think it's a pretty interesting thought. But we have plenty of addictive substances available without becoming (in most views) a species of addicts. One of the criteria for American Psychiatric Association criteria of addiction is that use of the substance interferes with one's ability to function. Most people don't consider coffee an addiction because it appears that no one can function without it. Same with sugar. I'm not sure where the line is between oxygen, water, sugar, coffee on into the more obvious substances.
I'll agree if you amend it to: "the drug interferes with one's ability to function, AND one is unable to stop in spite of consequences." The consequence part of drug addiction is the key one. Without that you could say that I am addicted to beer because it makes it so I can't drive a car when I drink it. The thing is I'm not an addict because if I need to drive, I won't drink, and thus there are less adverse consequences.
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quote:second when ender has to "plant" human he says he doesnt want to eat to much otherwise his tree will be dumb like a brother tree not a father tree.
Actually, Human doesn't want to chew too much because the piggies want their second life to end with the memory of what it was like to have a piggy body--they wanted to feel some pain. The capim had nothing to do with being a brother or father tree. Human talked about that when Ender wanted to kill him quickly (in Ender's eyes, more humanely) instead of planting him as a father tree.
In the first example you mentioned (although it was Miro who was climbing the fence), the piggies do talk about it like a sort of pleasurable out-of-body experience. It never occurred to me to look at it in a recreational drug use way before, though. Doesn't seem like they piggies ever do it except when they need anaesthetic, though, so seems like it's used more as a medical drug than for fun.
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