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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » The Crucible is to Communism as Enders Game is to, the Pacific Theatre?

   
Author Topic: The Crucible is to Communism as Enders Game is to, the Pacific Theatre?
TheDisgruntledPostman
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For those who have read The Crucible, they should know that the play had an underlying theme, communism. Well, just the other day my friend, who just recently finished EG, was talking to me about an idea/theory he had, and to be honest, i found this very perplexing.
In EG, as we all should know, the buggers attacked earth seeking resources/seeking to expand themselves. This was a sneek attack, and we were able to barely hold them off. Then the buggers attacked again, but this time, it seemed as a draw, they retreated and we survived. Then we attacked.
Now think about it, WW2, Japan attacks pearl harbor, a sneak attack, killing many soldiers, they then retreated and returned to Japan. Then the battle of Wake island, which seemed as though a draw. Then we attacked, we entered Japan and bombed Hiroshima and killed many and rebuilt the Japaneese society.
In EG, they used Dr.Device, then Ender rebuilt the Buggers society. Now, dosne't that sound very similar? What are some thoughts on the topic?

[ May 17, 2006, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: TheDisgruntledPostman ]

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TheTick
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psst: Wake Island, dude. Quake Island sounds like a B-movie location.
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TheDisgruntledPostman
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ha, i said quake, sorry bout that, i meant Wake, Wake Island
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RunningBear
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Yeah...

That does...

Shudder...

****SPOILER**** CHILDREN OF THE MIND *****

Especially after Peter meets up with the japanese fellows and they speak about the bomb.

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Oliver Dale
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I'd be willing to be any preceived connection is entirely coincidental. I'd also be willing to bet that OSC will gladly claim credit for any cleverness you read into his books [Smile]
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TrapperKeeper
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I think you are reading too much into it. And to be picky, technically the underlying theme in Crucible was McCarthyism.

If Card did have some underlying theme, don't ya think he might have come out and said it in the intervening 20 years or however long its been out?

His writing style isn't exactly the type where you have to dig to find the meanings. Most books some character comes right out and says the theme/morals at issue in the book.

Enders game/series talks at length about whether a person should be judged by his actions or motivations. Worthing Saga comes right out and says it at one point also to the extent of without pain or the possibility of loss, there would also be no need for heroism or self sacrifice.

I don't think Card writes with hidden meanings. Just look at the character names for petes sake. Ender, Peter and Valentine. Someone who has never even read the book could probably tell you what each character will be like to some extent.

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camus
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I too believe that this connection is entirely coincidental, as many other perceived connections are.
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pooka
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quote:
the underlying theme in Crucible was McCarthyism
Exactly. Though both The Crucible and the Ender books raise the question of how much like your enemy you are willing to be in order to oppose your enemy. I don't know if that's quite the way of saying it. I forget if anyone says in the books that humans, having committed Xenocide once and contemplating it again, are the Varelse.

P.S. Peter II says this when Quara wants to have the MD device in case they can't communicate with the descoladores.

[ May 19, 2006, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: pooka ]

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Lucky_Sean
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Yeah I've performed the Crucible twice, and I found McCarthyism as opposed to communism in it.
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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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They usually go hand in hand, though.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Really? Where's the McCarthyism to go hand in hand with the communism in modern China?
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TrapperKeeper
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Really people, lets not start debates over semantics.

Virtually everyone here knows that McCarthyism involved communism because he was accusing varous people of being commies and the whole red scare thing. I think thats all flaming toad was saying. Thats also why when I mentioned it initially I said I was being picky. Its a minor quip that doesn't change the premise of what Postman was saying.

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pooka
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Of course a modern day communist will assure you that any regime that killed millions of its own citizens either with intent or by neglect is not true communism. Sort of the same way Christians are always saying any Christian movement that resulted in oppression and death wasn't really Christian.

One of my ideas I used to have was that any system works fine if everyone it it is fully cooperative. But since no one ever is, they are all equally worthless. I don't know if I still believe the "equally" part. I guess my point is someone will suffer under any regime. But I would have to think more about the definition of suffering under someone else's control versus suffering because of mistakes you are allowed to make by being free.

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Nikisknight
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"Communism only works in Heaven, where they don't need it, and Hell, where they've already got it."
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Shawshank
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I can see the correlation between the two areas of combat. But I think instead of looking at WWII and devising Formic Wars' campaigns- OSC looked at what would be the necesity of the plot and how the war makes the most sense to be carried out.

That is- he assumed that it would be better for the Formics to sneak attack Earth so as to leave humans completely unrprepared.

[SPOILER]

And then once the humans relaunched their counter attack he got to thinking that the best way of doing it would be going from planet to planet- much in the fashion as US island-hopping through Pacific.

[/Spoiler]

I think it's an interesting idea but just coincedental. It's just a basic military campaign.

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Blayne Bradley
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not realyl planet to planet all the IF fleets were each launched with a particular system in mind and times so that they all arrived somewhat simultaniously with the oldest ships arriving at the homeworld.
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