posted
I didn't read the story, only the opening page, but didn't really understood the wade-giles/pin-yin explanation OSC gave. why on earth will people spell words in the old system, which is less accurate? what's the relation with "the old glory of china"? BTW, this idea is wrong since the Wade-Giles system was created by westeners, while Pin-Yin was created by the chinese themselves, so I fail to see the logic of the argument for spelling his name Tzu.
Is the "Han" family really special in some way? did the story explain why he is named after a legalist thinker?
In the opening page there was a picture with chinese characters in the background, but in the story it says they abolished chinese characters, so what's up with that?
posted
I don't get why every time he talks about Chinese history and culture, it's always so old and outdated....with generalizations that are wayyy overexaggerated. He doesn't do that with many other cultures...oh sure, he still over generalises like crazy, but things like spanish pride and portugese support of the catholic church aren't as old and outdated legalist thinking.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Of course Chinese history is "old and outdated"...it already happened. Or do you mean the perspective used to view Chinese history? In that case, Mr. Card has his own perspective and analysis that in no way needs to agree with what any "modern" perspective may be.
Posts: 56 | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
I should add that a perspective in viewing history is only considered "modern" because a large number of historians that live around now agree on it, but in my experience that doesn't add much to its validity if each historian is educated virtually identically and looks at the facts the same way.
Posts: 56 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ErezL: I didn't read the story, only the opening page, but didn't really understood the wade-giles/pin-yin explanation OSC gave. why on earth will people spell words in the old system, which is less accurate? what's the relation with "the old glory of china"? BTW, this idea is wrong since the Wade-Giles system was created by westeners, while Pin-Yin was created by the chinese themselves, so I fail to see the logic of the argument for spelling his name Tzu.
Is the "Han" family really special in some way? did the story explain why he is named after a legalist thinker?
In the opening page there was a picture with chinese characters in the background, but in the story it says they abolished chinese characters, so what's up with that?
I should probably offer my thoughts. Having illustrated the image for Cheater, I'd like to defend the work.
I'll go backwards and answer your last question, first. The story does not say the Chinese written and spoken language were abolished. In fact, if you read further in the story, it states:
"...the pedestrians were talking Chinese, like the servants, instead of Common, like Father and the tutors, but he understood both languages very well, and Father was proud of that, too. "Chinese is the language of Emperors," said Father, "but Common is the language that the rest of the world understands. You will be fluent in both."
I do my best to ensure things like that don't get past me. You had me worried for a moment there, ErezL.
As for the importance of the Han family name, I can't say it has any direct correlation to the story of Hot Soup. However, the Han Dynasty was considered to be one of the greatest periods in Chinese history. And to this day, the people of China consider family names to be very important. As do most countries that have such ancient historical backgrounds.
So, if anything, that fact may provide a little insight into the character of Han Tzu's father. But now I'm speculating and addressing my own interpretation.
posted
I really enjoyed the story. Little Hot Soup is a very entertaining character! Also liked the fact that OSC acknowledged the discussion from the "Hot Soup's Life" thread about the origins of the name.
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
So the Han name refers to the Han dynasty? Because that will be a mistake. the Han refers to the Han people which is the "pure" Chinese, which is the majority in China. Han is a very very common last name.
The Han dynasty founder was Liu Bang, and his entire family was named Liu, like famous descendents like Liu Xiu (founder of the later Han dynasty) and Liu Bei (founder of the Shu-Han state in the "three kingdoms" period). Again, I haven't read the story, but if Han refers to the Han dynasty royalty, this is simply wrong.
And once again, I would like to understand why he is named after a legalist thinker, which was a philosophy rejected by the Han dynasty (which made Confucianism it's official doctrine), I am in great doubt anyone will call his child in that name, which is especially strange in the case of Xenocide, where the Han Fei Zi character has believes completely opposite to the legalist philosophy (and on the same note why his wife name is Jiang Qing - Mao's wife)?
Posts: 9 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
BTW jin977, according to the paragraph you quoted, it say people spoke chinese but not that they could read or write it. It says in the start that the govrement decided it was too difficulte to put on computers (BTW it's not difficult to write chinese on computers, in fact it can be very fast) and harder to learn to write it so they abolished the written language. But again I didn't read the whole story and so I apologize if I missed anything. BTW, I enjoyed to painting very much!
Edit: My chinese isn't great, so can you help me understand the writing in the painting: it says 皇宮酒樓, which is "imperial palace"+"alcohol"+"floor", what does that mean? or is the last character 摟?
Posts: 9 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ErezL: So the Han name refers to the Han dynasty? Because that will be a mistake. the Han refers to the Han people which is the "pure" Chinese, which is the majority in China. Han is a very very common last name.
The Han dynasty founder was Liu Bang, and his entire family was named Liu, like famous descendents like Liu Xiu (founder of the later Han dynasty) and Liu Bei (founder of the Shu-Han state in the "three kingdoms" period). Again, I haven't read the story, but if Han refers to the Han dynasty royalty, this is simply wrong.
And once again, I would like to understand why he is named after a legalist thinker, which was a philosophy rejected by the Han dynasty (which made Confucianism it's official doctrine), I am in great doubt anyone will call his child in that name, which is especially strange in the case of Xenocide, where the Han Fei Zi character has believes completely opposite to the legalist philosophy (and on the same note why his wife name is Jiang Qing - Mao's wife)?
Well,no!The dynasty's name didin't depended on the emperor's name.They are different systems. And,Hot Soup's family name is different from Han dynasty.I mean,they are different chinese characters.
About your last qustion.Er,do you know武则天?(The only impress in Chinese history?)Mao's wife Jiang Qing wanted to be like that.So,I think,their thoughts in some ways are just the same. Posts: 40 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ErezL: BTW jin977, according to the paragraph you quoted, it say people spoke chinese but not that they could read or write it. It says in the start that the govrement decided it was too difficulte to put on computers (BTW it's not difficult to write chinese on computers, in fact it can be very fast) and harder to learn to write it so they abolished the written language. But again I didn't read the whole story and so I apologize if I missed anything. BTW, I enjoyed to painting very much!
Edit: My chinese isn't great, so can you help me understand the writing in the painting: it says 皇宮酒樓, which is "imperial palace"+"alcohol"+"floor", what does that mean? or is the last character 摟?
It doesn't like you thought.皇宫（Sorry,I use simplified Chinese word)means the place of the empire.And酒楼just means good restaurant.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Well, I relize then Han dynasty character 漢 isn't the same as the family name 韓 but I don't know if OSC is aware of that so I figured it is treated as the same character.
Same thing goes for the dyansty's last name (Liu), from what I read it seems as if Han is treated as the last name of the Han emperors, which is wrong.
I know empress Wu, but it's a stretch to say she was the only female emperor, what about the Qing's 20th century empress dowager (Zu Xi was her name I belive)? I always thought that if she was a different person things could have gone a lot different...
Posts: 9 | Registered: Aug 2006
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It doesn't like you thought.皇宫（Sorry,I use simplified Chinese word)means the place of the empire.And酒楼just means good restaurant.
