posted
I'm teaching sections of "The Worthing Saga" in my ninth-grade English class (Catholic school, so we get to talk about God if we want. Yay.).
Leave it to a bunch of 15-year-olds to point something out that had never occurred to me. Pardon if this question has come up before. I'm new to this forum.
The question was: before the Day of Pain, Justice and the Watchers were protecting the people of Flat Harbor (and the other worlds) from all sorts of distress. They "changed what people wanted," said Jason.
The kids wanted to know, then, why was Thano permitted to want to commit adultery?? The text makes it clear that "those who protected you prevented bastards as well," but the question is a good one. Why not remove the desire from Thano to stop her from her philandering with the travellers?
I've been reading and rereading this novel for years, and that never occurred to me to ask. And that's why I became a teacher: because I get to learn new things.
BTW, Mr. Card: some years ago you met a fan at a book signing in New Jersey, and he told you that his friend was an adjunct teaching at Rutgers, and told her students that she thought OSC was on a level with Shakespeare. I'm that teacher.
I think "Worthing" should be required reading in all Christian seminaries. It addresses the problem of theodicy in ways that no theologian ever has, to my knowledge.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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I'm rereading Worthing now, too, and I don't remember the Watchers changing what people desired. I remember it being mentioned several times that they kept illegitimate babies from being born, but not that they altered the desire of men and women for each other.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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What a fascinating question. I would have to reread the book in order to figure out whether I had an answer in mind while writing it or can come up with one now. What occurs to me first is that it's simply an error on my part; since we don't live in such a shepherded world, I simply forgot what was and was not possible. What occurs to me second is that somebody wanted the mating to happen and the child to be born, though without reading the book I could not guess who or why.
I'm severely hampered by not having read the 1982-3 version of Worthing Chronicle in more than twenty years.
Meanwhile, I'm thrilled to know that Worthing is being used in the way you're using it. Many years ago, Jay Wentworth at Appalachian State used the novel (it was still new then) with a class to discuss all kinds of moral and ethical issues. Since Jay and I have remained great friends ever since, I can't help but assume there's a kinship between me and any teacher bold enough to want to turn a bunch of students loose with the questions this book raises! Thanks for being such a teacher.
Posts: 780 | Registered: Jul 1999
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Thank you both for the gracious reply. (I thought I'd responded already, but the post may not have gone through).
Quick question: is there any chance that another version of "Worthing" might be published? I'm thinking of a more compact version of the story that is entirely school-friendly. (I'm having to skip certain tiny bits here and there. Kids at that age are like kegs of gunpowder: the least little spark sets them off and makes them crazy).
Not only do I think your work should be in the high school canon, I also feel strongly that this novel should be required reading in seminaries. It, more than anything else I've ever heard or read, addresses the problem of evil to my satisfaction.
Maybe it's because that problem almost has to be addressed as a narrative--not as an essay or theological work?
Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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It is a wonder to me that more high school english teachers haven't even read anything by OSC. I think it is something teenagers could like to read that serves the same essential teaching purposes. Instead they stick them with books that are so completely irrelevant, and often boring that it's no wonder the kids don't care. I'm not even talking about "classics" here. Some of those are necessary for the historical context. However, things like "Brave New World", what is the point? Yes it raises some "Big Brother" issues, but I never found anything in it to get excited about.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I had to read "Brave New World," and "1984" in high school. I think we're still using "1984."
I always figured it was the Cold War mentality that made those novels so popular. Not sure what the attraction is these days, though. I keep trying to point out to the kids how much like Capitol our society is, but they've been raised in a plasticine world, so there's little frame of reference.
Not sure I'd get away with using "Worthing" in public school. It could be done, of course, cautiously, but to me it just speaks so very well to the ultimate concerns that are the domain of religious belief. Something tragic happens. And we say, "Why has God abandoned us?" The dark night of the soul. Poor Lared. It's really his story.
I was reading the end of the "Chronicle" section aloud today, and became really engaged and dramatic when I was doing Lared's parts--where Lared argues with Jason about WHY things had to be the way they were. Jason gets equally exercised. (I think I identify most with Justice, though. And my husband is more like Mercy.)
Funny thing happened one morning: we were reading the novel together... I was reading and then stopping to discuss various things, and suddenly all the kids were glued to the windows. Dumbfounded, and staring.
At first I couldn't figure what they were looking at, but then I saw these two little squirrels up in a tree near our windows. They were doing What Squirrels Do In Spring. SHEEEEESH. Just my luck.
I was able to sorta-kinda salvage the situation by mentioning that if they'd grown up in Lared's world, the world of farm and field, it wouldn't have been at all remarkable. "See--we really ARE a lot like Capitol! Not good, kids...we're getting very removed from nature...does anyone happen to have a water pistol handy??" (I figured I'd squirt the squirrels and make them stop. Didn't work.)
I've been trying hard to demonstrate how like Capitol our society has become. The decadence and the moral apathy and decay. The killing of children (abortion). Rampant materialism. The illusion of immortality. We don't have somec, but we have all manner of plastic surgery and things like botox, etc. When we bury our dead, we try our best to pretend they're only sleeping (see Jessica Mitford's "The American Way of Death") And the media: the life loops were so incredibly prophetic (can you say "reality TV"??) Nothing is real anymore.
The Ender stories, which I used last year, were also magnificent. I brought in Martin Buber's "I/Thou" and "otherness" with those.
Sometimes I think: it's either teach Card and try to stay sane in a crazy world, or run away and join the Amish. Little hard to do that, because I'm married to an Episcopal priest. So I teach Card whenever possible.
It's just that these novels are almost like scripture to me. They mean that much to me.
I suggested to my husband that we start a book discussion group at his parish. Guess what I'd start with if we do that? Worthing. No question. Then Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, etc.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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Yeah, no kidding. I read Worthing in 8th grade, I'm a freshman in highschool now and I would love if my LA teacher taught Orson... When I mentioned Orson to my LA teacher he said "Ender's Game sucked."
Oh well. We all can't have perfect LA teachers.
"I'm thinking of a more compact version of the story that is entirely school-friendly."
I can't think of those parts right now... I sure didn't notice them when I read the book for the first time. I need to re-read it but first I have to get it back from a friend I lent it to.
(Edit)
Now that I think about it, I think I could loan Worthing to my LA teacher and ask him if it would be good for his Sci-fi class, would you mind posting your lesson/discussion questions so I could look at them?
Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2006
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I've got the CD, and have used it some in class. It's well done and was worth the money.
We're just getting to the end of the original "Chronicle" section, where Jason explains to Lared that taking away all pain and suffering was to deny the people their humanity, depriving them of the chance to struggle and overcome adversity.
This is "a hard saying," and I'll be honest: when I'm in some kind of pain I don't want to hear it either, but in my heart I know it's the truth. It's a very profound truth.
Does anyone happen to know whether Joseph Smith ever studied kabbala? (that's not really a non sequitur...)
Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote: Yeah, no kidding. I read Worthing in 8th grade, I'm a freshman in highschool now and I would love if my LA teacher taught Orson... When I mentioned Orson to my LA teacher he said "Ender's Game sucked."
Maybe he's reading it on a wholly secular level. I still wouldn't say "it sucks," partly because I think that is a lazy slang word that isn't very descriptive, but mostly because I think Card's work does not suck. At all. Quite the contrary.
I love Card's work because quite honestly, I see his stories as spiritual parables.
My reading of "Ender's Game" focuses on its insistence that all creation is a oneness, and that, despite outward appearances, all of us are linked together. In Christian parlance, this concept of "oneness" and codependency is sometimes called "the Body of Christ." And "Ender's Game" makes the point that there really is no "enemy," but various parts of the whole attempting to survive in the ways they are naturally adapted to do. The misunderstanding of this principle is what causes conflicts. Look at any war--ANY war--and if you dig down deep enough, it stands up. EG makes this point very forcefully.
The most profound and wonderful irony of that story is that Ender the xenocide, the monster (shades of Doon?) winds up as the savior of the Buggers, when before, he was their nemesis. (I cry every time I get to that part with the Hive Queen). And I totally lose it when I read the part about how the Piggies "planted" that missionary...and he LET THEM do it.
What else is the bible, if not a collection of stories of redemption? You may want to do a bit of reading on Martin Buber and his framework on the I/Thou relationship. Also, look up "othering" and "the Other," and see what comes up. Then try to imagine how those concepts apply to "Ender's Game." Interesting, no?
To see all of God's creation--ALL of it--as linked to oneself, as part of oneself...to see nothing that God has made as ugly or wicked...that is truly the kingdom of heaven within you. IMO.
"Ender's Game" does exactly that.
This guy is writing modern sacred scripture under the appearance of "science fiction." These stories are spiritual parables. If you read them as secular stories about imaginary beings and places, written purely for their entertainment value, then of course he doesn't get it. For years, the friend who introduced me to OSC in the 80s would ask me what religion I thought OSC was. Neither of us could figure it out for the longest time, but my friend tended to think OSC was Catholic. I didn't think it really mattered: the stories more than speak for themselves. They're about universal moral and religious principles that transcend denominational concerns.
That friend was outwardly very secular, and professed to have no religious interests at all. Then he introduced me to OSC's work. Now, for that person, OSC is his pathway, his only gate, into spirituality. OSC is the only way this person is *able* to approach the divine (lots of reasons, long stories, etc). And the divine is at the heart of the entire body of work. IMO, again.
The thing that really impressed me was that for this person, for whom conventional religious practice was not very likely--maybe impossible--OSC's work functioned the way sacred scripture functions for a lot of people. After reading OSC's works, I understood how that could be.
These stories are spiritual parables, and the messages they convey are not at all superficial. If your teacher doesn't see that, then perhaps he's not ready for it? Expectations are everything. He may have been expecting one thing, and getting quite another.
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." Maybe you will be your teacher's teacher on this one? You never know.
Encourage him to read EG alongside Buber. See what happens. You never know.
Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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I myself am a Christian, and I didn't notice that before, but now that you've pointed it out to me its fairly obvious. Maybe thats why I'm so drawn to anything OSC writes.
Even though my LA teacher made that comment about Ender's Game, I still respect him. He is very knowledgeable, and I think an attributing factor to his weirdness is he saw too many bombs go of in 'Nam. (Seriously.)
Your post gets the good 'ol highlight-crtl-c save in word treatment, congrats =P.
Posts: 57 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:My reading of "Ender's Game" focuses on its insistence that all creation is a oneness, and that, despite outward appearances, all of us are linked together.
Hmmm... where do you see this in Ender's Game, specifically?
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Hmmm... where do you see this in Ender's Game, specifically?
I see it as embedded in the plot lines. Not only embedded, but I see it AS the story!
In the first story, the original "Ender's Game," the Buggers are the big bad guys who are out to destroy humanity. Everyone on earth is totally focused on destroying the Buggers, and eventually Ender, with the help of a representative sampling of children on earth from almost every major ethnic group (together they are "Everyman," or Every-Earth-Being), destroys the Buggers (they think).
As the series continues, Ender, and everyone else realizes that the Buggers' primary motivation was not to destroy humanity but to find a place for their kind to live (that sounds like every war that's ever been fought). The Buggers were operating on the assumption that humans were like themselves, and that the destruction of a single individual was not really ending a life, but analogous to clipping a fingernail, or pushing someone out of the way. Humans saw it very differently, of course, because we are not hive-beings. Oops.
As the story progresses, Ender the Xenocide, who has become a monster instead of a hero (and that's the thanks he gets from humans...typical), becomes the one who preserves the Hive Queen and struggles to find a place for her to live and breed. Ender has come full circle, and is the Hive Queen's rescuer and savior--because he understands her now.
The Piggies are the next beings with whom misunderstanding causes fear and conflict. They *planted* that scientist! The humans assume that the man was cruelly tortured and murdered. The Piggies assumed that they were bestowing on him the highest honor, by "planting" him. It is not until both sides communicate and understand each other that the matter is cleared up...and that's when real friendship can begin. They were never enemies, not really. The attempt to hide information in the computer was a well-intentioned but misguided strategy to prevent more "plantings." But hiding the truth is never the way..."the truth will set you free," you know? And it does. When the truth about the Piggies and the humans comes out, that's when the real friendship begins.
And finally, the relationship of the trees, the Piggies, and the rest of the creatures on that planet: plants and animals are LINKED for survival. They are really "one body" on that planet. BRILLIANT. Brilliant. One cannot operate without another; they cannot reproduce without one another, cannot survive. They are truly one body.
Communication, honesty, truth, and interdependence.
Mystics of every religious faith have emphasized the "oneness" of things. "Ender's Game" is a parable of the truth of interdependence and connection. When I read those first few Ender stories (EG and Speaker), I hear the resonances of Christian liturgy: "one bread, one body." "One body, one spirit in Christ." Those lines float over the text for me, because those novels incarnate the principles of divine oneness--for me.
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It just occurred to me that if you take "Ender's Game" (and "Speaker") along with "Worthing" you've pretty much got the gospel message. And you've got the advanced version--not the milk for babes version, at that.
Am I just nuts or has anyone else seen the same sorts of things in these novels?
I could very well be nuts. Grad school does that to you. Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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Personally, I like to think we are all a little nuts. It's the way we were made. whats funny, is I didn't see it for the longest time. the Gospel message imbedded in all of OSCs books. (well maybe not ALL of them, but you know what I mean). I didn't realize it until a year or so ago, a freind was borrowing them and reading them (I own most of them) and she says to me one day, "these are good stories, but did you ever notice you can translate them all into stories from christianity? Of course I was like... uh... lemme read that again? But your right, its definitely their, intentional or not.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Permitheus: Personally, I like to think we are all a little nuts. It's the way we were made. whats funny, is I didn't see it for the longest time. the Gospel message imbedded in all of OSCs books. (well maybe not ALL of them, but you know what I mean). I didn't realize it until a year or so ago, a freind was borrowing them and reading them (I own most of them) and she says to me one day, "these are good stories, but did you ever notice you can translate them all into stories from christianity? Of course I was like... uh... lemme read that again? But your right, its definitely their, intentional or not.
I like to think that God and the angels spend a lot of time laughing with us, not at us, hoping that eventually we'll get the joke, too. Posts: 25 | Registered: Apr 2007
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LoveOfWorthing,It was a pleasure to read your comments. The Worthing stories have always been my very favorite, and my book is about to fall apart from my rereadings of it. I'm even copying and printing out your comments to put with my book because I feel you have given me some excellent things to ponder.
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005
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Wow, I'm shocked that a high school teacher would have told a student that ANY novel he was reading for pleasure "sucked"! Let alone, of course, one of Card's. As if there is too much time spent reading by young people.
quote: My reading of "Ender's Game" focuses on its insistence that all creation is a oneness, and that, despite outward appearances, all of us are linked together. In Christian parlance, this concept of "oneness" and codependency is sometimes called "the Body of Christ." And "Ender's Game" makes the point that there really is no "enemy," but various parts of the whole attempting to survive in the ways they are naturally adapted to do. The misunderstanding of this principle is what causes conflicts. Look at any war--ANY war--and if you dig down deep enough, it stands up. EG makes this point very forcefully.
Honestly, this is the kind of thing that can be taken too far. Yes, every human is made in the image of God, and made to be in community with God and man (and woman, of course). But man is also fallen, and there are conflicts in the world that go well beyond simple misunderstanding or maladaptation to tough circumstances.
The ending of Ender's game, where Ender finds the Hive Queens memories and hears the sad realization "The humans have not forgiven us" is certainly one of the saddest lines I've read, expressing sorrow at a lost chance for reconciliation.
Not everyone who commits a crime or every group that spread aggression seeks or cares about reconciling, though, and to pretend that they do risks allowing much further bloodshed. Ghadi, for instance, was absolutely divine in turning away British occupation, but had Churchill adopted his tactics, the world would likely still be barbaric and brutal.
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So I teach Card whenever possible. ![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
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But your right, its definitely their, intentional or not.
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