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Author Topic: Untold stories: Speculation into the characters of the Enderverse.
sylvrdragon
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*Spoilers*

As the title suggests, this is a speculative thread about as-of-yet unwritten stories of the Ender Universe. In this thread, I would like to share, and hear opinions about various characters and what aspects of them might be story worthy.

As I said in the "Ender in Exile, Shadows in Flight" thread, I don't expect every character to have another story in them worth writing. Some are bound to lead normal uneventful (from the outside) lives that likely won't be very engaging. Some, however, I feel to have very much unfinished development. Some were set up in such a way that I just can't imagine leaving them untouched as the Enderverse progresses.

The first that comes to mind is Achilles Jr. I can't see this child developing into a villain, regardless of what his mother tries to teach him. Between Bean's and Petra's genes, and Anton's Key, I just can't see this child buying the propaganda that his mother is likely to feed him. Personally, I've always considered morality to be a logical conclusion; rocking the boat isn't generally worth it. Considering who this child is, I think it wouldn't take very long before he learned the real story about Achilles and systematically tuned out his mother's preachings on him. It's entirely possible that I don't understand the concepts of child development enough, but looking back at Ender's Shadow, Bean had every opportunity to become "Bad". More importantly though is that he never really WAS a child, and so I don't think the term "Child Development" really applies to these Anton's Key children.

If I had to pick one more Jeesh member that I wanted to know more about, it would be Crazy Tom. As it stands, we probably know less about him than any of the others, as he hasn't yet shown up in a short story on IGMS, or had his own novella ala-War of Gifts. I could probably write what we know about him on the back of my hand; and given my handwriting, that's not very much. He doesn't stand for stupid orders. He works well under pressure. He's British. That's about it.

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Tara
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quote:
Some are bound to lead normal uneventful (from the outside) lives that likely won't be very engaging.
I'd like to read that book.
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promiseadance
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Well, I'm a hardcore Bean fan, so more about him is always desired on my part.

As for other members of the Jeesh, I want more about Carn Carby. He seems a decent fellow, and his e-mails to Dumper in Shadow of the Giant were hilarious.

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.:{121}:.Scooter[SGT]
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Funny this. As for most people, Ender is my favorite character. However when it comes to the other untold stories, I actually would most want to hear the story of Captain, Colonel, Minister of Colonization: Hyrum Graff. To me, he has the most power of anyone in the books except for perhaps Peter. He also seems to play a role a lot. Starting with The Polish Boy, to Ender's Game, then all the way to Shadow of the Giant.
Now I know that Card really doesn't like the idea of other people writing his stories, or so he mentioned in an afterward of one of his audiobooks; but I actually enjoy writing my own story of Graff. Of course, if I were to complete such a work, I'd never try to publish it or anything, but I think it's good, what do you call it, FanFic?

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Xann.
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quote:
Originally posted by .:{121}:.Scooter[SGT]:
However when it comes to the other untold stories, I actually would most want to hear the story of Captain, Colonel, Minister of Colonization: Hyrum Graff.

In Mazer in prison there is alot more about Graff, shows him when he is really starting out, after reading that, i would be willing to read more about him.
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BandoCommando
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I would argue that Graff certainly had more power than Peter. He started out pulling all of the strings, even the ones that got Peter where he needed to be to assume the Hegemony (first in title, then in fact). Sure, Peter *thinks* he was responsible (as Locke) for Graff's appointment as ColMin, but Graff plays such a subtle game that I feel he orchestrated that in the first place.

This would make Graff particularly scared of someone like Bean, who is quick to see through shenanigans like this. This is true to his character's portrayal in the first Shadow book. Eventually, of course, he apparently learns to trust and rely on Bean as a reliable and smart ally groundside.

He is most certainly and intriguing character: it seems from "The Polish Boy" that he may have been involved in plotting Ender's conception from the time that John Paul was a young boy. Imagine how disappointed he must have been when the first two offspring of Ender's parents were so unsuitable for the job he needed!

I have also wondered if there were any other parents of battle school kids (or candidates, at least) that Graff was responsible in some way for getting them together...

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runninm4n
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quote:
Originally posted by sylvrdragon:
*Spoilers*




The first that comes to mind is Achilles Jr. I can't see this child developing into a villain, regardless of what his mother tries to teach him. Between Bean's and Petra's genes, and Anton's Key, I just can't see this child buying the propaganda that his mother is likely to feed him.

If the child is raised thinking that way then it is a good chance he will grow up thinking that no matter how intelligent he is. I mean look at all the people that believe in God. Everyone is born atheist.
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steven
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I bet my next 30 paychecks Mazer Rackham ISNīT gay. [ROFL]
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SteveRogers
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I would also be interested to read more history of the character of Graff. However, I think that the character works perfectly in the context of the stories as he is. Not everything needs to be explained. And I think his is the perfect role to leave mysterious.

Plus, he's got a pretty cool name. Hyrum. That's totally wicked.

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BlueWizard
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The most unresolved story to me is the fate of Bean after he takes flight with his kids. I can imagine him on the journey, suddenly confronted with taking care of kids that are mentally growing at an astronomical rate, while at the same time, Bean is physically growing to an unmanageable size.

How would the kids learn? What kind of mischief would they get up to? How much of their fate would Bean tell them and when? What happens when Beans size literally becomes unmanageable?

As some point, while still mentally very strong, I would think Bean would become physically disabled, then it would be the kids taking care of the parent. I picture Bean moving around in a hover-chair trying to keep a pack of precocious kids in line. Kids who, do to their better environment, were quickly able to outwit their father. I can only imagine the challenges he faced.

Then at some point, they would have had to stop for supplies. How would they manage that if Bean wasn't physically able to get around, nor to physically endure gravity?

I fantasize that Bean and his kids would develop a form of mental telepathy. I mean, they all have giant brains and Bean would have a 2x giant brain. So when the kids were planet-side, he would be able to keep in constant contact with them and assist them if they meet any unscrupulous business men.

I also fantasize that Jane (the computer program and Ender's companion) would assist Bean and his kids, but more in the background than she was with Ender. Still, Jane was the software that managed Enders, Beans, and the entire 'Fleets' investments. It would be impossible for Jane to not know about Bean, and knowing Ender so well, it would seem impossible that Jane would ignore Bean when he or his kids were in need of help.

That to me is the most fascinating untold story, and from what I've heard, we are only going to get the slightest hint of what happened during that time in the new 'Shadows in Flight'.

It really bothers me that Bean is simply going to fade from existence in the background, without us having some further sense of his life and his fate.

The second most interesting is what happened to Ender and Valentine during 3,000 years of space fight?

Steve/bluewizard

[ March 16, 2008, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: BlueWizard ]

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DDDaysh
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My interest is almost solely on the "lost child" Randy/Achilles whatever you call him. What will a bean child be like thinking that Achilles was his father and growing up with a hero worshipping mother... YIKES!
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JLGpepe
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I would like a book about Graff as well. I've thought perhaps he had something to do with Bean's "creation". Maybe he was behind some of the financing for the researching.
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.:{121}:.Scooter[SGT]
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quote:
Originally posted by JLGpepe:
I would like a book about Graff as well. I've thought perhaps he had something to do with Bean's "creation". Maybe he was behind some of the financing for the researching.

Interesting point. See, at first I thought that Graff knew nothing about Bean, Volescu, or Anton until Sister Carlota did her research. But there was a point where Anton refered to Graff as his "old friend" in Shadow of the Giant, I believe. How long could have have known Graff to call him an old friend? I would imagine that they didn't even meet until after the Formic war was over so that would be what, 8 or 10 years to from Shadow of the Hegemon to Shadow of the Giant?
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la.SOMA
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a story that i've always been interested in is valentine leaving earth. the conversations between her and peter and also the conversations with her parents that would follow seem like they would be great for an IGMS addition. maybe (and quite unlikely) even something to tack on at the beginning of ender in exile?
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DDDaysh
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Wow SOMA - I haven't even thought of that. You're right though, it would be interesting to hear, espescially since we have so many conflicting "versions" of what happened told from other characters through-out the series.
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mheath
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It's impossible to anticipate what a character's future is based on what you've read already. You're dealing with a work of fiction, and OSC can alter history to fit his new idea for a character.

I see this a lot with Bean. When I compare Game to Shadow, I see strong indiciations that OSC in NO way intended Bean to be as remarkable or intelligent as he was in comparison to Ender when Game was written. Obvious manifestations of Beans inferior intellect are kind of 'patched up' in Shadow, to fit with the 'new' Bean.

The same goes with any character. I'm just craving another Ender story - I think OSC could make effective use of stories revolving around anyone from Graff to Achilles Jr. to Carn Carby, to some random character you haven't heard of or thought of.

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LargeTuna
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I may be the only one, but the worst cliffhanger that i've been dying to find out about, that may never be resolved is the DESCOLADORES. I wish so much for another book/storie to be writen about them! [Big Grin]
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Timoty
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IGMS has a few stories - Bonzo's history, and Han Tzu's. They're in the same vein as Polish Boy, about Ender's father.

I'd like some more history of some of the jeesh and other Battle School characters, Crazy Tom or Fly Molo in particular.

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BlueWizard
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MHeath,

While you are right, I don't think Card needs to 'alter history to fit his new idea' because much of what needs to happen in not history in the sense that it is not written yet.

What he needs to do is not create new history or alter existing history, but fill in the gaps in the existing history. Depending on which story we are referring to, there are thousands of years of history in which any thing can happen. All OSC needs to do is make the necessary things happen in those vast expanses of unwritten history.

As far as the Bean story vs the Ender story, I really don't see any conflicts that can't be explained by perspective. Bean saw the event from a completely different perspective than Ender, and things that caught Bean's eye and were important and significant to him, we not necessarily the same as those of Ender's.

You can take any two people who experienced the same event, and they will certainly recount the event differently. It will be the same story, but what each person considers significant and what each person chooses to emphasize will be about as different as the story of Bean vs the story of Ender.

OSC even said that is why the stories are slightly different, because each is telling the same story from the perspective of a different person. To use your example, Ender doesn't fully or consciously see Bean extreme intelligence because he is seeing from a different perspective.

We see this intelligence in Bean's story because we are now seeing it from being infinitely more knowledgeable perspective. In that light, I see no inconsistencies between the Ender story and the Bean story.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard

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la.SOMA
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i think i would also like to read something dealing with olhado's laser accident.
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Clandestineguitarplayer
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I have always been a die-hard Peter fan. I think he was just demonized by Enders' childish perception of him as a murdering, caniving mini-Hitler. Of course he was jealous, and there was definitely much disdain in his actions, but the way everything all played out I think Ender's perception of him is warped by the severe contrast you find in Valentine. A kind of so good he looks so bad effect. And I cringe at how all throughout the ender books ender is terrified of the "Peter" side of him. If he were more like Peter he wouldnt have had his hair fall out and crumble to dust, he would be the ultimate ruler of the Galaxy! And now that he IS Peter, we will be able to see how Ender should have been. Thats how I think the next books should go down... [Big Grin]


Just my onion though.

CGP

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Clandestineguitarplayer
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P.s. Crazy Tom is an ideal character because he is in fact a British man named Tom just like... Ahem... Me... Now we just gotta say he is a guitar player and we will be in business! [Big Grin]
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mr_porteiro_head
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I was disappointed when Peter turned out to be far less brutal and tyrannical in the Shadow series. I always imagined him to be more lik Mikhail from Songmaster.
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Clandestineguitarplayer
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Ha ha ha... I love Peter... He reminds me of me when I was younger... Those were the days... I remember going out into the woods and skinning squirrels alive... Gone are the days where boys will be boys, I do that now and I get a counsellor and a psychiatrist!!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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I want to learn more about the Parents, I mean I'm sure they had a could have written a few books on parenting. " Our kids saved the World twice, how about yours?" "Saving the World one Kid at a Time."

I'd like to know the out come of Theresa's research and what exactly was John Pauls job in the Hegemony. Plus we have the whole

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CRash
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*Still holding out for a story about Syfte*
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naledge
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I would actually like to see a story or series done about the decision(s) to have a human fleet strike the bugger homeworlds.

Also, I know that they have "Command School" and "Tactical School", but what about a "Flight" School? For some reason I would be interested in hearing the stories about the people that the International Fleet selected or to leave everything behind for the defense of humanity.

just my two...

nal

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All4Nothing
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Wow, there are alot of really good story ideas here. I'm not used to seeing alot of feedback from people about Ender's life and times. Actually, before coming here I spoke to exactly one other person who knew Ender's Game and loved it with my passion.

I'm excited to see Ender governing a colony that worships him as a hero while he still feels like the biggest villian in the universe. Glad to know it's coming.

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Clandestineguitarplayer
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Uh... Read the rest of the books dude... It happened... Read Speaker for the Dead. You will probably love it... P.s. welcome! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
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All4Nothing
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quote:
Originally posted by Clandestineguitarplayer:
Uh... Read the rest of the books dude... It happened... Read Speaker for the Dead. You will probably love it... P.s. welcome! [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

LoL....I've read all of the books in the series multiple times my friend. Ender was by no means still considered a hero in Speaker. I think you didn't understand what I was saying. [Smile]
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Clandestineguitarplayer
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Oh ok, I was thinking you hadnt read the books and you were excited to see what happened and were waiting for a sequel...
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All4Nothing
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LoL....I see how that happend. I really wasn't very clear about what I was thinking. I just finally completed my collection last year when I found "First Meetings" in a small book store/exchange place. Course, I come here and find out that I'm now one book short of complete again..."Weapons of War", I believe it's called.
Thanks for the welcome btw!

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T:man
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hee hee hee onion lol
what about a story about the stupid kids in battle school like one that failed

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CRash
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quote:
Originally posted by All4Nothing:
Course, I come here and find out that I'm now one book short of complete again..."Weapons of War", I believe it's called.

Eh? Did I miss something?
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All4Nothing
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quote:
Originally posted by CRash:
quote:
Originally posted by All4Nothing:
Course, I come here and find out that I'm now one book short of complete again..."Weapons of War", I believe it's called.

Eh? Did I miss something?
Oops! It's actually called "War of Gifts"....sorry, I was in a hurry and procrastinated the research... [Wall Bash]
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bootjes
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quote:
Originally posted by LargeTuna:
I may be the only one, but the worst cliffhanger that i've been dying to find out about, that may never be resolved is the DESCOLADORES. I wish so much for another book/storie to be writen about them! [Big Grin]

hear hear!
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bootjes
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could han zu be the founder of Path?
(Han Fei Tzu being named after him?
I know Card said it was coincidence but still. . .

And the godspoken are some other form of Antons key made by this evil doctor what's his name of shadow of the giant.

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CRash
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Hot Soup (Han Tzu) couldn't be the founder of Path because Path was just a colony a couple of hundred years old in Children of the Mind. Hot Soup lived three thousand years before that timeframe; I believe OSC said it was just a coinicidence that both he and Han Fei-Tzu shared a name.

But it could be possible that the idea of making "slave geniuses" evolved from a concept similar to Anton's Key. I highly doubt that Anton himself had anything to do with it, though.

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scifibum
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Don't forget, Ender lived through all that time - Han Tzu could have too.
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bootjes
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I highly doubt that Anton himself had anything to do with it, though. [/QB][/QUOTE]


I meant Volescu

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CRash
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quote:
Originally posted by bootjes:
I meant Volescu

Oh, of course. But I don't think he would be the root cause, it's too much of the interconnected fanfic effect, IMO. That's just my personal thoughts, however.

On Hot Soup and Han Fei-Tzu possibly being related, OSC clarified this a while ago in this thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Orson Scott Card:
cmc: No relation between the two Han Tzus in the Ender series. It was a horrible coincidence. Believe it or not, I named Han Tzu in Ender's Game solely so his nickname would be Hot Soup. Then I found out afterward that the real pronunciation of "Tzu" sounds nothing like soup.

Then, years later, I met a man in a bookstore in Raleigh (or was it Chapel Hill?) who pointed me to both Li Qing-jao (a woman poet whom he had translated) and the traditional figure Han Fei-tzu. I ended up using both names, without EVER realizing that I had already used Han Tzu in Ender's Game. You see, I don't reread my own work very often (after all, I don't want to be influenced by such a miserable and evil hack writer) and my memory, especially for names, isn't all that good anyway. When I realized what I had done, I was so frustrated: With all the possible names in China, I have to use the same one twice? Aaaargh.


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la.SOMA
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it would be awesome to read some of the interactions between malu and jane. apparently malu knew enough of jane's situation to arrange to have some of the old computer kept online.

COTM also mentions that jane had supporters on a planet called "outback." i'd like to know more about them as well!

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T:man
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Lol reading my 2nd post ever is fun, what I would like to see is, someone who is chosen to go to battle school but is iced out, like th kid who was like a fart in the room. Hee hee [Razz]
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sylvrdragon
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Maybe even the story of Pinual; the only Battle School student to commit suicide (EG, Intro of Chapter 6. Page number may vary depending on version). Though, if I remember correctly, from the Afterword to "Memories of my Head" From Maps in a Mirror, OSC has something against suicide stories. Of course... he violated his own pet peeve once. Might he not do it again?
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tnh723
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I'd vote for Fly Molo. he's Filipino and its nice to have someone from my country represented in the Jeesh. (thank you Mr. OSC)

It was also very nice that Bean & Co. made it to the Philippines to plan stuff out against Achilles.


awesome thread, I have all the books and you guys have just inspired me to read em all up again. :-)

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T:man
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Yah me too! I love to express my love for th pinoy!
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tnh723
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speaking of w/c, w/o giving too many spoiler's, one of Bean's kids have the distinction of bearing that nationality due to peculiar circumstance :-)


all in all, the multi-national diversity of the battle school kids was one of the strongest and most fascinating aspects of the stories.

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ladyjedi
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This is my first post here so forgive me if I sound like a total newbie. After FINALLY finishing "Shadow of the Giant" (it's only taken me a year between two jobs and two young kids at home), the two stories I want to know are: Bean's final fate and what happens to the nineth child. I have a feeling that I will not get the cure I so desire for a character that I just absolutely adore. To me, for the characters I get really attached to over time, I like having the final piece to the story.
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la.SOMA
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quote:
Originally posted by sylvrdragon:
Maybe even the story of Pinual; the only Battle School student to commit suicide (EG, Intro of Chapter 6. Page number may vary depending on version).

now that you mention this, i remember being confused by the random name that was tossed into the story and then writing "pinual" down in my notebook.

i would also really like to read about him (or her?). maybe the story could exclude the characters suicide being that we know that is the obvious conclusion.

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