FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » A question about the First Meetings novelette.

   
Author Topic: A question about the First Meetings novelette.
Colonel Graff
Member
Member # 11872

 - posted      Profile for Colonel Graff   Email Colonel Graff         Edit/Delete Post 
I've been thinking.

Jane was just a program (one out of many) that helped Ender solve his taxes.

How did the program come to evolve?

How come other programs like it didn't come to evolve?

Was it just because of the Hive Queen?

Posts: 50 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes.
This question is answered fairly definitively by the text.

The buggers basically made the program into an electronic version of a Hive Queen, at which point it achieved sentience.

Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
Yup. As was explained in Xenocide, Jane was a given an aiua (aka soul) by the Hive Queens. Also, even before that, she started out as the Fantasy Game, which was perhaps the most intelligent and intuitive computer program in existence.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Grinwell
Member
Member # 12030

 - posted      Profile for Grinwell           Edit/Delete Post 
The Hive Queen mentioned that Jane was a very powerful aiua comparable to the the Hive Queens themselves. It makes sense that Jane is able to control millions of computers similar to how the Hive Queens control their Workers.
Posts: 27 | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by neo-dragon:
Yup. As was explained in Xenocide, Jane was a given an aiua (aka soul) by the Hive Queens. Also, even before that, she started out as the Fantasy Game, which was perhaps the most intelligent and intuitive computer program in existence.

Not precisely. Her origin as an aiua lies with the buggers, but her memories extend to before she was created- so in the sense that the mind game forms her earliest memories, then your right, but in the sense that "she" was the mind game, your wrong.

It's further implied that the software for the mind game and for the handling of Bean's research programs was the place in which Jane's auia first was able to take control of the philotic twines and use the computer codes as a mark of her existence. She had been introduced into the network prior to that, during the third invasion, but may have spent some time bouncing around with no traction- it wasn't until a totally autonomous program was developed that she was able to take control of it- that program being the mind game and funding software.

Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
I absolutely refuse to give Bean any credit for Jane. I loathe the insidious, omnipresent fingers of that mutant freak's "brilliance."
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by neo-dragon:
Yup. As was explained in Xenocide, Jane was a given an aiua (aka soul) by the Hive Queens. Also, even before that, she started out as the Fantasy Game, which was perhaps the most intelligent and intuitive computer program in existence.

Not precisely. Her origin as an aiua lies with the buggers, but her memories extend to before she was created- so in the sense that the mind game forms her earliest memories, then your right, but in the sense that "she" was the mind game, your wrong.

It's further implied that the software for the mind game and for the handling of Bean's research programs was the place in which Jane's auia first was able to take control of the philotic twines and use the computer codes as a mark of her existence. She had been introduced into the network prior to that, during the third invasion, but may have spent some time bouncing around with no traction- it wasn't until a totally autonomous program was developed that she was able to take control of it- that program being the mind game and funding software.

The way I see it, the fantasy game/investment program is Jane's mind. The auia called forth by the Hive Queens is her soul. The computer network linked together by the ansibles is her body. Jane was not truly alive until all three of these parts of her being were intact.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I absolutely refuse to give Bean any credit for Jane. I loathe the insidious, omnipresent fingers of that mutant freak's "brilliance."

Are you being serious? If so, please elaborate.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BandoCommando
Member
Member # 7746

 - posted      Profile for BandoCommando           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Orincoro:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I absolutely refuse to give Bean any credit for Jane. I loathe the insidious, omnipresent fingers of that mutant freak's "brilliance."

Are you being serious? If so, please elaborate.
I'm curious, too.
Posts: 1099 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
I really, really don't like Nu-Bean. I dislike almost everything about him, and dislike even more the contortions that were necessary to fit his swollen mutant head into the Ender books.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 7625

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum         Edit/Delete Post 
Not buying Anton's Key or the weirdness of an infant who can act in paranoid self interest? Prowl the air ducts of the battle school with impunity? Grow eight feet tall immune to centuries-hence hormone and genetic therapy techniques, not to mention organ replacement? Smarter than a truckload of prodigies?

I gotta say, I liked the part where he joined up with the Delphikis. Made me feel squishy.

Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Synesthesia
Member
Member # 4774

 - posted      Profile for Synesthesia   Email Synesthesia         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I really, really don't like Nu-Bean. I dislike almost everything about him, and dislike even more the contortions that were necessary to fit his swollen mutant head into the Ender books.

Hehehehe. Nu-Bean
One has to admit that that is a VERY annoying plot devise. I don't know what it's called. It's like in Forest Gump when he's dancing around in braces and that's how Elvis invents his pelvis dance or how smiley faces were invented.
It's annoying... [Mad]

Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zotto!
Member
Member # 4689

 - posted      Profile for Zotto!   Email Zotto!         Edit/Delete Post 
Aw man, I actually love Bean and all the weird ways he had a hand in things, heh. (Then again, I actively enjoy all that stuff in Forrest Gump, Syn! *grin*) I think his growth from self-centered street kid to someone willing to take responsibility for soldiers and, more importantly, Petra and his family, was great.

I just wish they coulda left the name of the first book 'Urchin'.

Posts: 1595 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Orincoro
Member
Member # 8854

 - posted      Profile for Orincoro   Email Orincoro         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I really, really don't like Nu-Bean. I dislike almost everything about him, and dislike even more the contortions that were necessary to fit his swollen mutant head into the Ender books.

What actually annoyed me the most was that he was written much smarter in Ender's Shadow than he was in the later books. I chalked that up to OSC running out of ways of showing his genius, (and getting bored of writing him) which is why he began to resort to just *saying* he was a genius over and over again with no actual proof- I also think OSC got a bit tired of him too. It's tough when an author blows a character out of all proportion, but continues to write them into books. It's kind of like Patricia Cornwell's characters, who, after the first 5 books or so, all became so wealthy and powerful that she had to find other, weirder ways of making them impressive or striking- they became cartoon characters eventually.

David Weber has an interesting approach to this problem- many of his books feature awesomely capable and powerful characters in extreme situations, so he usually seems to set an arc of progress for the character or action that is bound to end at a particular point. No farther do the characters progress, but then OSC doesn't seem to plan his novels in anything like the way Webber does.

Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrSquicky
Member
Member # 1802

 - posted      Profile for MrSquicky   Email MrSquicky         Edit/Delete Post 
Everyone, except for Graff and Mrs. Wiggin, is stupid in the post-ES Shadow series books.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ricree101
Member
Member # 7749

 - posted      Profile for ricree101   Email ricree101         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I absolutely refuse to give Bean any credit for Jane. I loathe the insidious, omnipresent fingers of that mutant freak's "brilliance."

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who feels that way, although I'm not sure I'd express it quite so strongly.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2