FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Discussions About Orson Scott Card » Alvin, Calvin, Joseph Smith

   
Author Topic: Alvin, Calvin, Joseph Smith
Emeline
New Member
Member # 12088

 - posted      Profile for Emeline           Edit/Delete Post 
Hello,
I am new to this forum and I'm not sure if this has been discussed anywhere. I am familiar with the fact that the Alvin Maker books are based on the life of Joseph Smith. Not being Mormon myself, I did some very preliminary research. I'm not trying to be critical of Joseph Smith in any way, but the information I found on Wikipedia (not the most trustworthy source, I know) led me think that perhaps Alvin AND Calvin's trajectories were influenced by Joseph Smith's story. Calvin as the darker side of Smith's history and Alvin as the light, spiritual side?

Posts: 2 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
Calvin is definitely supposed to be a mirror of Alvin, even down to their names.

What in the life of Joseph Smith do you think was the inspiration of what parts of Calvin?

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dogbreath
Member
Member # 11879

 - posted      Profile for Dogbreath           Edit/Delete Post 
I read the Alvin Maker series fairly ignorant of the fact it was based on Joseph Smith. (I had heard it was some sort of Mormon allegory, much like the Homecoming series)

Part of the problem is that, while I've read parts of the Book of Mormon, I have practically no idea who Joseph Smith was other than skimming a wiki article. If anyone could recommend a good biography* I'd be pleased.

*Preferably secular, though I'll take a Mormon one so long as it's written objectively.

Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post 
I recommend Robert V. Remini's book Joseph Smith, published by Penguin Lives. It is secular.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zotto!
Member
Member # 4689

 - posted      Profile for Zotto!   Email Zotto!         Edit/Delete Post 
Richard Bushman's Rough Stone Rolling is one of the best biographies I've ever read. The author is a believer, but maintains a very high standard of objective scholarship.

http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Smith-Rough-Stone-Rolling/dp/1400042704

Posts: 1595 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rainfox
Member
Member # 12081

 - posted      Profile for Rainfox   Email Rainfox         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree, there are some very strong similarities between the lives of Alvin and Joseph Smith. Most of all the Three Witnesses and Eight Witnesses of the golden plates/golden plow, and the founding of a 'religious' town in the frontier of Illinois/Noisy River.

Interestingly, Joe used stones for scrying treasure underground. Al was a doodlebug (among other things) and had an affinity for stone (and stuff).

Very cool, I never made the connection

Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brian J. Hill
Member
Member # 5346

 - posted      Profile for Brian J. Hill   Email Brian J. Hill         Edit/Delete Post 
Ditto on the Rough Stone Rolling recommendation. I know that OSC is an avid reader of Mormon history, and I see the Alvin series not as a "re-telling" per se, but as a fantasty reconception of the historical events surrounding the life of Joseph Smith.
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Emeline
New Member
Member # 12088

 - posted      Profile for Emeline           Edit/Delete Post 
To Mr. Porteiro: I guess in the Wikipedia article there was a fair amount of darkness in Smith's life. The business with the women for instance. In the Alvin books we see Alvin himself as a monogamist, while Calvin is portrayed as the heartbreaker. Additionally, both Calvin and Alvin are described in the books as potential Makers. Their knacks are similar, perhaps even the same. What is makes the difference between the brothers is how they use them. Again, I don't consider myself to be an expert on Joseph Smith in any way. It was a theory that came to me while reading the article.

[ June 10, 2009, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Emeline ]

Posts: 2 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rodger Brown
Member
Member # 11476

 - posted      Profile for Rodger Brown   Email Rodger Brown         Edit/Delete Post 
My understanding is that several church scholars maintain the wikipedia articles to keep out the rebel rousers and try to keep information as accurate as can be. It's pretty well known among believers that some of things in Smith's life are a bit strange but so are the Mormons in general.

Here is an excerpt of the history of Joseph Smith from lds.org or found in The Pearl of Great Price a part of the standard works of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1

The Alvin Maker series highlights parts of Joseph Smiths life but I don't draw too many parallels.

In real life Joseph was very very close with his family including his brothers in fact Hyrum Smith may have been his closest friend and ally and was even murdered with him 165 years ago this month.

Posts: 143 | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Black Pearl
Member
Member # 11788

 - posted      Profile for The Black Pearl   Email The Black Pearl         Edit/Delete Post 
Didnt card say (here) that he wasnt conciously basing Alvin Maker off Joseph Smith?
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sean Monahan
Member
Member # 9334

 - posted      Profile for Sean Monahan   Email Sean Monahan         Edit/Delete Post 
Written by OSC:

"Any analogies to Mormon ideas in the Ender books are entirely unconscious and unintended. When I do such things deliberately - as a sort of wink to those who get the joke - it's very obvious and needs no confirmation from me (i.e., the Homecoming series taking their plot from the Book of Mormon; the Alvin books being tied to Joseph Smith's life)."

Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2