posted
I've been searching the web site, and haven't seen any updates or anything. Finished all the books (as they come out) biting my nails waiting for the next Ender book. This is my favorite series and would love to see more on the way.
Posts: 10 | Registered: Jan 2005
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"Mr. Orson Scott Card writes: "Shadows in Flight" begins with the death of Bean, then follows his children as they join with neo-Peter and neo-Valentine/Jane in trying to solve the problem of the Descolada planet. Since I haven't solved the problem of the Descolada planet myself, I have no idea how the story will actually go. But the book is a series-tying-up sequel to the Shadow series AND the Speaker series.
– November 03, 2010 1:27 PM"
/: he spoiled it
Posts: 461 | Registered: Nov 2010
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Why kill off bean? Wasn't it stated that he would continue to grow and could live in zero G indefinitely as a huge brain and be fed intravenously? I always thought that was a pretty cool idea.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Nothing can really grow indefinitely, at least not at the rate that Bean is. The ship has to have a finite amount of space. Even feeding him intravenously, how much "food" would it take to keep him alive? His brain alone would probably burn massive amounts of calories. And even in zero-g his heart can only pump blood so far. Human physiology can only tolerate so much up-scaling.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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valesku said that it would be possible to just be a massive brain, how the brain would interact with people, computers etc idk, but having only the brain reduces the space needed.
But you need gravity on a ship so your bones don't weaken. Bean has kids and he has hope that they might get a cure one day. Whats the point of a cure if they have bones made of jelly?
Posts: 11 | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote: Nothing can really grow indefinitely, at least not at the rate that Bean is. The ship has to have a finite amount of space. Even feeding him intravenously, how much "food" would it take to keep him alive? His brain alone would probably burn massive amounts of calories. And even in zero-g his heart can only pump blood so far. Human physiology can only tolerate so much up-scaling.
Ok not indefinitely forever, but at relativistic speeds, he could grow at least long enough to cross over into the speaker storyline, also in zero G, and as JUST a brain/head, a lot of the problems you mention disappear, you don't need a heart, machinery can take care of this, size isn't a major issue considering the size and resources on board colony ships etc, they would be easily capable of supporting a large brain. I think this was the situation hypothesised in one of the shadow books, it's not like it's my own stupid theory. Think of a brain the size of a room or a house. Another supermind like Jane or a hive mind, but human, and constantly getting smarter. I'm surprised OSC didn't go with this idea, it's pretty interesting to me anyway, and he was the one who suggested it in the first place.
quote: But you need gravity on a ship so your bones don't weaken. Bean has kids and he has hope that they might get a cure one day. Whats the point of a cure if they have bones made of jelly?
Easy. You have a rotating section on board the ship like in battle school, or you simply turn the gravity on or off in areas of the ship. This technology has been in the ender universe since book 1.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Just because being a disembodied brain sounds bad to us doesn't mean that death is preferable. Don't underestimate the instinct for survival. Besides, maybe Bean would enjoy being free merely to think. Lets not forget that there may be other motivations for staying alive, coming up with a cure for his children for example. If he was connected somehow to an Ansible his existence could be just as fulfilling as Janes, I wouldn't consider it "lingering". Why NOT keep him alive is an equally valid question. The possibilities for his character are jsut reaching their peak imo.
Perhaps OSC does feel that the character has run it's course, this seems obvious given the plot outline. The whole idea of my topic is that I don't think it has. Fair enough if people are determined to disagree but I've not heard a decent reason to kill him off so far.
Posts: 15 | Registered: Dec 2008
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What about his kids, well by time he dies they will be plenty old enough to take care of themselves, afterall just like Bean who managed to do the impossible at so young an age....
Besides his children the only other person Bean has is Ender who may or may not be alive while Bean is (from Beans point of view)
So his kids are old enough to take care of themselves rather well, his wife is dead, and he is dying a slow and painful growth related death...
I concluded it's better for him just to die, than continue to make him suffer through another book, but he only has to if the author wants him, which is kinda sick, but the dominoes have already been tipped so Bean MUST die for the story to make sense, expecially including the fact that Bean's stories are more logical and more reality based than Enders so tere won't be a magical last second cure ):
As for the cure, I don't think it will be able to change the size of the kids, the body grows to make more room for more brain, so turning that off removes their enchanced learning, which is fine I supose, but their size wouldn't shrink because they already have an enlarged brain .___.
-blabla bla bye
Posts: 461 | Registered: Nov 2010
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I think that Bean should have the same fate Ender has in Children of the Mind. Being turned into a single cell until his children find the descolada that turns of his Anton's Key gene, in which case Jane would bring him back. Of course, this implies that he would have to have met her before hand, which is entirely possible because the Shadows series came after the original, so OSC had no knowledge of any such confrontation. I would personally prefer it if Bean lived to meet Ender, though. It would be pretty awesome, a reunion after (i might be wrong about this one, im not syre) hundreds of years? or maybe decades. I read speaker of the mind when i was 8, so i dont really remember all the details.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Dec 2010
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I think its alright if Bean dies. As OSC has already let Ender die but given him pseudo-children, thru the miracle of outside space travel, Ender has people to carry on his story. It follows that Bean's story also come to an end but then continue on in his children. Allowing Bean to die creates a sort of symmetry between to two story lines. As far as Bean continuing on as large disembodied brain. It seems OSC would be fighting logic on every turn to make this possible. Given enough explanation I'm sure he could come up with reasons to almost any objection. He could make up all these advancements in cybernetics technology that he's never talked about before, even saying that Bean’s children developed them so that Bean's brain could be artificially sustained. These advancements could allow him to communicate through the computers and use the ship's sensory devices in order to see and hear like Jane does. But to be honest, I just don't think Bean would want to live on like that. By the end of his story Bean had gotten over his overpowering survival instinct and sacrificed his last few years of being with Petra to possibly save his children. That goal reached, his children grown enough to take care of themselves, he’s given the option to live on as a giant brain. It just doesn’t seem appropriate. It’s like making a monster out of him, the second most beloved character in the series. No, I think OSC would much prefer to give him a dignified death such as Ender had.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Dec 2010
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Count you're right ,but neither of their deaths are dignified, especially Ender's death because he didn't really die >;o and Bean most likely way of death would be heart failure... neither of them get to kick the bucket with swords drawn fighting an enemy or something cool like that.. Ender just poofs and Bean just ploofs* *not a spelling mistake, I mean something like plops XD
Posts: 461 | Registered: Nov 2010
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As much as I'd like to see this book, I'd rather have Master Alvin. That series has been going on longer than The Wheel of Time!
Posts: 326 | Registered: Apr 2005
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I just finished rereading the Shadow series, and I'm more excited for the book than ever, I feel that there isn't any real closure to Bean's life. It just ends. Kinda like how it says in the last chapter, the only monument to Bean is in Petra's heart. Everyone else gets something, a colony, a book, etc., but what does Bean get? I just feel... I'm not sure, depressed, but in an empathetic way. Go read the last chapter of Shadow of the Giant and you'll know what I mean; if you were as attached to Bean and Petra as I am, that is.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Mar 2009
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I signed up because I had to post my thoughts on the matter.
One thing we do know is that Bean's Children have to be able to make contact with Ender series before they are age 18-20. Given that they are in Null G that could give them a few more years but i'm pretty sure they would be placed around Neo Peter and Val's age. This means that Bean himself would somehow have to live that long as well for him to be cured (which he can, easily).
The Key is with Jane. Let us think back to what happened to Miro... After reading through the shadow series and going back to Ender's Series I read that and thought "Bean can be cured!"
What comes next could be a stretch but could happen, imo.
Bean has gone out until a cure is found, right? What would alert him that there would be a cure? Graff said he would make sure that they would alert him when the time came and at the time Graff WAS messing around with the Mind Game...
Is it a long stretch to say that Jane could be the program that would alert him? So this means that when Jane puts Miro in/out and he is cured she would make the connection that Bean could as well?
I would think that Bean and Children would then be contacted by Jane and brought In/Out to where everyone else is. This would cure them. I don't think Bean has to die nor does he have to suffer much.
Also his children would be cured during this process and they can do what is needed to help everyone.
Once again this is just what I've been thinking about this. I think it is very possible that OSC would kill off Bean since he is very, very close to his age of death already. Though I feel that he doesn't have to die!
In fact let us remember that Bean's first priority is to survive! He will do whatever it takes to survive until a cure is found. Even if it means becoming just a brain.
"I'm going to survive and once you know that there is nothing more to know about me." ~ Bean
quote:Originally posted by MSgtGunny: valesku said that it would be possible to just be a massive brain, how the brain would interact with people, computers etc idk, but having only the brain reduces the space needed.
But you need gravity on a ship so your bones don't weaken. Bean has kids and he has hope that they might get a cure one day. Whats the point of a cure if they have bones made of jelly?
OSC should retcon it so that Bean is Jane!!!
just kidding
Posts: 3 | Registered: Jan 2011
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