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Author Topic: First Meetings Meaning..
bsnrich
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I have read all the books in the Ender series except for "A War of Gifts," which is now sitting on my bed awaiting digestion. I just finished "First Meetings" and I am failing to understand it's relivence to the other novels. I see that Ender's history and those associated with him has been changed. I'm just failing to see "why" they have been changed in this small novel. On the cover's or on the flap's it makes no reference to this story being "an outsiders view" or "a quasi-universe look" to the Ender story. Nor do I understand the title. First Meetings with the bazaaro Enderverse? I see this is how his mother and father met, and how Jane came into his life but how does this apply when it's with bazaaro Ender? I'm just not getting it.
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Scott R
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What was changed? As far as I recall, none of the novels went into how Ender's parents met.
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Jeff C.
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quote:
I have read all the books in the Ender series except for "A War of Gifts," which is now sitting on my bed awaiting digestion.
I'm completely jealous. I really wish I had a book in this series that I hadn't read yet.
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Jeff C.
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Sorry for the double post, but I think you might be referring to the short story "Ender's Game", which was the original version of the novel. Ignore it. I don't know why they included it in the collection, but I skipped it, as should you.
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katdog42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
I'm completely jealous. I really wish I had a book in this series that I hadn't read yet.

That's EXACTLY what I thought!
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
I skipped it, as should you.

Totally disagree!
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Jake
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Sorry for the double post, but I think you might be referring to the short story "Ender's Game", which was the original version of the novel. Ignore it. I don't know why they included it in the collection, but I skipped it, as should you.

Why do you think that it should be skipped?
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Jeff C.
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Because we have the novel, which is an extension of the original short story and filled with much more detail. The short story is very good (admittedly, I've never read it, only skimmed it), but it essentially tells the exact same story, only with less back-story.

I also suggested skipping it because, in this particular instance, the OP seems to have been confused by it.

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rivka
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I like seeing friends' baby pictures.

I also like reading the original short story version of novels I enjoyed.

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Pepek
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Spot on, rivka.

I own one of the original first copies of the ender's game short story from 1985? I think.

it was interesting to see an earlier draft. I think I remember there being a touch of racism in there too that didn't make it to the novel either. fun stuff

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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by Pepek:

it was interesting to see an earlier draft. I think I remember there being a touch of racism in there too that didn't make it to the novel either. fun stuff

It's in one of the early versions of the book, too. Ender says something about Alai's ancestry by calling him a N-word. It's in the digital copy on the nook. It's not in the print version anymore, so when I read it in the digital copy I was shocked. They play it off like it was a joke, though, probably to show that racism no longer exist in the same way it used to, but it's still off-putting.
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MrSquicky
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No, Ender says that it response to a racist comment by Alai in order to demonstrate that Alai was being racist. It ties into the greater theme of Ender being able to see from others' perspective (and probably is meant to reinforce the idea that calling the Formics "buggers" impedes understanding them).
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neo-dragon
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Sorry for the double post, but I think you might be referring to the short story "Ender's Game", which was the original version of the novel. Ignore it. I don't know why they included it in the collection, but I skipped it, as should you.

Are you kidding? What kind of fan are you? That's a piece of sci-fi literary history.
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by neo-dragon:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Sorry for the double post, but I think you might be referring to the short story "Ender's Game", which was the original version of the novel. Ignore it. I don't know why they included it in the collection, but I skipped it, as should you.

Are you kidding? What kind of fan are you? That's a piece of sci-fi literary history.
Sorry, I didn't realize I was shouting blasphemy from the mountainside. Quick, everyone, grab the pitchforks!

Look, just because I don't want to read a summary version of a novel that I've already read doesn't make me a horrible fan. I would simply rather read the novel, that's all. You know, since it contains the same story, only with much more detail and backstory.

I do understand wanting to read the "historic" first version that eventually spawned the novel (there's certainly nothing wrong with that), but if contradictions bother or confuse you (like in the case of the OP), then you probably shouldn't read the short story.

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jongo05
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Back to the original topic. I really enjoyed First Meetings. The background that it gives you on Ender's parents and the long sight of the IF I found interesting. You see that his (and Peter's and Valentine's) parents aren't the people that their children see them as. I think the story of his meeting of Jane is if not anything else interesting.
Do these stories add essential content to the Enderverse? No. But I think they are a good, short read.

On closer view of your question. Look at the Novella as a draft of EG. It's really the first work that got OSC noticed big time, I think. You can see the changes he made, and appreciate them. The other stories are really good though [Smile]

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
Quick, everyone, grab the pitchforks!

Sorry, my pitchfork is in the shop.
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Jake
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quote:
Originally posted by Pepek:
I own one of the original first copies of the ender's game short story from 1985? I think.

The novel came out in '85. The short story was published in Analog in '77. I know this only because I tracked down a copy of the Analog issue to give to my fiancee a while back. When I presented it to her she said "Ooh, Robert Asprin!" in a "well, Robert Asprin's okay, and I'm trying to be enthusiastic about your gift because you're clearly very excited about giving it to me" sort of way. Card's name didn't even make the cover of that issue.

[ October 20, 2011, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Jake ]

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BlueWizard
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I absolutely loved First Meetings, and I think it very much adds worth while content to the Endverse.

John Paul Wieczorek, soon to be John Paul Wiggin and Ender's Father, was a genius of stunning proportion. At the age of five, we was able to out wit and out think the best the I.F. had to offer.

We see that genius again in Teacher's Pest, when John Paul meets his soon to be wife and the mother of Ender. Both genius of stunning proportion, but fate has conspired against them, though I will spare you the details.

That make the version of Ender's parents we see in the Ender Series all the more poignant. We see the degree to which they had to supress that genius and live only a fraction of their life potential for the sake of their children.

It actually hurts to think about the lives they could have had in a less oppressed world compared to the lives, comfortable as it may be, they had to live because of circumstances that conspired against them.

And, if you read First Meetings you see a little more humor in the interaction of the Wiggin's kids and their parents. They parents are massively smarter than their kids give them credit for, and they know massively more than they are letting on.

Like I said, once you see the genius Mr. and Mrs. Wiggin were capable of, you see how tragic their lives really were, though their kids, for all their genius, simply don't see it.

I think this filled out the Enderverse very nicely and gives us tremendous insight into Mr. and Mrs. Wiggin and the sacrifice they made.

As to the original Ender's Game short story, it is always worth reading for the historical significant alone. Who would imagine that what seemed a minor short story at the time, would be able to expand into the rich detailed universe that it has.

And, there is still a lot more story to tell. Any story needs a degree of conflict, call it the McGuffin if you will. I see room for tremendous conflict between Peter/Jane and Star Congress. I see potential for conflict as the try to resolve the mystery of the Driscolada planet. I see conflict between Faster Than Light Travel and Star Congress. I see conflict between Star Congress an the growing threat of Fromic expansion and Peter's alliance with the Formics.

Conflict abounds, and as long as their is conflict to be resolved, there is a story to be told.

I also found First Meetings - Investment Counselor to be a wonderful story. Interesting to see how Jane inserted herself into Ender's life. Especially since she didn't actually tell him the truth about who she was.

I've also speculated that while Jane was primarily and consciously with Ender, she was in the back ground managing and monitoring other member of Ender's crew, especially Bean. If she managed Bean's money like she managed Ender's then Bean and his kids are very very rich.

But a part of me wonders if Jane, in some fashion at some time, perhaps only in some small way, every contacted Bean, or offered him assistance? I'd like to think so, but I doubt that it was on the same level has she was present in Ender's life. Still, it is an intriguing thought.

Personally, I think the stories in First Meetings expanded the Enderverse for me in very significant ways.

Steve/bluewizard

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GentleGiant
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If this is the same short story collection I have, there are some seriously good short stories inside, so buy it even if you do not want to read the original Enders Game novella.
I cannot remember the name, but the incest one with the deformed baby monster REALLY creeped me out and a couple of them made me almost cry.

I had to stop lending people this book, because I was losing so many friends after they wouldnt give it back, I think I got through 5 copies before the lending ban.

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Scott R
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GG:

You're probably talking about 'Maps in a Mirror' which is a collection of OSC's early short stories, and includes 'Euminides in the Fourth Floor Lavoratory' (the deformed baby monster story).

'First Meetings' is a collection of three stories-- when John Paul Wiggin met the Fleet; when Theresa (sorry can't remember her last name) met John Paul; and when Ender met Jane.

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GentleGiant
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Actually, I do have Maps in a Mirror, which was sold as a 2 Book edition in the UK; this was a series of short stories sold under the "Enders Game" title at least 10-15 years before MiaM came out; and yes, that was the story I was thinking of.
My copy is 7,500 miles away, but I cannot think of a single "weak" story in the book

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott R:
GG:

You're probably talking about 'Maps in a Mirror' which is a collection of OSC's early short stories, and includes 'Euminides in the Fourth Floor Lavoratory' (the deformed baby monster story).

'First Meetings' is a collection of three stories-- when John Paul Wiggin met the Fleet; when Theresa (sorry can't remember her last name) met John Paul; and when Ender met Jane.

Ewwwww 'Euminides in the Fourth Floor Lavoratory'..... The only story that ever scared me enough to avoid going to the bathroom in the middle of the night. For about a week after I read it I used a stick to lift up the toilet seat to make sure nothing was in there. I was twelve.
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